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Third flag meeting fails, Ladakh incursion row set to escalate - Indian Express
At the meeting, sources said, it was expected that both sides would agree to move back an agreed distance from their respective face-off positions. The Indian side was to initiate the proposal and it was hoped that an agreement would be reached, setting the stage for further discussions during External Affairs Minister Salman Khurshids visit to China on May 9.
But the talks did not follow the script. It is reliably learnt that the Chinese side was not only cold to the proposal but went on to re-emphasise its earlier demands as a pre-condition to even considering a withdrawal.
These demands include removal of a second tent put up by Indian forces at the face-off site that, incidentally, came up after the Chinese troops put up their second tent to service their forward position.
The Chinese side was also clear that even if all conditions were met, it could consider simultaneous disengagement but was not in a position to assure removal of the tents from their current positions.
The next condition was to stop construction activities at Daulat Beg Oldie and at Chumar where a helipad is being built. Also, the Chinese side wanted some tin sheds at Fukche to be dismantled, all of which are aimed at strengthening Indian defences on the LAC.
The mood at the talks was clearly one of upping the ante with the Chinese side leaving little scope for any further negotiations at the local level, the sources said.
Much of these demands reflect the problems that the new border management agreement, proposed by China, seeks to address. While the Indian side is not against negotiating a new agreement, the Army has problems with certain sections calling for freezing troop levels on the LAC among other operational aspects.
New Delhi feels that the incursion is a way to force Indias hand on the agreement. India is, however, clear that it will not accept the suggestion of freezing troop levels at a time when it is planning a major expansion effort.
The war is coming..... it's time for Pakistan to mobilize to take back IOK and roll the Indians back to Haryana.
Delhi spies airstrip design in China tents
New Delhi, April 30: The Chinese have demanded the de-activation of two forward airstrips of the Indian Air Force (IAF) in the region where their troops have crossed over and set up a tented camp in what India says is 19km inside its own territory.
...
The Chinese military considers the re-activation of two advance landing grounds (ALGs) at Daulat Beg Oldi (DBO) and Fukche a threat because it increases the capability of Indian forces to deploy faster and in greater numbers.
None of the two airstrips can be used through the year for landing and take-off by fixed-wing aircraft. But they are used by helicopters.
DBO, at nearly 16,500ft, is a remote post to which the road link is tenuous at best. But its strategic location gives IAF aircraft capability to take-off in the direction of both the Siachen Glacier where Indian troops face the Pakistani Army and towards the Karakoram and Aksai Chin where Chinese forces are deployed.
DBO is 80km from Siachen. The location of DBO also allows the launch of platforms (such as unmanned aerial vehicles) to keep a watch on the Karakoram pass and the Khunjerab pass through which the Karakoram Highway runs between China and Pakistan.
China has huge investments in the Gilgit-Baltistan area of Pakistani Kashmir that India claims and their military engineers are known to be working there.
The re-activation of DBO in May 2008 was a hush-hush affair by India. I remember that none of our families and the families of the crew could be told where we were heading and we talked about it only after returning to Chandigarh, Air Marshal P.K. Barbora (retired) told The Telegraph this evening.
...
I recall that the Chinese asked for a flag-meeting immediately and objected to the landing but it was a political decision of the government to activate our forward landing grounds and we were executing it, said Barbora.
...
Barbora says that with the acquisition of new American C-130J Hercules transport aircraft that can land on and take off from dirt strips, the strategic importance of the ALGs has increased manifold.
Troops and supplies can now be transported to the front in shorter time and in larger numbers. They will also reduce the damage caused by air maintenance parachuting supplies in harsh weather. The Indian Air Force had also wanted to open another forward airstrip at Chushul but the plan was abandoned.
There may have been one of two possible reasons for this. Barbora said the terrain in Chushul was not appropriate, though it was used in the past. Another source said the IAF was forced to drop the plan because the Chinese objected and claimed ownership of a part of Chushul (also in eastern Ladakh).
In demanding the closure of the forward landing grounds, analysts in the Indian military believe, China is holding Indias border infrastructure development programme to ransom. Acceding to the demand would mean Antonys emphasis on the border programme will have to be shelved in certain sectors.
The IAF is now focused on developing Nyoma in Ladakh, said to be about 23km from the Line of Actual Control, as a forward base. Unlike DBO, where fixed-wing aircraft can land and take off but cannot be based, Nyoma will have hangars and the entire establishment that goes into sustaining and sheltering fighter aircraft.
The truth finally comes out: In May 2008, India initiated a forward policy against China by building structures in overlapping LAC, violating a tacit agreement. China warned but India ignored. China had a timid leader back then who cared more about Olympics than territorial integrity, we were also not yet ready because our border infrastructure was not yet completed. So the Indians thought they got away with stealing Chinese territory.
Five years later in 2013, China's border infrastructure is now complete and we can deploy main battle tanks to Ladakh, and we have Supreme Leader Xi Jinping in charge, so we are striking back against India. India is afraid but they are an arrogant Hindu civilization so they will not de-escalate or back down. This means war is inevitable.... PLA is ready to smash India into many smaller countries with our new power projection capabilities!
At the meeting, sources said, it was expected that both sides would agree to move back an agreed distance from their respective face-off positions. The Indian side was to initiate the proposal and it was hoped that an agreement would be reached, setting the stage for further discussions during External Affairs Minister Salman Khurshids visit to China on May 9.
But the talks did not follow the script. It is reliably learnt that the Chinese side was not only cold to the proposal but went on to re-emphasise its earlier demands as a pre-condition to even considering a withdrawal.
These demands include removal of a second tent put up by Indian forces at the face-off site that, incidentally, came up after the Chinese troops put up their second tent to service their forward position.
The Chinese side was also clear that even if all conditions were met, it could consider simultaneous disengagement but was not in a position to assure removal of the tents from their current positions.
The next condition was to stop construction activities at Daulat Beg Oldie and at Chumar where a helipad is being built. Also, the Chinese side wanted some tin sheds at Fukche to be dismantled, all of which are aimed at strengthening Indian defences on the LAC.
The mood at the talks was clearly one of upping the ante with the Chinese side leaving little scope for any further negotiations at the local level, the sources said.
Much of these demands reflect the problems that the new border management agreement, proposed by China, seeks to address. While the Indian side is not against negotiating a new agreement, the Army has problems with certain sections calling for freezing troop levels on the LAC among other operational aspects.
New Delhi feels that the incursion is a way to force Indias hand on the agreement. India is, however, clear that it will not accept the suggestion of freezing troop levels at a time when it is planning a major expansion effort.
The war is coming..... it's time for Pakistan to mobilize to take back IOK and roll the Indians back to Haryana.
Delhi spies airstrip design in China tents
New Delhi, April 30: The Chinese have demanded the de-activation of two forward airstrips of the Indian Air Force (IAF) in the region where their troops have crossed over and set up a tented camp in what India says is 19km inside its own territory.
...
The Chinese military considers the re-activation of two advance landing grounds (ALGs) at Daulat Beg Oldi (DBO) and Fukche a threat because it increases the capability of Indian forces to deploy faster and in greater numbers.
None of the two airstrips can be used through the year for landing and take-off by fixed-wing aircraft. But they are used by helicopters.
DBO, at nearly 16,500ft, is a remote post to which the road link is tenuous at best. But its strategic location gives IAF aircraft capability to take-off in the direction of both the Siachen Glacier where Indian troops face the Pakistani Army and towards the Karakoram and Aksai Chin where Chinese forces are deployed.
DBO is 80km from Siachen. The location of DBO also allows the launch of platforms (such as unmanned aerial vehicles) to keep a watch on the Karakoram pass and the Khunjerab pass through which the Karakoram Highway runs between China and Pakistan.
China has huge investments in the Gilgit-Baltistan area of Pakistani Kashmir that India claims and their military engineers are known to be working there.
The re-activation of DBO in May 2008 was a hush-hush affair by India. I remember that none of our families and the families of the crew could be told where we were heading and we talked about it only after returning to Chandigarh, Air Marshal P.K. Barbora (retired) told The Telegraph this evening.
...
I recall that the Chinese asked for a flag-meeting immediately and objected to the landing but it was a political decision of the government to activate our forward landing grounds and we were executing it, said Barbora.
...
Barbora says that with the acquisition of new American C-130J Hercules transport aircraft that can land on and take off from dirt strips, the strategic importance of the ALGs has increased manifold.
Troops and supplies can now be transported to the front in shorter time and in larger numbers. They will also reduce the damage caused by air maintenance parachuting supplies in harsh weather. The Indian Air Force had also wanted to open another forward airstrip at Chushul but the plan was abandoned.
There may have been one of two possible reasons for this. Barbora said the terrain in Chushul was not appropriate, though it was used in the past. Another source said the IAF was forced to drop the plan because the Chinese objected and claimed ownership of a part of Chushul (also in eastern Ladakh).
In demanding the closure of the forward landing grounds, analysts in the Indian military believe, China is holding Indias border infrastructure development programme to ransom. Acceding to the demand would mean Antonys emphasis on the border programme will have to be shelved in certain sectors.
The IAF is now focused on developing Nyoma in Ladakh, said to be about 23km from the Line of Actual Control, as a forward base. Unlike DBO, where fixed-wing aircraft can land and take off but cannot be based, Nyoma will have hangars and the entire establishment that goes into sustaining and sheltering fighter aircraft.
The truth finally comes out: In May 2008, India initiated a forward policy against China by building structures in overlapping LAC, violating a tacit agreement. China warned but India ignored. China had a timid leader back then who cared more about Olympics than territorial integrity, we were also not yet ready because our border infrastructure was not yet completed. So the Indians thought they got away with stealing Chinese territory.
Five years later in 2013, China's border infrastructure is now complete and we can deploy main battle tanks to Ladakh, and we have Supreme Leader Xi Jinping in charge, so we are striking back against India. India is afraid but they are an arrogant Hindu civilization so they will not de-escalate or back down. This means war is inevitable.... PLA is ready to smash India into many smaller countries with our new power projection capabilities!
