The "you are pro-Israel" accusation has lost its sting among Muslims

[Solomon2]

• Monday, August 15, 2016
• 
  Elder of Ziyon

The "you are pro-Israel" accusation has lost its sting among Muslims


Former saudi general Dr. Anwar Eshki (center, in striped tie) and other members of his delegation, meeting with Israeli Knesset members and others during a visit to Israel on July 22, 2016 (via twitter)

There was a fascinating report in MEMRI this week:

Over the past month, the Saudi press has featured a number of highly unusual articles harshly critical of the antisemitic discourse in Arab and Muslim society, and calling to avoid its generalizations regarding the Jews. The articles argued that Koranic passages against the Jews only applied to specific groups during specific time periods, and should not be applied to Jews in general. They added that blind hatred of Jews everywhere has prevented Arabs and Muslims from learning the lessons of Jewish experience and advancement.

It should be mentioned that these articles came against the backdrop of a heated debate in Saudi Arabia over the issue of normalizing relations with Israel, which erupted after a July 2016 visit to Israel by a Saudi delegation headed by Maj.-Gen. (ret.) Anwar Eshki, chairman of the Middle East Center for Strategic and Legal Studies in Jeddah, and the publication of photos of the delegation with Israeli politicians. While Eshki claimed that he represented only himself and that "official Saudi elements did not know of the meeting in advance, as it was of a personal nature" and was the result of an invitation by the Palestinian Authority, he stressed that "the kingdom does not prevent anyone from holding such visits." He also did not rule out indirect Israeli-Saudi intelligence cooperation as part of efforts to combat terrorism.[1]

The visit, which was seen as a Saudi step towards normalizing relations with Israel, sparked harsh criticism inside and outside the kingdom. Several hashtags attacking the visit were launched on social networks, including "Saudis Against Normalization."[2] Likely as a response to the criticism, the Saudi Foreign Ministry distanced itself from Eshki, arguing that "people like Anwar Eshki do not represent us, have no ties to any governmental elements, and do not reflect the positions of the Saudi government."[3]

However, despite this statement, and despite the Saudi regime's denial that the visit heralded normalization with Israel, the publication of Saudi articles attacking antisemitic discourse specifically at this time is no coincidence, and is likely meant to lay the groundwork for public acceptance in the country of normalized relations with Israel.​

The article goes on to include lengthy quotes from the Saudi articles attacking antisemitism.

Perhaps more fascinating is that Iran's state run Al Aram news agency decided to quote the MEMRI article nearly in full - in order to try to discredit the Saudi regime for being too pro-Jewish and too pro-Israel.

Accusing other Muslims of being pro-Israel is a standard weapon in the Islamic arsenal when trying to discredit a political opponent. Funny thing though: it no longer works.

You'll still see it here and there - Fatah and Hamas accuse each other of "collaborating" with Israel, Hezbollah will still use that rhetoric, and some Egyptian or Moroccan papers might show pictures of their rivals with Israelis, and Malaysian politicians still embrace that theme with gusto.

But the Sunni hate and fear of Shiites, and Iran in particular, is far more potent than their antipathy towards Jews and Israel nowadays. I

In a very real way, when Iran trots out its "you are pro-Israel" card, they are in fact pushing their Muslim enemies into wanting to be more pro-Israel! At this time, Israel represents security when the Arab world has little, it represents a consistent political position when the US has become flaky, and it represents an anti-Iran bulwark when the Sunni world is scared silly of Iran.

Although they have no love for the Jewish state, the Gulf states are no longer frightened of being labeled pro-Israel by Iran. And that is a really major change that occurred in only the past couple of years.

 

[SouI]

Nice article!

 

[Azad-Kashmiri]

The articles argued that Koranic passages against the Jews only applied to specific groups during specific time periods, and should not be applied to Jews in general.

That's your friend the terrorist wahabbis understanding of the verse, not the mainstream orthodox Sunni Muslims. I say your friends because the House of Saud has ALWAYS been a friend of the Zionists and Wahabbi sect is venerable arm of the House of Al-Saud.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Let Palestine live freely and we will love you more

 

[Solomon2]

Let Palestine live freely and we will love you more

Hmm...a "Palestine" free of all bonds to Israel and foreign political interference: no trade with Jews, no goods from Israel, no medical assistance, no utilities, etc. More "free" than Gaza is today. Almost he way Israel was compelled to live for its first eight years - though Israel had the added burden of its population doubling through Arab states' illegitimate property seizure and expulsion of their Jewish populations.

The "Palestinian" Arabs would be in quite a quandary: either to fight Israel and die quickly, eat each other dead as in Syria, or confess to the shameful truth that they only live and thrive due to the assistance and support of their hated enemy - Israel's Jews - and that their own "nationalism" is merely a sham to cover the greed of their externally-supported welfare state. Palestinian Arab nationalism would likely collapse, yes?

It's an intriguing idea, but I don't see why you would love Zionists more for it. Still, that may be the way to go: I don't know if anyone, ever, has told the "Palestinians" that their demands are too much and they simply aren't worth it: their parents and grandparents had no claim under Ottoman/Mandate law to retain their homes and property when they committed to rebellion and therefore Palestinian Arab refugees and their descendants (uniquely, also labelled "refugees") have been grifters ever since.

 

[Henry ME 95]

If the Saudis want to betray their Arab brothers just because they are so afraid of "the big bad persians" i guess that is on them.
not like they are that useful anyway, last time they did anything of note was the oil embargo on the west in the 70s
they are a useless paper tiger if the Jews want to try & use them as a bulwark then they have dug their grave also.
as for "living & thriving" that is a nice fox news article you have there with rose coloured glasses. i'm sure you are also an avid reader of Debka.
yanks, they really are out of their minds & beyond all hope.

 

[GiannKall]

At the begining of 20th century there was a plan for a Jewish state in Uganda. I always was curious of sionists managed to establish their state there and not in Palestine whether the "terrorists" would be black Africans

 

[hussain0216]

At a basic public level hatred for israel is high

 

[Solomon2]

At a basic public level hatred for israel is high

Saudi Columnist Yasser Hijazi: We Must Abandon Hatred Of And Hostility Towards Jews

..."Since my childhood, I – like other Arab children – was raised on hatred of and hostility towards Jews. The justification for this did not merely come down to the Arab-Israeli conflict and the claim that 'they occupied our land,' but rather that 'Jews are enemies of Arabs and of mankind; they possess all evil human traits, [and] they were created to be depraved, evil, lying, treacherous, deceiving, and to do anything that can harm humans in general, and Arab Muslims in particular'... Who is responsible for this generalization?... To what extent did this generalization rob the Arab mind of its ability to see things in a realistic perspective that does not blame [an entire] people for the sins of individuals or for historical episodes?...

"In school, on TV, in places where men and women congregate, and in Friday sermons, Jews were cursed and they and their descendants were maligned. Their religious description, according to human commentaries and interpretations, is 'those who have evoked [Allah's] anger.'[6] We never considered this generalization or realized the seriousness of holding an entire people responsible for the sins of all mankind. If we give it some serious thought, we discover that this perception means that the ultimate salvation for one people comes at the expense of another [who serves as] a scapegoat. This is because sins are pinned on the Jews, who are the scapegoats for all humanity. [The Jews] are equated to Satan in Arab Muslim culture, because Satan is a metaphysical figure, which requires a corporeal representation by something or someone. Thus, in the Arab and Islamic perspective, the Jew is the natural representation of this supernatural being [Satan].

"Religious education has been persistent in its racism and hatred, particularly towards Judaism and Jews. Unfortunately, national education was not free of religious and ethnic racism either. [Thus, it argued that] the holy [Jewish] book is fake; their religion is fake; their scholars and rabbis are corrupt and preach evil and plots; their rich are usurers; their poor are treacherous spies; and their scientists are murderers who invent and create all manner of methods of extermination. [Strangely,] no one has exposed this Jewish plot apart from the Muslim Arabs, who are gripped by these fears... Did this hatred have a reason prior to the occupation of Palestine? Do these distortions stem from the strong victor oppressing the weak loser? Was it the hatred of Arab Muslims towards religious and ethnic minorities that fostered these [distortions]?

"According to the Arab-Islamic view... the Jews will remain in hell forever, while the other nations have a chance to be pardoned by Allah. How can this kind of education be seen as proper civilized education within the framework of the perceptions and terminology of the contemporary world? How can it be seen as civilized education, when the source of authority for its standards regarding [different] sciences, histories, and cultures is the interpretation of ancient religious texts?...

"We can certainly find Israelis and Jews, as well as Jewish institutions, who stand for Palestinian rights and against Israel... but on the other hand, we cannot find an Arab who absolves the Jews – who are a people... like any other people – of all the inhumanly negative titles that have been applied to them, and no people on earth can be accused of what the Jews are accused of. Who [among us] demands to end Judophobia...? Who openly demands to treat the Jews like all other people, some of whom are good and some bad? Is there any Arab Islamic institution that defends Jews – with all their various sects and ethnic backgrounds – and works to end incitement against them and their marginalization due to their image as human embodiments of Satan?

"Who will begin to accept the humane notion of absolving people and their institutions of responsibility for a religious-historic struggle? Who will begin to recognize the errors [that have been made] regarding the rights of the other? Who will eliminate marginalization, racism, and selfishness from earthly considerations?... The world will never accept or tolerate the marginalization of people. We must eradicate the remnants of racism and religious ethnic struggles embedded in our cultural, religious, and institutional discourse. This will be a step on the path towards coexistence with the world, and will close a massive loophole that is exploited by Western extremism [against us]. Our only response to this [extremism] should be to distance ourselves from [this discourse] and instead export an official pluralistic civilized discourse; one that accepts the world, both in its interpretation of texts and its actions on the ground."[7]

 

[hussain0216]

Saudi Columnist Yasser Hijazi: We Must Abandon Hatred Of And Hostility Towards Jews

..."Since my childhood, I – like other Arab children – was raised on hatred of and hostility towards Jews. The justification for this did not merely come down to the Arab-Israeli conflict and the claim that 'they occupied our land,' but rather that 'Jews are enemies of Arabs and of mankind; they possess all evil human traits, [and] they were created to be depraved, evil, lying, treacherous, deceiving, and to do anything that can harm humans in general, and Arab Muslims in particular'... Who is responsible for this generalization?... To what extent did this generalization rob the Arab mind of its ability to see things in a realistic perspective that does not blame [an entire] people for the sins of individuals or for historical episodes?...

"In school, on TV, in places where men and women congregate, and in Friday sermons, Jews were cursed and they and their descendants were maligned. Their religious description, according to human commentaries and interpretations, is 'those who have evoked [Allah's] anger.'[6] We never considered this generalization or realized the seriousness of holding an entire people responsible for the sins of all mankind. If we give it some serious thought, we discover that this perception means that the ultimate salvation for one people comes at the expense of another [who serves as] a scapegoat. This is because sins are pinned on the Jews, who are the scapegoats for all humanity. [The Jews] are equated to Satan in Arab Muslim culture, because Satan is a metaphysical figure, which requires a corporeal representation by something or someone. Thus, in the Arab and Islamic perspective, the Jew is the natural representation of this supernatural being [Satan].

"Religious education has been persistent in its racism and hatred, particularly towards Judaism and Jews. Unfortunately, national education was not free of religious and ethnic racism either. [Thus, it argued that] the holy [Jewish] book is fake; their religion is fake; their scholars and rabbis are corrupt and preach evil and plots; their rich are usurers; their poor are treacherous spies; and their scientists are murderers who invent and create all manner of methods of extermination. [Strangely,] no one has exposed this Jewish plot apart from the Muslim Arabs, who are gripped by these fears... Did this hatred have a reason prior to the occupation of Palestine? Do these distortions stem from the strong victor oppressing the weak loser? Was it the hatred of Arab Muslims towards religious and ethnic minorities that fostered these [distortions]?

"According to the Arab-Islamic view... the Jews will remain in hell forever, while the other nations have a chance to be pardoned by Allah. How can this kind of education be seen as proper civilized education within the framework of the perceptions and terminology of the contemporary world? How can it be seen as civilized education, when the source of authority for its standards regarding [different] sciences, histories, and cultures is the interpretation of ancient religious texts?...

"We can certainly find Israelis and Jews, as well as Jewish institutions, who stand for Palestinian rights and against Israel... but on the other hand, we cannot find an Arab who absolves the Jews – who are a people... like any other people – of all the inhumanly negative titles that have been applied to them, and no people on earth can be accused of what the Jews are accused of. Who [among us] demands to end Judophobia...? Who openly demands to treat the Jews like all other people, some of whom are good and some bad? Is there any Arab Islamic institution that defends Jews – with all their various sects and ethnic backgrounds – and works to end incitement against them and their marginalization due to their image as human embodiments of Satan?

"Who will begin to accept the humane notion of absolving people and their institutions of responsibility for a religious-historic struggle? Who will begin to recognize the errors [that have been made] regarding the rights of the other? Who will eliminate marginalization, racism, and selfishness from earthly considerations?... The world will never accept or tolerate the marginalization of people. We must eradicate the remnants of racism and religious ethnic struggles embedded in our cultural, religious, and institutional discourse. This will be a step on the path towards coexistence with the world, and will close a massive loophole that is exploited by Western extremism [against us]. Our only response to this [extremism] should be to distance ourselves from [this discourse] and instead export an official pluralistic civilized discourse; one that accepts the world, both in its interpretation of texts and its actions on the ground."[7]

Nice article, it means nothing!!! Your occupation of Palestine has created immense hatred at a public, human level and all your doing is counting the days until power returns to the muslim world and justice for Palestine becomes a reality

 

[Solomon2]

Nice article, it means nothing!!! Your occupation of Palestine has created immense hatred -

The "occupation of Palestine" did not "create hatred": sustained incitement and propaganda did that.

From here, toning down the hate seems to be a matter of the courage of moral decency overcoming pride and embarrassment:

"Who will begin to accept the humane notion of absolving people and their institutions of responsibility for a religious-historic struggle? Who will begin to recognize the errors [that have been made] regarding the rights of the other? Who will eliminate marginalization, racism, and selfishness from earthly considerations?​

In KSA and Egypt prominent Arab leaders have stepped forward to begin this process. Will there also be Pakistanis brave enough to step forward as well?

...at a public, human level and all your doing is counting the days until power returns to the muslim world and justice for Palestine becomes a reality

How can you count yourself fit to determine what is just and what is not? We've discussed that a Pakistani education unfits you for such, as it mandates Israel-hatred based upon ideology and government policy, not fact. In Britain the distortions of the BBC fuel blogs like BBCwatch that document its Israel-related distortions the dominant Labor Party is filled to bursting with antisemites. You've never been to Israel or the "occupied" territories, either. So what gives you the discernment to make such a statement?

 

[Aramagedon]

There is no Israel to begin with ...

Saudis shake hands with Israelis but kill Muslims in Yemen and their wahhabi zombies in Iraq & Syria

Make fake 9/11 nearby Kaaba and kill Muslims

This is why Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) has cursed them and he has said they are as bad as nation of Aad and Tamud.

 

[mohsen]

Let me correct the title:
Hatred against kid killer Israelis/Saudis is increasing worldwide everyday.

 

[Henry ME 95]

At the begining of 20th century there was a plan for a Jewish state in Uganda. I always was curious of sionists managed to establish their state there and not in Palestine whether the "terrorists" would be black Africans

i believe it was meant to be established in Madagascar rather then Uganda. although i heard one theory about Mussolini offering to former a Zionist state in Ethiopia i have doubts about this theory.