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The WOT has taken a new turn

MastanKhan

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Hi,

The last few days against the war on terror have taken a new turn. Something has happened that has changed the mindset of the americans, the pakistanis and the afghanis.

I believe that it started with the successful attempt on the lives of the CIA officers by the jordanian---who had the support of Mehsud.

I donot know if it is incidental or otherwise, but the drone strikes against the al qaeda and ttp have taken a more successful turn. More often some high valued targets are being taken out now in this very short time as compared to earlier.

Then the actions taken by the pak intel agys have put a new hurt on the afg taliban. The co-operaton between the u s and the pak- is on a different level as of now.

To me it all looks like as if it is the begining of the end game. Unless some major unknown obstacle comes into the picture, I would say it is the onset of the grand finale.

Six months ago, I had stated the possibility of the u s walking out empty handed---but the killings of the cia personale has totally turned the tables against the taliban.
 
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Progress in Afghanistan, still not good. ISAF not working with cohesion while the Taliban are.
 
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Will Others Follow Dutch and Leave Afghanistan? | Asia | English



The Dutch government has collapsed over whether to keep its soldiers in Afghanistan. In this report from Washington, Senior Correspondent André de Nesnera looks at what effect - if any - that will have on other nations that have troops in that country under the banner of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.

About 2,000 Dutch troops have been in Afghanistan's southern province of Uruzgan since 2006. They are part of the 86,000 troop NATO-led International Security Assistance Force.

Analysts say NATO has three objectives in Afghanistan. The first is to assist the Afghan government in its efforts to rebuild and stabilize the country. The second is to train the Afghan army and police. And the third is to hunt down and eliminate insurgents in southern Afghanistan - home of the Taliban, ousted from power by a U.S.-led coalition in 2001.

About 1,500 of the 2,000 Dutch troops, along with American and British forces, are engaged in fighting insurgents and the Taliban. The remaining 500 Dutch forces are involved in civilian reconstruction efforts and training the afghan army and police.

Dutch troops withdrawal

But now Dutch troops will begin to return home this August, following the collapse last month of the government over its Afghan policy. One of the major coalition members - the Labor Party - left the government saying it would not support extending the Afghan deployment.

During a recent news conference in Washington, NATO Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen did not seem alarmed by the decision. "I consider this a purely domestic Dutch problem and I am not going to interfere with [a] domestic political situation which is already complicated. I do not think what has happened in the Netherlands will have any impact on the situation in other countries," he said.

But Charles Kupchan with the Council on Foreign Relations says the Dutch decision came at a bad time, especially when NATO is engaged in a military offensive in Afghanistan's southern Helmand province.

"It is very bad timing. It comes on the heels of President Obama's effort to get more European troops into the fight. And Obama enjoyed a reasonable amount of success in doing so. He got 30,000 troops from the United States and somewhere close to the 10,000 that he asked for from Europe. It sets a bad precedent because it suggests that countries are one by one going to start leaving the coalition, and it raises questions about who is going to take over from Dutch troops in the province where they have been the lead in fighting the insurgency," he said.

The Australians, who have about 1,500 troops in Uruzgan, say they will not take over the lead role once the Dutch leave.

"Domino effect"

Many analysts, such as Sean Kay with Ohio Wesleyan University in Delaware, Ohio, ask whether the decision by the Netherlands to begin withdrawing troops in August will have a domino effect on other countries.

"If you listen to NATO officials, they will tell you no," said Kay. "But at the end of the day, decisions on military contributions are taken in the capitals. And they are taken by politicians who have to be responsive to and reflective of public opinion."

"And public opinion in Europe in particular, but also in Canada has been turning away from this mission for years now. And the elites in government have been trying to make a stand-up case for the commitment to the alliance and NATO. But that is just becoming increasingly difficult for them," he added.

Canada is expected to begin withdrawing its 3,000 troops in mid-2011.

London University NATO expert Michael Williams says the Canadians have been heavily involved in southern Afghanistan, in Kandahar. "They have pursued extremely difficult military operations with fighting not seen since the Second World War - and they have done a great job. They have also instituted a very strong development agenda," he said.

"But domestically, again, they have a public that is not so keen on the operation and the government has faced a few challenges from the opposition party about the role Canada has been playing. There was a very major study a couple of years ago saying unless more allies did more, the Canadians should leave. And I think the Dutch pulling out will certainly give more credence to the argument in Canada that they should leave as well in 2011," he continued.

Many analysts do not expect "a rush for the exits", as they put it. But they do say many governments will reassess their withdrawal strategies in the wake of the Dutch experience.
 
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@ Mastan Khan's post:

Sir what do you think has actually happened here? and why?

Progress in Afghanistan, still not good. ISAF not working with cohesion while the Taliban are.

and its really strange :cheesy:

I mean, with money up to the tune of ~2 billion/week
most advanced tech and so on

.........and yet........ zilch, just zilch :confused:

as for the Dutch..........

apart from the rel reasons, which will make it boring, I would like to remind you guys to google : "Dutch courage" >> he he he.
 
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and its really strange :cheesy:

I mean, with money up to the tune of ~2 billion/week
most advanced tech and so on

.........and yet........ zilch, just zilch :confused:
Their populations have already lost the will to fight it. They are not affected by the Taliban directly. Nothing major happened after 9/11 and they are confident nothing probably will. There is major opposition to the war in all their countries, on top of that there are accusation of ulterior motives of politicians working the military contractors to keep the war going on and on.

With Afghanis, they have no unity. Every ethnic group is ready to kill the other ethnic group. They have no country, just gangs fighting to take over their territories. They don't want to see the war end with their own group ending up as the ultimate top dog.

With Pakistan it was a fight for its survival. We are directly affected. Our job is not over, the military operations are going well. But the mullahism, the radicalism the curtailment of civil liberties, the draconian laws, the persecution of minorities, the abuse of women and the lack of education that allowed for such extremism and terrorism to prosper is still very much part of the Pakistani society. Work is not going so well on that from our end either. No cohesion on the idea of Pakistaniat either.
 
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Hi,

It is a possibility that after they catch the heirarchy of the taliban---sit down with them and talk to them and reason with them to end this this war and be a part of afghan govt---.

If that happens the al-qaeda will be left out in the cold. My personal feeling is that the killing of the cia personale has a big hand in this push---ttp Mehsud openly taking credit of the hit---it is a no no---. I also believe that the u s has also realized that it is time to have the support of the ttp ended by india, northern alliance and as reported by those pamphlet drop by the army.

The dutch may go home---u s will have to end this war on their own.
 
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I hope we are mentally and physically prepared to the inevitable taliban backlash inside Pakistan. as we speak, they're planing and activating their teams.

I hope and pray I'm wrong, but if history is any indicator...
 
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With Pakistan it was a fight for its survival.

A really important point here.

Yesterday, on a program, (Dr Perzaada on dunya tv), with Gen. Hamid Gul, the end conclusion was:

the post withdrawal scenario viz a viz Pakistan secondary to the fallout in Afghanistan, is going to be a night mare for us

meaning, that, once they leave, it is gonna be the like the 90s all over, but this time, raised to the power x,y,z (exponential) :confused:

any thoughts on this aspect!

Hi,

---sit down with them and talk to them and reason with them to end this this war and be a part of afghan govt---.

...........

u s will have to end this war on their own.

1) I dont think the Taliban are gonna agree to talks, whether internationally it is accepted or not, this war has been won by them. They are the winners, deep down, everybody knows this.

Operation Anaconda = fail
Operation Khanjar = fail
Operation Marjah = fail

there might be differences in the details but its true.

and the u s is the losing side, they will pull out, sooner or later, and>>

losers cant be choosers

2) they will run like they did in vietnam. It is gonna be fatally dangerous for us afterwards. The fallout will be great.

any comments on India's strategy in Afghanistan, whether win or fail?
 
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I hope we are mentally and physically prepared to the inevitable taliban backlash inside Pakistan. as we speak, they're planing and activating their teams.

I hope and pray I'm wrong, but if history is any indicator...

Well their backlash is kind of over for now, as the more they do backlash, the more they spend their resources, human wise and explosives wise. And with more activity, the chances of them being caught increase up also, while many got caught also.

And with they themselves in disarray, with their safe heavens disturbed & gone and military on the go after them, it will become very difficult for them to launch the past kind of attacks.

All we need is a tighter intelligence network and inter communication among them and for the military to keep going after any of their areas where they feel safe.
 
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Even in so called Army controlled areas of FATA, the reign of tpp starts after 7 ó clock which remains till dawn. In this period they can knock at your door any time and can take you to their courts, where you will find yourself on their mercy.

So the notion that they are unable of conducting any disastrous thing is not better for the secure envirenment. To avoid any such act we need our security apperatus very extra vigilant.
 
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Hi,

The last few days against the war on terror have taken a new turn. Something has happened that has changed the mindset of the americans, the pakistanis and the afghanis.

I believe that it started with the successful attempt on the lives of the CIA officers by the jordanian---who had the support of Mehsud.

I donot know if it is incidental or otherwise, but the drone strikes against the al qaeda and ttp have taken a more successful turn. More often some high valued targets are being taken out now in this very short time as compared to earlier.

Then the actions taken by the pak intel agys have put a new hurt on the afg taliban. The co-operaton between the u s and the pak- is on a different level as of now.

To me it all looks like as if it is the begining of the end game. Unless some major unknown obstacle comes into the picture, I would say it is the onset of the grand finale.

Six months ago, I had stated the possibility of the u s walking out empty handed---but the killings of the cia personale has totally turned the tables against the taliban.

I not only agree with you... i have rather mentioned it here in very same words... just a little deviation to my belief is that U turn started with the death of BM and some early attempts on HM ...... i think RAW-HM felt betrayed on double crossing of CIA and since being insider successfully orchesterd attack on CIA officials.... no doubt great loss for CIA but that point U turn was already complet..... and from that point onwards things seems to be moving reverse... as you mentioned co-operation etc.
indians are also on different footings... since last couple of months.
I agree the end game is near but i comend the team of Kiyani and Pasha they brought US to a point to target BM and after wards is just following developments.
If not than devine hand is in action (again) in Pakistan's favor. ;)
 
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well....i think this war will never end in pakistan, afghanistan etc, unless our people(who show "humdardy" to taliban) grow up, and stop this nonsense.
and i think i US is planning to leave afghanistan...thats why they r building up afghan military.
 
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Hi Batman,

I believe that you are on the right track---I believe that the current american general is tactically a very astute and intelligent planner. He has planned to attack the taliban from a different direction and this is the face of that attack.

America, if it wants to do something decisive, had to do something different. I believe that we are looking at phase one and two of the new strategy---one--being drone strikes taking out the ttp---two--being nabbing of the taliban commanders. There has never been such a cohesive effort done before between the paks and the americans. So, we will definitely see some very positive results coming out of it.
 
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Hi Batman,

I believe that you are on the right track---I believe that the current american general is tactically a very astute and intelligent planner. He has planned to attack the taliban from a different direction and this is the face of that attack.

America, if it wants to do something decisive, had to do something different. I believe that we are looking at phase one and two of the new strategy---one--being drone strikes taking out the ttp---two--being nabbing of the taliban commanders. There has never been such a cohesive effort done before between the paks and the americans. So, we will definitely see some very positive results coming out of it.

Agree Sir... we can only guess.....but it is not fair to credit American genral for the wisdom.... our side is constantly trying to teach them in talk and even showed them practical demo... All what americans need to do is to put pressure/deadline to their generals and political leadership to show results.... you can always refer to the performance of Pak army with limited budget and resources.....
I must admit that i also have the advantage of hindsight.... i never believed that what Pak army acheived was doable...... in given circumstances and resources.
we didn't even had helis and drones available for the grand historic operation.... instead afghan authorities co-operated with fleeing TTP.
 
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