The West may be too late to stop Beijing in S. China Sea

[PeaceGen]

I don't think you have any clue about news business in America. A guy in a foreign land is lecturing an American about news in America !
Lay off the weed buddy, it is killing your remaining brain cells.

and i don't think you have any clue about statistics

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

What's fake about it?

The US President declared that CNN is fake news.

 

[PeaceGen]

The US President declared that CNN is fake news.

That's because they dare to criticize him (all the time)


found a new news-article that's on-topic again.. :

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/31/politics/us-warning-south-china-sea/index.html

Washington (CNN)The Pentagon on Thursday ratcheted up rhetoric about China's militarization of islands in the South China Sea, even as the Trump administration presses China for cooperation on North Korea.

When asked by a reporter about the ability of the US to "blow apart" one of China's controversial man-made islands, a top US general told reporters, "I would just tell you that the United States military has had a lot of experience in the Western Pacific taking down small islands."

The officer, Lt. Gen. Kenneth McKenzie, director of the Joint Staff, was asked if he was talking about US military operations during World War II where thousands of US troops died as they fought their way across several islands in the Pacific.

"It's just a fact we had a lot of experience in the Second World War taking down small islands that are isolated, so that's a core competency of the US military that we've done before; shouldn't read anything more into that than a simple statement of historical fact," he said.

McKenzie's words carry particular weight, because he is one of the most senior officers in the Pentagon. As director of the Joint Staff he serves as a top official for Gen. Joseph Dunford, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and frequently is in meetings with both Dunford and Defense Secretary James Mattis. He made clear the US military is "prepared" to "protect US and allied interests in the region."

Verbal tensions between the Pentagon and Beijing increased this week after the US sailed two warships through the South China Sea to demonstrate US naval presence in an area that the US claims as international waters, while the Chinese claim nearly all the area as their territorial waters. The US says a Chinese ship operated in an unprofessional manner close to the US Navy ships.

McKenzie indicated the US would not back off, saying that "we will continue to conduct freedom of navigation operations as is allowed by international law. And we're going to continue to do the things that we're doing."

The Chinese government Thursday called the US assertion that Beijing is militarizing the South China Sea "ridiculous."

But Mattis had said earlier this week that China had not lived up to its claim that it wasn't militarizing the area: "They have done exactly that, moving weaponry in that was never there before."

US surveillance has shown the movement of Chinese surface-to-air missiles and air defense systems into the area. Video has also shown a Chinese bomber landing on an island for the first time.

"We are also going to confront what we believe is out of step with international law, out of step with international tribunals that have spoken on the issue, and part of this is we maintain a very transparent military activity out in the Pacific," Mattis said.

Verbal tensions between the Pentagon and Beijing increased this week after the US sailed two warships through the South China Sea to demonstrate US naval presence in an area that the US claims as international waters, while the Chinese claim nearly all the area as their territorial waters. The US says a Chinese ship operated in an unprofessional manner close to the US Navy ships.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_waters
-> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_the_High_Seas
-> https://treaties.un.org/Pages/ViewDetails.aspx?src=TREATY&mtdsg_no=XXI-2&chapter=21&lang=en
shows that China never signed the 'international-waters treaty' that the US is referring to.

but for the sake of military, political and commerce stability, i support what the US is doing in the South China Sea.

 

[fallstuff]

and i don't think you have any clue about statistics

Its about the quality of the sample size.

Remember all those CNN/MSNBC/NY Times polls claiming how Hillary Clinton was going to win the election by 10 points ? Only Rasmussen polls came through about the election.

Here is from Rasmussen about News Trustworthiness,

20% Rate the News Media As Very Trustworthy

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...14/20_rate_the_news_media_as_very_trustworthy

 

[PeaceGen]

Its about the quality of the sample size.

Remember all those CNN/MSNBC/NY Times polls claiming how Hillary Clinton was going to win the election by 10 points ? Only Rasmussen polls came through about the election.

Here is from Rasmussen about News Trustworthiness,

20% Rate the News Media As Very Trustworthy

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...14/20_rate_the_news_media_as_very_trustworthy

And who says Rasmussen is reliable? Because they happened to predict something accurately? How many of Rasmussen's polls turn out to become reality? Any stats on that? It goes directly to show their reliability as poll-takers.

 

[fallstuff]

And who says Rasmussen is reliable? Because they happened to predict something accurately? How many of Rasmussen's polls turn out to become reality? Any stats on that? It goes directly to show their reliability as poll-takers.

Rasmussen almost always on the dot about elections. Read up on that one.
As Sherlock Holmes says, " That is so elementary My Dear Watson."

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

but for the sake of military, political and commerce stability, i support what the US is doing in the South China Sea.

LOL what stability?

China hasn't had any wars for over four decades.

Now how many wars and invasions has the USA carried out in that time frame? They are in a state of eternal war.

 

[PeaceGen]

LOL what stability?

The kind of stability that ensures no nation can institute a sea tax for instance.

Why the hell are you claiming the south china sea in the first place eh?

China hasn't had any wars for over four decades.

Now how many wars and invasions has the USA carried out in that time frame? They are in a state of eternal war.

no military wars with other nations, no.
China, as we both know, so far, has been able to use other tactics to get what it needs from other nations. Like bullying, manipulation, investment deals that are extortionist in the long term, oppression of large sections of your own populations, stuff like that. China does not have clean hands, as you suggest.

NATO has different tactics. Slightly more honest tactics, if i may say so. We're not afraid to call a pig a pig nor afraid to go to war when attacked. Let that sink in, please.

Rasmussen almost always on the dot about elections. Read up on that one.
As Sherlock Holmes says, " That is so elementary My Dear Watson."

Ok i'll take your word for it : they're often right about elections. But who is to say Rasmussen doesn't take some money on the side from polls they conduct outside election season? It's not like statistics can not be used to lie with. I know it to be lied with by pharmaceutical (medicine) companies all the time, and also by political groups like the GOP. There's even a book about the subtleties of that "art", called "how to lie with statistics". It's probably available on Amazon for cheap.

and such things are hard to prove.

i know that the news channels i watch, often get it right. and i don't just watch cnn, by the way.

i also know Trump will domestically cry foul whenever he's criticized, often using repeated lies.
i think you underestimate the power of a lie on repeat. it has special powers over the masses.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

no military wars with other nations, no.
China, as we both know, so far, has been able to use other tactics to get what it needs from other nations. Like bullying, manipulation, investment deals that are extortionist in the long term, oppression of large sections of your own populations, stuff like that. China does not have clean hands, as you suggest.

NATO has different tactics. Slightly more honest tactics, if i may say so. We're not afraid to call a pig a pig nor afraid to go to war when attacked. Let that sink in, please.

So basically NATO is constantly at war and uses missiles, bombs and drones to murder people every day.

Whereas China is not at war, and hasn't been at war for over 40 years. And somehow that is worse?

NATO has different tactics. Slightly more honest tactics, if i may say so.

Yes, honest murdering.

Whereas the most force that China uses against other countries is using water cannons in the South China Sea.

When someone gets hit with a water cannon, they get to go back home to their kids. Not after a NATO bomb lands on their heads.

 

[PeaceGen]

So basically NATO is constantly at war and uses missiles, bombs and drones to murder people every day.

Whereas China is not at war, and hasn't been at war for over 40 years. And somehow that is worse?



Yes, honest murdering.

Whereas the most force that China uses against other countries is using water cannons in the South China Sea.

When someone gets hit with a water cannon, they get to go back home to their kids. Not after a NATO bomb lands on their heads.

First of all, it's not murder if it's military strikes.
Second, people like me constantly speak out against murder by NATO (or Israel for that matter) in the form of creating innocent casualties. And progress has been made in that regard, especially over the past 15 years.

And the people that NATO kills, are the kind of people that would home to their kids and plot terror attacks against NATO citizens and officials *and* teach their kids to do the same, when countered with water-cannons.

Now, to get into the nitty gritty of why China has "only had to use water cannons for the past 40 years"... that is not true.
China, to name just one point of attention, tries to hide the news about the many political activists in China who end up executed and organ-harvested by your state.
Or the many smaller "uprisings" in China that have been met with military force of the Chinese government against it's own people.. Even over stuff as vital as an environmental policy that was making profit, but killing off Chinese people at alarming rates.

China economically and politically bullies their neighbors and countries where it gets its resources (raw materials) from into long-term extortion contracts (not just in Asia, but in Africa too, i can look up the reports of that if you want), and tries to keep that a secret in much the same way as the Yakuza enforces their secrets; with realistic threats.

And now China has embarked on military expansion *well* outside their borders. Something you've always claimed you don't do as a nation.

 

[beijingwalker]

First of all, it's not murder if it's military strikes.
Second, people like me constantly speak out against murder by NATO (or Israel for that matter) in the form of creating innocent casualties. And progress has been made in that regard, especially over the past 15 years.

And the people that NATO kills, are the kind of people that would home to their kids and plot terror attacks against NATO citizens and officials *and* teach their kids to do the same, when countered with water-cannons.

Now, to get into the nitty gritty of why China has "only had to use water cannons for the past 40 years"... that is not true.
China, to name just one point of attention, tries to hide the news about the many political activists in China who end up executed and organ-harvested by your state.
Or the many smaller "uprisings" in China that have been met with military force of the Chinese government against it's own people.. Even over stuff as vital as an environmental policy that was making profit, but killing off Chinese people at alarming rates.

China economically and politically bullies their neighbors and countries where it gets its resources (raw materials) from into long-term extortion contracts (not just in Asia, but in Africa too, i can look up the reports of that if you want), and tries to keep that a secret in much the same way as the Yakuza enforces their secrets; with realistic threats.

And now China has embarked on military expansion *well* outside their borders. Something you've always claimed you don't do as a nation.

How do we bully others? Providing money for construct like we always do or sending bombers for destruction like US always does? PLA is a force that hasn't been engaged in military conflicts of any kind for 4 decades while US has been busy fighting wars several places around the global very often at the same time.

If you have time and thought for the world peace, go to talk to Americans, international polls show that US being considered the top threat to the world peace by the people from most countries.

 

[PeaceGen]

How do we bully others? Providing money for construct like we always do or sending bombers for destruction like US always does?

last i read, countries that get construction help from China almost always end up losing something in the long run.
cyber-security in the case of ZTE company from China providing telecomms infrastructure outside China,
and in the case of Africa :

https://www.meetup.com/nl-NL/ForumOnInternationalAffairs/events/240795395/

China has authorized billions of dollars in loans to African countries, and Chinese government-owned companies are in turn given exclusive and long-term rights, sometimes century long, to extract timber, copper and iron ore from indigenous land. It seems like a mutual win-win, however, these loans and investment with their loop sided benefits create an imbalance that is stark across the continent leaving many African countries and government indebted to China.

and the US uses military force as a last resort only.

you're lucky you Chinese don't have to fight the Muslims terror groups.
oh wait, you do, and you do so with at least as equally brutal force as NATO.
also to prevent further attacks by Muslim extremists.
you're lucky you don't have to fight them on the scale we have to.

Vietnam? a war in which Russia and China were as guilty as the US of turning Vietnam into a proxy-war region. You just happened to come out on top that time.

and i *can* explain with easily available and widely supported arguments how the Muslims started and escalated their conflict with the West into the war on terror.

PLA is a force that hasn't been engaged in military conflicts of any kind for 4 decades while US has been busy fighting wars several places around the global very often at the same time.

If you have time and thought for the world peace, go to talk to Americans, international polls show that US being considered the top threat to the world peace by the people from most countries.

You gotta start supplying sources to support your claims dude.
I'm not going to do your googling and reading for you anymore. That goes for all Chinese posting anywhere on this forum, by the way.

I've got a life and a business life too, which i want to keep being able to spend time on.

 

[beijingwalker]

last i read, countries that get construction help from China almost always end up losing something in the long run.
cyber-security in the case of ZTE company from China providing telecomms infrastructure outside China,
and in the case of Africa :

https://www.meetup.com/nl-NL/ForumOnInternationalAffairs/events/240795395/

.

This exactly shows how narrow minded and brainwashed by western media you are. There are tons of African media reports how China's investment help Africa in the long run cause China's investments are more on infrastructure which brings long term benefits and China's approval rate is the highest in Africa, but you just picked some western few China bashing propaganda which demonizes whataver China does.

That's your true color you finally showed under the disguise.

 

[PeaceGen]

This exactly shows how narrow minded and brainwashed by western media you are. There are tons of African media reports how China's investment help Africa in the long run cause China's investments are more on infrastructure which brings long term benefits and China's approval rate is the highest in Africa, but you just picked some western few China bashing propaganda which demonizes whataver China does.

That's your true color you finally showed under the disguise.

hahaha. *you* want to talk about true colors. always portraying the Chinese government as morally superior, while they're really *not*.

and sure, the short-term rewards of China's investments *would* make you popular in Africa. in the short term.
i know that people are going to complain over there, once the true cost becomes felt by them, possibly decades from now.

we, like the Chinese, think of long-term impacts aswell as short-term results. the Africans might not do so as much, because they want to raise their standard of living, *thinking* it's going to last forever, *thinking* they can kick the can down the road (delay problems). Once your contracts hold them back in terms of raising their standard of living any further, we'll see what they say they experience as the net result of deals with the Chinese government.

of course, you'll try to cover that up as well.

luckily that free press of ours keeps us well-informed of what you're actually up to.

 

[beijingwalker]

luckily that free press of ours keeps us well-informed of what you're actually up to.

You true color again, hold dear to your beloved brainwashing western media, it's more and more like a joke in other parts of the world.