The Unruly And Unresponsive Neighbor

[deckingraj]

First off, its really good to see someone come up with a productive arguement instead of just bashing each other....

Honestly good to hear a sane voice...Just look at the kid above and unfortunately you will find such idiots on both sides...

Ill jst talk about this...
So, first of all, i dont think it what nawaz sharif agreed to on ufa disturbed anyone back home. Anyone who thinks so, does on assumption basis to defame and blame PA n Isi.

Great...because the stand was a bit different from the usual stands. In India-Pak scenario any side diverting from a known path draws lot of flak from their respective domestic audience...so it is quiet obvious to think in that direction, no??

Second, meeting anyone in India before the meeting was not ufa agreement...

Of-course...this anyways is a new thing that present govt. has introduced...so no complains there...

Third, we talk about kashmir because it has thr most to do with, "border tentions" and some to do with terrorism too...If you dont agree, its just too give urself a satisfaction on kashmir conflict....

I am not sure if i completely understood your point here..however just to clarify...i am not saying Kashmir should not be discussed....however what i am saying is that it is not important to discuss everything all the time...and honestly at this time when both parties are pointing fingers at each other for meddling in trouble waters then i don't see any logic in opposing such talks from either side...

 

[Usama78]

Honestly good to hear a sane voice...Just look at the kid above and unfortunately you will find such idiots on both sides...


Great...because the stand was a bit different from the usual stands. In India-Pak scenario any side diverting from a known path draws lot of flak from their respective domestic audience...so it is quiet obvious to think in that direction, no??


Of-course...this anyways is a new thing that present govt. has introduced...so no complains there...


I am not sure if i completely understood your point here..however just to clarify...i am not saying Kashmir should not be discussed....however what i am saying is that it is not important to discuss everything all the time...and honestly at this time when both parties are pointing fingers at each other for meddling in trouble waters then i don't see any logic in opposing such talks from either side...

That is what they do. I.e not oppose such talks. After all, both of us are larhe countries affecting worldly politics. So if anyone of us would oppose such talks we would be hurting our own respect and reputation on a international levels which neither side would want. The way we argue hear is no way how our think tanks think and take actions...
So i presonallu believe both of us can b blamed for the failure of talks...
We just decided to make sure that importance of kashmir to us is always realised and recognized and we would exploit any opportunit6 for it.
Its exactl6 vice versa of it for you guys. And exploit any opportunity for it.

 

[Not So Good]

Keep believing that, you will end up solving Kashmir problem effectively.

There is nothing to solve in Kashmir, move on

 

[deckingraj]

That is what they do. I.e not oppose such talks. After all, both of us are larhe countries affecting worldly politics. So if anyone of us would oppose such talks we would be hurting our own respect and reputation on a international levels which neither side would want. The way we argue hear is no way how our think tanks think and take actions...
So i presonallu believe both of us can b blamed for the failure of talks...
We just decided to make sure that importance of kashmir to us is always realised and recognized and we would exploit any opportunit6 for it. Its exactl6 vice versa of it for you guys. And exploit any opportunity for it.

Bingo...as long as either side don't behave as if they are saint and the other side evil half of our issues will go away...i agree with your point above and that's why thought that talk on terror is something which is important for both the countries...ideally both sides should have gone ahead however then there is a long historical baggage and it ain't going away....

There is nothing to solve in Kashmir, move on

This is where we have been so wrong!!...glad the present govt. has atleast started talking about it....This "move on" concept has always put the focus on Indian side of Kashmir...and literally no focus on P-O-K...remember we claim the entire J&K??

 

[Solomon2]

Indians put preconditions in such away that bailing out was the only option. otherwise all we would have seen is bitching and yapping by Indians and our clueless minister standing speechless.

You may have something there. There's something questionable about a claim that "talks failed because so-and-so side wouldn't agree to an agenda." Talks don't "fail" if the parties didn't agree on what to talk about; rather, the talks didn't happen in the first place.

Agendas should not be set up by ministers but by their assistants, then publicized by both sides. After that, the ministers can talk. Less chance of political embarrassments that way.

 

[Bratva]

@Solomon2 Who the F says Pakistani military canceled the talks ? Is Sartaj Aziz National security adviser is Active duty general because he cancelled the talks ?

I mean before posting the article, if you skim through your own crap and point out glaring and infactual errors and biases in article itself, that would make you neutral. Posting verbitam articles and considering them holy truth is what makes you look like fool every time when you post BS articles about Pakistan. m

 

[Irfan Baloch]

You may have something there. There's something questionable about a claim that "talks failed because so-and-so side wouldn't agree to an agenda." Talks don't "fail" if the parties didn't agree on what to talk about; rather, the talks didn't happen in the first place.

Agendas should not be set up by ministers but by their assistants, then publicized by both sides. After that, the ministers can talk. Less chance of political embarrassments that way.

dear sir I agree with you, not long ago this was the case behind the scenes. I wont claim us Pakistanis to be blame free either.
what I am pointing at is that in India there is a notion that Pakistan needs to be taught a lesson, shoudn't get any concessions and pressure should be increased instead.
this is the current behaviour of the Indians and their tail is up, their national security advisor and military leadership tells them there is nothing to talk with Pakistan, its military is bogged down in the west and the Islamists are tearing it apart so there is nothing much left for the secretaries to talk about.

whenever Uncle Sam tells us to be good boys then there is a specially choreographed "terror attack" on India and /or a statement / precondition by Indian official that saps the proposed dialogue before it takes place all too convenient for India and Pakistan stands blamed.

 

[Solomon2]

I mean before posting the article, if you skim through your own crap and point out glaring and infactual errors and biases in article itself, that would make you neutral. Posting verbitam articles and considering them holy truth is what makes you look like fool every time when you post BS articles about Pakistan. m

I am not a god and I am not afraid to look like a fool. When I discover I'm wrong I change my mind. What do you do?

 

[Bratva]

I am not a god and I am not afraid to look like a fool. When I discover I'm wrong I change my mind. What do you do?

I remain objective which no outsider can remain when it comes to Pakistan. Thank you come again

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I am not a god and I am not afraid to look like a fool. When I discover I'm wrong I change my mind. What do you do?

that is a commendable quality .. although the question was not directed at me but I must say I do try to follow your example.
unlike others I dont have any issue with the articles you post an alternate view against Pakistan is welcome with brings up a debate and helps us to see how others see us.
we cant do everything for other's interests this must be understood. remaining within the scope of the thread and many more like it on the same theme the current attitude of Indian government is godsend gift for our men in khakis the Indian border violence has gone beyond the disputed border and reached the international borders.

someone give a moment to him/ herself and pray tell what international border along sialkot has to do with alleged LeT infiltration in Indian Kashmir? and how does killing villagers in heir homes while they sleep helps the Indian cause against alleged Pakistan army's supported infiltrators inside the disputed territory? (for your benefit Sialkot is in Pakistani Punjab and is part of recognised Pakistan and miles away from where Indian army is deployed along the LoC).

 

[Solomon2]

...unlike others I dont have any issue with the articles you post an alternate view against Pakistan is welcome with brings up a debate and helps us to see how others see us.

You understand. This is the sort of commentary Pakistanis have to watch out for. Best to respond to it with substance as you have. Responding with invented accusations or personal attacks simply reinforces the idea that most Pakistanis are morally corrupt.

...how does killing villagers in heir homes while they sleep helps the Indian cause against alleged Pakistan army's supported infiltrators inside the disputed territory?

Don't you recognize this as s a page out of Pakistani strategic theory? Remember, the plan in case E. Pakistan was invaded was to counter-invade from West Pakistan. To strike not where the enemy was strong but where they were weak. So under Modi the Indians have decided to what's good for the geese is good for the gander.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

You understand. This is the sort of commentary Pakistanis have to watch out for. Best to respond to it with substance as you have. Responding with invented accusations or personal attacks simply reinforces the idea that most Pakistanis are morally corrupt.

Don't you recognize this as s a page out of Pakistani strategic theory? Remember, the plan in case E. Pakistan was invaded was to counter-invade from West Pakistan. To strike not where the enemy was strong but where they were weak. So under Modi the Indians have decided to what's good for the geese is good for the gander.

very true

Indian chief today is threatening a short and swift war knowing well we are engaged in the operation in the west along Pak Afghan border. . any worthy enemy will take advantage of such situation whether or not it has contributed in exacerbating the terrorism in Pakistan. Indians have moved one step ahead from their cultural centres that catered for Baloch insurgents .. now their military has forward field hospitals that are nursing retreating TTP terrorists into Afghanistan from Tirah and Shawal valley.

I am must clarifying here that whatever "non responsive" or "unruly" attitude Pakistan is showing towards India... it has some reasons which must be looked too.

thanks for your interest and taking your time in visiting and engaging in debates here.

 

[Stag112]

very true

Indian chief today is threatening a short and swift war knowing well we are engaged in the operation in the west along Pak Afghan border. . any worthy enemy will take advantage of such situation whether or not it has contributed in exacerbating the terrorism in Pakistan. Indians have moved one step ahead from their cultural centres that catered for Baloch insurgents .. now their military has forward field hospitals that are nursing retreating TTP terrorists into Afghanistan from Tirah and Shawal valley.

I am must clarifying here that whatever "non responsive" or "unruly" attitude Pakistan is showing towards India... it has some reasons which must be looked too.

thanks for your interest and taking your time in visiting and engaging in debates here.

No points for intellectual dishonesty, unfortunately.

This is what the chief said. If this is a threat, then I do not know what a professional statement about proparedness and a professional assessment on the nature of future conflicts presented at a military gathering looks like.

India is prepared to face offensive military action on its borders should the need arise, Army Chief General Dalbir Singh said here on Tuesday, adding that any future conflict was expected to be short and swift.

The Hindu quoted him as referring to the ceasefire violations along the borders in Jammu and Kashmir, which have put relations between India and Pakistan under a strain. This had made New Delhi aware of the need to remain prepared, General Singh said.

According to The Hindu, the general was speaking at a tri-service seminar on the 1965 Indo-Pak War. “The army chief said a very high level of operational preparedness at all times has become part of India’s strategy as there is recognition that the swift, short nature of future wars is likely to offer limited warning time,” according to the paper.

What is considered a professional statement in pakistani military circles? China's enemies are pakistan's enemies like your COAS said? Do you have any idea how ridiculous and unprofessional that looks, and in the context of this thread, only further discredits the pak fauj even more?

 

[Irfan Baloch]

No points for intellectual dishonesty, unfortunately.

This is what the chief said. If this is a threat, then I do not know what a professional statement about proparedness and a professional assessment on the nature of future conflicts presented at a military gathering looks like.

sorry you are late .
we have already discussed and agreed that the Indian attacks on the Pakistani villages along the international border in Punjab have nothing to do with the unrest and alleged infiltration into Indian Kashmir along the line of control. there is no dishonesty on my part .. you are just being selective. we are in no shape or mood to Invade India or Kashmir.. it is your military instead which is spoiling for a fight and mobilizes troops along the borders almost every year.

 

[Stag112]

sorry you are late .
we have already discussed and agreed that the Indian attacks on the Pakistani villages along the international border in Punjab have nothing to do with the unrest and alleged infiltration into Indian Kashmir along the line of control. there is no dishonesty on my part .. you are just being selective. we are in no shape or mood to Invade India or Kashmir.. it is your military instead which is spoiling for a fight and mobilizes troops along the borders almost every year.

Sure you agreed. LOL.

Most of the terrorists who come to India from Pakistan are from Punjab BTW.

Young, educated and dangerous - The Hindu

This is about as relevant to the thread as your lie that our army chief threatened anyone.