The UnDefeated King of South Asian Skies : IAF - Mig 25 Foxbat

[MilSpec]

Sadly this is more true than you all think.

A LOT, and literally a LOT of military R&D programs/proposals/achievements in Pakistan are scuttled.. or ignored.. simply because India has not achieved it/done it.. so there is no need for Pakistan to try and raise the bar.

Would like to hear more on this regard,if not classified.

 

[474474]

MIG 25 FOXBAT is not a runner , It is invincible in the skies of the enemy and aptly suits to be a king. It do not have to run because of enemies since no enemy can conquer it at that heights and speed.
It is also leathel with missiles.

Invincible/king isn't decided if it can escape a rag tag third world air force, try china for size

 

[faithfulguy]

As the article stated, this was a failed project for its primary purpose of intercept sr-71. But it found she fullness for Indian AF.

 

[474474]

Would like to hear more on this regard,if not classified.

At least we're not encouraging an arms race

 

[Ammyy]

As the article stated, this was a failed project for its primary purpose of intercept sr-71. But it found she fullness for Indian AF.

as already posted

Pakistan Air Force (PAF) had no aircraft in its inventory which can come close to the MiG-25's cruising altitude (up to 74,000 feet).

So its quiet useful for IAF

 

[SQ8]

MIG 25 FOXBAT is not a runner , It is invincible in the skies of the enemy and aptly suits to be a king. It do not have to run because of enemies since no enemy can conquer it at that heights and speed.
It is also leathel with missiles.

Not entirely, The Mig-25 Never stays for a fight.. its a runner.
Back in Desert Storm..the kill scored by the Mig-25 over a FA/18C was a hit and run attack with a R-40.
Other than that, they have been defeated over and over again by aircraft such as the F-5E and F-15.
They survived due to speed.

When it came to the Mig runs over Pakistan, the typical pattern was to use the U racetrack pattern..
The Jet would climb up to 50k+ feet under mil thrust to conserve maximum fuel.. then near the DMZ push it up to mach 2.5- 2.8.. That run at that speed had them in and out of Pak airspace within 3-6 minutes. People forget that places like Kahuta or Islamabad are literally within arms reach of india... what do you think the obsession with strategic depth has been all about??
Within the warning the PAF had about the time they had nothing that could get up there and even if it could.. get up there fast enough.

But even then, the IAF never stuck around... high speed in and outs..

 

[karan.1970]

Not entirely, The Mig-25 Never stays for a fight.. its a runner.
Back in Desert Storm..the kill scored by the Mig-25 over a FA/18C was a hit and run attack with a R-40.
Other than that, they have been defeated over and over again by aircraft such as the F-5E and F-15.
They survived due to speed.

When it came to the Mig runs over Pakistan, the typical pattern was to use the U racetrack pattern..
The Jet would climb up to 50k+ feet under mil thrust to conserve maximum fuel.. then near the DMZ push it up to mach 2.5- 2.8.. That run at that speed had them in and out of Pak airspace within 3-6 minutes. People forget that places like Kahuta or Islamabad are literally within arms reach of india... what do you think the obsession with strategic depth has been all about??
Within the warning the PAF had about the time they had nothing that could get up there and even if it could.. get up there fast enough.

But even then, the IAF never stuck around... high speed in and outs..

I guess that's what airwar is all about. Be where your enemy can't reach you but you can reach him. BVR actually is just a more elegant way of being a "runner"

 

[Hellraiser007]

Invincible/king isn't decided if it can escape a rag tag third world air force, try china for size

Mate the title is related to South Asia and we are discussing south Asian scenario, so title suits MIG 25 since there is no answer from the other side.
@Oscar when some fighter jet is on its own league and tactics and there is no answer from the other side, which can also pierce the skies of enemy at will and also can attack.
You can say that one as an invincible one and fit to be a king.

 

[SQ8]

Would like to hear more on this regard,if not classified.

Classified or not, think of it as the equivalent of the Canadian CF-105 Arrow programs in their relative spheres being cancelled or dropped simply because actionable intel indicated that India was nowhere in that field.

The paranoia of the arms race is what kept many things in Pakistan from happening, and eventually many bright folks with talent walked away to the west and elsewhere due to this bureaucratic thinking.

an Example would be a system to be put into the Al-Khalid that was revolutionary in terms of what it brought in into that field of tank systems in the sub-continent. People had their homework done, it was simply a matter of developing it.
But no authorization was given because it was feared that the IA might react to it and end up purchasing off-the shelf systems from western suppliers to try and counter it and that is what Pakistan may not be able to match.
Even though the intended capability would have placed the AK as one of the most electronically survivable tanks EVER in the history of modern warfare.. it was never put in.

There is another that I have stated earlier in my article , that system would have the current L-3 simulators purchased by the PAF feel like video games. But due to a lot of factors it never went through.
Many other systems met their fate that way and the people of talent walked away.
now the Pakistani defense industry acts very much like the Chinese one, trying to reverse engineer then improve/adapt systems from all over the world. Never actually innovating to create something of their own.
There are a few exceptions in AWC and elsewhere.. but on a general level.. its simply "make me exactly that" and not "make me something that can match that or be better".

 

[SQ8]

Mate the title is related to South Asia and we are discussing south Asian scenario, so title suits MIG 25 since there is no answer from the other side.
@Oscar when some fighter jet is on its own league and tactics and there is no answer from the other side, which can also pierce the skies of enemy at will and also can attack.
You can say that one as an invincible one and fit to be a king.

Yeah sure, whatever.

I guess that's what airwar is all about. Be where your enemy can't reach you but you can reach him. BVR actually is just a more elegant way of being a "runner"

Yeah , Kill em with Film.

 

[janon]

Yeah , Kill em with Film.

India bought the reconnaissance version. But the mig-25 was probably the best "pure interceptor", and would have performed remarkably in that role. The moment enemy fighters were detected at the border, mig-25s could take off, fire their AA missiles, and return. Today mig-31 does that role for the RuAF. It also helps that it has the most powerful radar put on a combat aircraft. Fly fast and high, detect, shoot, return. They were never intended to be fighters, just interceptors.

Also, reconnaissance is a valuable tool too, as I'm sure you know. Even though they don't "kill with film", you know the value of clicking away pics of strategic locations, and how it can later help score kills in war. So indirectly, they could have led to kills.

 

[RazorMC]

... Also, reconnaissance is a valuable tool too, as I'm sure you know. Even though they don't "kill with film", you know the value of clicking away pics of strategic locations, and how it can later help score kills in war. So indirectly, they could have led to kills.

Satellites and AEW&Cs do that now with much more efficiency and precision.
The Foxbat was a pretty good concept built around high-altitude flights and interception. Ultimately it proved largely fruitless against its main rival, the BlackBird, and other newer aircraft of the time like the Eagle which were designed to counter the Foxbat.

@Oscar,
Our problem lies with this mentality of constantly being on the defensive. We only build what we need, we hardly worked on what our nation is going to need in the coming years. There is an absolutely short-sighted approach to almost everything we've done from Foreign Policy to weapons manufacturing, Infrastructure to Education.

 

[perplexed]

Satellites and AEW&Cs do that now with much more efficiency and precision.
The Foxbat was a pretty good concept built around high-altitude flights and interception. Ultimately it proved largely fruitless against its main rival, the BlackBird, and other newer aircraft of the time like the Eagle which were designed to counter the Foxbat.

What cr@p theory is this ? Mig-25 with IAF proved its mettle. PERIOD. It couldn't counter SR-71 is a different issue since PAF never had it..

 

[janon]

Satellites and AEW&Cs do that now with much more efficiency and precision.
The Foxbat was a pretty good concept built around high-altitude flights and interception. Ultimately it proved largely fruitless against its main rival, the BlackBird, and other newer aircraft of the time like the Eagle which were designed to counter the Foxbat.

Yes, satellites can do that much more efficiently today. However, how many countries can send military spy satellites into space, and get the required resolution? Even India, with its long and successful space program, has only recently sent its own spy satellites, and the first was done with Israeli help (the satellite itself, not the launching.) For most countries that don't have a space program, the best bet would be to depend on a foreign country's satellite feeds (unlikely), or send recon aircrafts into enemy airspace. Buying a mig-31 from Russia would be a lot easier than designing and launching a spy satellite.

The mig-25s served the IAF well, and don't have a role anymore as you said, which is why they have been retired, and the IAF never went for its successor, the mig-31 - although Russia has hundreds of them in service currently. They use them mostly as interceptors, rather than for reconnaissance.

Are you sure the eagle was designed to counter the foxbat? The eagles can't match them in speed or flight ceiling, and the mig 25s wouldn't pick a dogfight with them anyway. It was the mig 29s, and later the flankers that were expected to fight the eagles. How exactly would the eagles counter the foxbats, if all that the foxbats would do are take off from afar, launch a salvo of missiles at an incoming flight of eagles, and return to base?

 

[surya kiran]

Even India, with its long and successful space program, has only recently sent its own spy satellites, and the first was done with Israeli help (the satellite itself, not the launching.)

Not really. the israeli thing is a recent phenomenon. We had satellitate surveillance capabilities for atleast 2 decades.