The UK's EU referendum: All you need to know

[LeveragedBuyout]

I didn't even consider this at all as a possibility. That is an interesting option but how much resistance would there be for that in the UK?

To be honest, I produced that option off the cuff, and have not read of anyone else proposing it. I don't know how the British would receive such an idea, but superficially, it checks the boxes: free trade without the immigration or slush-fund payments. And it helps that we already share a common language, common-law legal system, and a generally laissez-faire view of markets and the role of government. On the other hand, the overlap between the Euroskeptics and the anti-American mob is quite large, as I understand it. We'll see, it's early days, yet.

Why are you against the Obamacare ?
Even the most conservative parts of France support the national health service and we have difficulties understanding why a lot of people in the US see that an obligatory health insurance scheme for all could be a bad thing ?
Feel free to enlighten me !
-
Anyway, the situation of the NHS was very critical under the EU,I guess it would become even worse now.

Our healthcare system is terrible in the US, with far higher costs and far worse outcomes. I admit that openly. But Obamacare is not the correct solution, because it puts us on the spectrum of socialized medicine. As you pointed out, the core component is obligatory health insurance. That level of state intervention is alien to America's founding values (as are many other atrocities against the Constitution imposed by Democrats and Republicans alike), but to have the government determine which hospitals one can visit, which doctors one can see, what medicines one is allowed to take--it's a bridge too far. These are literally life or death matters, and best left to the individual to decide. I am a pragmatist, and I believe that there should be a social safety net for those unable to afford health care, but there is a difference between the poor and deadbeats who don't pay until they have an emergency that needs to be addressed. Obamacare doesn't help the former: healthcare premiums have skyrocketed since the implementation of Obamacare, and the deductible, or the amount that patients must pay before insurance begins to cover costs, is now in the thousands of dollars, which is crippling to the middle class, let alone the poor. Obamacare primarily benefits deadbeats.

The NHS, specifically, is an abomination, with terrible service, long wait times, and a fatal dependence on cheap foreign labor to enable it to function. Hardly a model for the world, and in dire need of restructuring. Unfortunately, due to the cult-like worship of the NHS in Britain, no one is allowed to touch it unless a crisis emerges. ("Ring-fenced" finances = no accountability). The Brexit could catalyze such a crisis, which would be helpful to the British healthcare system in the long run, and thus I see this outcome as desirable.

I am unfamiliar with the French system, but I would be open to emulating it if it's more market-based than the NHS.

 

[flamer84]

they freed themselves from the mess, the refugee burden is on all of you lot now

After BREXIT more agressive steps towards the refugee problem will be taken or else the EU falls.It's their last chance.

 

[AmirPatriot]

Young people's votes got pushed out by leave. All they talk about is immigration, immigration, immigration. They put xenophobia above prosperity.

I hope this ends Cameron's political career. He took a stupid gamble and now he's ruined it all.

 

[xenon54 out]

To be honest, I produced that option off the cuff, and have not read of anyone else proposing it. I don't know how the British would receive such an idea, but superficially, it checks the boxes: free trade without the immigration or slush-fund payments. And it helps that we already share a common language, common-law legal system, and a generally laissez-faire view of markets and the role of government. On the other hand, the overlap between the Euroskeptics and the anti-American mob is quite large, as I understand it. We'll see, it's early days, yet.



Our healthcare system is terrible in the US, with far higher costs and far worse outcomes. I admit that openly. But Obamacare is not the correct solution, because it puts us on the spectrum of socialized medicine. As you pointed out, the core component is obligatory health insurance. That level of state intervention is alien to America's founding values (as are many other atrocities against the Constitution imposed by Democrats and Republicans alike), but to have the government determine which hospitals one can visit, which doctors one can see, what medicines one is allowed to take--it's a bridge too far. These are literally life or death matters, and best left to the individual to decide. I am a pragmatist, and I believe that there should be a social safety net for those unable to afford health care, but there is a difference between the poor and deadbeats who don't pay until they have an emergency that needs to be addressed. Obamacare doesn't help the former: healthcare premiums have skyrocketed since the implementation of Obamacare, and the deductible, or the amount that patients must pay before insurance begins to cover costs, is now in the thousands of dollars, which is crippling to the middle class, let alone the poor. Obamacare primarily benefits deadbeats.

The NHS, specifically, is an abomination, with terrible service, long wait times, and a fatal dependence on cheap foreign labor to enable it to function. Hardly a model for the world, and in dire need of restructuring. Unfortunately, due to the cult-like worship of the NHS in Britain, no one is allowed to touch it unless a crisis emerges. ("Ring-fenced" finances = no accountability). The Brexit could catalyze such a crisis, which would be helpful to the British healthcare system in the long run, and thus I see this outcome as desirable.

I am unfamiliar with the French system, but I would be open to emulating it if it's more market-based than the NHS.

Oh look who came back, hows it going dude long time since you posted here.

 

[xenon54 out]

Young people's votes got pushed out by leave. All they talk about is immigration, immigration, immigration. They put xenophobia above prosperity.

I hope this ends Cameron's political career. He took a stupid gamble and now he's ruined it all.

Thats exactly what right wing wanted, all the right wing of continental Europe is cheering the result.

 

[LeveragedBuyout]

Oh look who came back, hows it going dude long time since you posted here.

Hi @xenon54 , it's been a while. I never quite left (I was still lurking), but I have been shamed into participating again with the TTA elevation. Soon the PDF staff will realize their mistake and demote me, but in the interim, I feel a sense of obligation to contribute constructively to threads and try to show that we can accomplish much more by reasoned debate (preferably well-sourced) than by mud-slinging. Fingers crossed.

I also occasionally visit AMF under a different username, and I believe you joined as well, but I'm not a military guy, so there's less for me to see or do there.

 

[Vergennes]

Our healthcare system is terrible in the US, with far higher costs and far worse outcomes. I admit that openly. But Obamacare is not the correct solution, because it puts us on the spectrum of socialized medicine. As you pointed out, the core component is obligatory health insurance. That level of state intervention is alien to America's founding values (as are many other atrocities against the Constitution imposed by Democrats and Republicans alike), but to have the government determine which hospitals one can visit, which doctors one can see, what medicines one is allowed to take--it's a bridge too far. These are literally life or death matters, and best left to the individual to decide. I am a pragmatist, and I believe that there should be a social safety net for those unable to afford health care, but there is a difference between the poor and deadbeats who don't pay until they have an emergency that needs to be addressed. Obamacare doesn't help the former: healthcare premiums have skyrocketed since the implementation of Obamacare, and the deductible, or the amount that patients must pay before insurance begins to cover costs, is now in the thousands of dollars, which is crippling to the middle class, let alone the poor. Obamacare primarily benefits deadbeats.

The NHS, specifically, is an abomination, with terrible service, long wait times, and a fatal dependence on cheap foreign labor to enable it to function. Hardly a model for the world, and in dire need of restructuring. Unfortunately, due to the cult-like worship of the NHS in Britain, no one is allowed to touch it unless a crisis emerges. ("Ring-fenced" finances = no accountability). The Brexit could catalyze such a crisis, which would be helpful to the British healthcare system in the long run, and thus I see this outcome as desirable.

I understand now,thanks.

I am unfamiliar with the French system, but I would be open to emulating it if it's more market-based than the NHS.

You can learn everything about the french healthcare system here ;

http://about-france.com/health-care.htm

What is your opinion ?

 

[xenon54 out]

Hi @xenon54 , it's been a while. I never quite left (I was still lurking), but I have been shamed into participating again with the TTA elevation. Soon the PDF staff will realize their mistake and demote me, but in the interim, I feel a sense of obligation to contribute constructively to threads and try to show that we can accomplish much more by reasoned debate (preferably well-sourced) than by mud-slinging. Fingers crossed.

I also occasionally visit AMF under a different username, and I believe you joined as well, but I'm not a military guy, so there's less for me to see or do there.

Looking at all the TTA's here you are one of the few people who deserve it, anyways nice to read your posts again, a nice break from the troll horde recently.

Edit: ok dont wanna be harsh, many TTA's are good posters, certainly much better than me but the title has been given to too many people who dont deserve it.

I also occasionally visit AMF under a different username, and I believe you joined as well, but I'm not a military guy, so there's less for me to see or do there.

Yeah im there from time to time, whats your name there?

 

[Styx]

Except that they don't have the numbers to support this as statistics clearly point that EU migrants give more than they take to the British economy.They lost more today than 5 years of EU contributions and they will loose more.

I was referring specifically to the recent refugee influx, not migrants in general.

Germany has taken in millions, and most, I'm guessing, are not very highly skilled, they will drive down blue collar wages for the natives.. good for oligarchs and industrialists, not so good for the everyday citizen.

 

[livingdead]

Young people's votes got pushed out by leave. All they talk about is immigration, immigration, immigration. They put xenophobia above prosperity.

I hope this ends Cameron's political career. He took a stupid gamble and now he's ruined it all.

prosperity came to rich and middle class, not to poor. when you are working class and are feeling wage compression, you dont think about addition to GDP due to migration.. you think why is your family getting poorer.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Too early to call this, people/polls/bookies also called remained by a good margin. We do not even know for sure if there is going to be another referendum. After a year or 2 we will have a picture, Plenty of options on the way before all the above.

Sorry, it's not uncertain, Brexit WILL BE bad for our economy for the foreseeable future, we're just discussing how bad, slump or recession.

I guaranteed it last night, speaking to some acquaintances, I told them to get some snacks and watch carnage on the FTSE unfold the next morning and it did, worst performance in years, banks like barclays were down 30% at one point and are still down about 10%. I told them Scotland is probably going to get its independence, First Minister Nicola Sturgeon just announced that it's highly likely. I also said in that post you quoted that our growth forecast would need to be revised down. And not even hours in to day one of Brexit, and JP Morgan cuts forecasts for Britain. The Bank of England has been providing liquidity to markets all day, and it too is now expecting weak economic performance, talks about rate cuts perhaps and definitely some quantitative easing.

These aren't some profound visions of the future I had, these were obvious consequences that economists had talked about for months, anyone somewhat versed in economics would know this.

I understand now,thanks.

You can learn everything about the french healthcare system here ;

http://about-france.com/health-care.htm

What is your opinion ?

Hey, how is this thing brexit being perceived in France?

I'm curious to know, fear, anger, disbelief, disappointment? Would love to hear from someone in France following this story.

 

[LeveragedBuyout]

I understand now,thanks.

You can learn everything about the french healthcare system here ;

http://about-france.com/health-care.htm

What is your opinion ?

It sounds similar enough to the US system (the old system) that I would be favorably inclined towards exploring it as an option for the US. However, the paragraph at the bottom explaining that the French healthcare system is also experiencing financial difficulties leads me to believe that it may not be the solution we need. If we are going to reform our system, we need to do it once, correctly, and permanently. If we institute a reform that inevitably leads to financial ruin (e.g. Obamacare), it's a useless reform. If the French system finds a way to permanently control costs and remain solvent while preserving patient choice, I think it will be a viable model for the US--but that's a very, very difficult problem to solve without looking like the NHS and using wait-lists, rationing, and price controls.

Nevertheless, thanks for the introduction. The French system certainly merits further study, so I will continue to research it.

 

[Deliorman]

Britain has the potential to be successful even if it's not a member of the EU. London is a world capital and arguably the most important city worldwide- a center of trade, fashion, finance, transport, sports, culture all the way between Hong Kong to Dubai to Vancouver. Those who are now wishing the worst to Britain will be very disappointed to know that Britain and it's biggest corporations operate worldwide and that the country has a strong economical relations with economies like the USA, Canada, China, Gulf countries, Australia and New Zealand, South Africa, India in most of it's former colonies a lot of whom are still under it's Crown. Britain exiting the EU also doesn't mean the trade will stop completely as Europe also needs Britain. Great Britain is not a poor Eastern European country that begs the EU for money on every 5 years- it is (or maybe was ) a country that pays much more money to the budget of the EU so poor countries from the East can get funded...

EU will lose more than Britain and I wish good luck to the British great nation! This EU was getting more and more retarded with time anyway so the faster it is gone, the better.

 

[LeveragedBuyout]

Yeah im there from time to time, whats your name there?

"Capitalist" (LeveragedBuyout was rejected as too long). But I visit only infrequently.

 

[JanjaWeed]

Bad move for Britain! Just what Scottish nationalists wanted.. just the oxygen needed to re-energize their stalled independence demand. Another referendum is not far away. Northern Ireland will try to gain something out of today's shock result. Downing street should have expected this before boldly announcing the referendum!

Then again.. Brussels won't be spared either. There will be wave of demands for referendum in other countries such as Netherlands, France, Denmark, Sweden etc.. Today's result is a lose-lose situation for both EU & UK!