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The Truth about Gwadar

I just saw one Senator Samanullah (?) from Balochistan National Party on Hard Talk (BBC).

Interesting comments by him.

One of the issues he raised is that development in any state of Pakistan is decided and controlled by the Central govt in Islamabad.

Is that correct?

Should not the development and other local issues be decided and organised by the State govt as is done in any country (which is federal in constitution) of the world?

Why should the central govt control development and decide the same?
 
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Salim said:
I just saw one Senator Samanullah (?) from Balochistan National Party on Hard Talk (BBC).

Interesting comments by him.

One of the issues he raised is that development in any state of Pakistan is decided and controlled by the Central govt in Islamabad.

Is that correct?

Should not the development and other local issues be decided and organised by the State govt as is done in any country (which is federal in constitution) of the world?

Why should the central govt control development and decide the same?


:lol: Good One!!

You indians are so clever.
 
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RAPTOR said:
:lol: Good One!!

You indians are so clever.

Realised it rather late in the day, what ho, old bean?!:P

Could you be kind enough to comment on the content and if the view requires any rectification?

I am sure that would add to the discussion and knowledge, rather than these inane bilge.
 
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Gwader is well outside Baloch territory, its Makrani. And it was Omani, until Ayub..... convinced them to sell i to us. It was assinged to Balochistan then.
 
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sigatoka said:
Bull u wud pay for house insurance agaisnt fire when it is very likely that your house will probably never be burnt down. However you are willing to pay good money to the insurance company for it, the value of Gwadar has two components.

1. Economic Value
2. Insurance (military) value

The military value can be calculated and valued in much the same way you decide how much to pay for house insurance. (the author specifically ignores the insurance value)


Secondly UAE is a dessert, however govt. building world class infrastructure has brought the commerce to the dessert.

Well insurance premium ought to be cheaper than the cost of the house,if no then its isnt viable.

Paksitans cost of developing Gwadar is far more than just a insurance premium.

They wont be able to keep it oiled without commerce or trade thru that port to be used as a buffer for Karachi if war breaks out..
 
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Asim Aquil said:
The loooong tantrum against the Mekraan Coastal highway is nothing new. But aren't we ignoring the fact that Gwadar is ALSO to be connected to the National Highway which runs from south to north?

It's not done yet. Karachi is basically the closest big city and the base of operations in getting Gwadar up and running. The City ain't done yet... Connectivity would be Gwadar's TOP trump card when it's done.

And the other fact that for 600 km there's nothing there? Hmmm well that's not true tens of projects are underconstruction its not just a port that we're building we're building a port city. Of course people never thought Dubai would get off either but it did. Fact is when the ports come in, port related businesses come in too.

Virtually all the commercial property in Gwadar is already sold, what does that tell you about it?

And the third rant that there's little activity for 1000km around Gwadar, well then, hello that IS the point. Gwadar will be the center, unchallenged, uncontested. It's not like the Pak government is relying on people to come in with their money and build a city. We're building a city and making it easy for people to come in.

Nothing but ancient rants.

Asim,

im not aware of commercial property aroubnd gwadar being sold.It depends on who has bought it and whast happening over there now.The author says a part of the port was completed long time back and nothing has hapened.So if the commercial property is going as hot cakes you should already have seen booming commerce thru there.So why hasnt that happened?

Has pakistans commerce or trade grown or boomed to such an extend that called for a extra port?Has karachi become so conjested that a new port was a necessity?

And also a good part of the funding has come from China,so whats China getting back in return?
 
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sparten said:
Gwader is well outside Baloch territory, its Makrani. And it was Omani, until Ayub..... convinced them to sell i to us. It was assinged to Balochistan then.

sell gwadar to us??who is us?
whats makrani???
 
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Us is Pakistan.
Makranis are people who live there. They are a Negroid people. decendents of Africans who migrated to what is now Pakistan a few centuries ago.
Boxer lassi Mehrullah is an example.
 
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Bull said:
Asim,

im not aware of commercial property aroubnd gwadar being sold.
Tons!
It depends on who has bought it and whast happening over there now.The author says a part of the port was completed long time back and nothing has hapened.So if the commercial property is going as hot cakes you should already have seen booming commerce thru there.So why hasnt that happened?

Has pakistans commerce or trade grown or boomed to such an extend that called for a extra port?Has karachi become so conjested that a new port was a necessity?

And also a good part of the funding has come from China,so whats China getting back in return?

Port Qasim (Khi), cannot deal with a number of things. I mean I haven't seen it, but I've seen the Dubai ports, and you could just tell that a world class operation is at place when you see the insides of them.

From the top of my head:

1. Storage facilities. And you need these of all kinds. In Dubai there's a whole field (of big containers) of storage facilities for perishables. Another field for cars, another for electronics, another for glass items, the list endless.

To introduce that NOW in Karachi? Near impossible.

2. Transport Facilities. There's no rail connection in Dubai but all of UAE's not big at all, and there are top notch road access to the Jebel Ali Port. The port lies directly on the Emirates Highway, from which connects with Dubai/Sharjah bypassing the city and going through the desert, and which it inturn is connected directly to the Al Ain/Oman Highway, Abu Dhabi Highway, Ras Al Khaimah, Saudi Arabia.

And to top it all off from Jebel Ali to the Dubai Airport through the Emirates high way takes like 5 minutes.

The Mekraan coastal highway is not the Emirates Highway for Gwadar. That's a whole different project for real estate development of the Coast. The equivalent of the Emirates Highway is something better that we have is National highway. Which connects, Karachi to China. Much of this Highway is being replaced by modern Motorways since the national Highway cannot be further modernized, widened, etc. The national highway includes much of the old GT road (Karachi to Lahore, Lahore to Delhi).

For this purpose Gwadar will be connected with motorways and rail links. Again from South to North, all the way to China. Hence bringin in access from all of Pakistan.

3. Oil processing: Pak has just launched work n a $2Bn Oil refinery in the neighboring Lasbella district. Gwadar is to have oil transporting/storing facility. And new plans are underway to connect Pakistan's oilpipeline network all the way to China. Arab Oil can easily be taken in at Gwadar and transported through oil pipelines to whoever needs it, including Pakistan.

Bringing oil pipelines to Karachi is near impossible.

4. Security. We all know India attacked the Karachi port. Its right there along with our first lines of defence. If our main port is shifted a few hundred kilometers back, its some added protection.

The focus is the Port, of course, but remember we're making a CITY, not just a port. The port is going to be the main asset for that city.

sell gwadar to us??who is us?
Gwadar was Omani territory till the 60s, Pakistan bought it off.
whats makrani???
Bedouin like Arab locals who've become Pakistanis now.
 
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Asim Aquil said:
1. Storage facilities. And you need these of all kinds. In Dubai there's a whole field (of big containers) of storage facilities for perishables. Another field for cars, another for electronics, another for glass items, the list endless.

To introduce that NOW in Karachi? Near impossible.
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So then if all is moved to Gwadar why do u need karachi for?use it a dedictaed PN base?

Asim Aquil said:
2. Transport Facilities. There's no rail connection in Dubai but all of UAE's not big at all, and there are top notch road access to the Jebel Ali Port. The port lies directly on the Emirates Highway, from which connects with Dubai/Sharjah bypassing the city and going through the desert, and which it inturn is connected directly to the Al Ain/Oman Highway, Abu Dhabi Highway, Ras Al Khaimah, Saudi Arabia.

And to top it all off from Jebel Ali to the Dubai Airport through the Emirates high way takes like 5 minutes.


Whom are you saying this to...Dubai airport to Jebelali airport in 5 mins?
Dubai port lies on emirates highway?
Asim where are you located?


Asim Aquil said:
For this purpose Gwadar will be connected with motorways and rail links. Again from South to North, all the way to China. Hence bringin in access from all of Pakistan.

Rail links?has work started?

Asim Aquil said:
3. Oil processing: Pak has just launched work n a $2Bn Oil refinery in the neighboring Lasbella district. Gwadar is to have oil transporting/storing facility. And new plans are underway to connect Pakistan's oilpipeline network all the way to China. Arab Oil can easily be taken in at Gwadar and transported through oil pipelines to whoever needs it, including Pakistan.
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Whats the refining capaicty?


Asim Aquil said:
The focus is the Port, of course, but remember we're making a CITY, not just a port. The port is going to be the main asset for that city.

Asset or liabilty? The city will only survive if the port succeeds?

You havent answered the main question i asked

What would the Gwadar port trade?
Oil? Is $2bn refinery going to need so much of crude to justify a port for itself.
Consumer durables?
vegetables?

Has the import/export of any such items zoomed that karachi port wont be able to handle it,so the need for a new port.
 
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Bull said:
So then if all is moved to Gwadar why do u need karachi for?use it a dedictaed PN base?
It already hosts a military shipyard. I think that will be moved to a new naval base in between Karachi and Gwadar, to avoid collateral damage, unless of course India intentionally targets the civillian port.


[/B]
Whom are you saying this to...Dubai airport to Jebelali airport in 5 mins?
Dubai port lies on emirates highway?
Asim where are you located?
I didn't say Port Zayed if that's the confusion. And yeah... Through emirates highway, if you get out from the Rashidiya exit you can come in real quick. You might be confused since its the opposite direction of entering Dubai airport, it even has its own cargo entrances.

Rail links?has work started?
Don't know. But we're a long way away from Gwadar City being done either.

Whats the refining capaicty?
It's a 2 day old development, details will trickle down. So I'm just pointing out the thinking of the planners.

Asset or liabilty? The city will only survive if the port succeeds?
and vice versa of course. Gwadar is profitable, no one said its easy.

You havent answered the main question i asked

What would the Gwadar port trade?
Oh it will largely be a transit trade, when did you ask this question?

Oil? Is $2bn refinery going to need so much of crude to justify a port for itself.
Think about it this way, what'll happen if all All the present Arab oil tankers stop travelling 8000 km to reach China and instead opt to just dump it all off at Gwadar? China's oil requirements alone can fullfill the need of the port.

Has the import/export of any such items zoomed that karachi port wont be able to handle it,so the need for a new port.
Almost every item to and from Central asia to the middle east and fareast would have to go through it. Karachi can't do that in large numbers. Do you know cars imported from Japan goto Dubai first and are brought into Pak afterwards? Karachi just can't handle the volume. Its an old port, made without these things in mind.
 
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Asim Aquil said:
It already hosts a military shipyard. I think that will be moved to a new naval base in between Karachi and Gwadar, to avoid collateral damage, unless of course India intentionally targets the civillian port.

you mean one more ?so a total of three

Asim Aquil said:
Oh it will largely be a transit trade,

Transit trade,you have competition already as in the form of Dubai ports and` also the newly developed iranian transhipment terminal and also the new kochi transhipment terminal.So thats 4 transhipment terminals from south-estern tip to South India.

You think that will be feasible.

Asim Aquil said:
Think about it this way, what'll happen if all All the present Arab oil tankers stop travelling 8000 km to reach China and instead opt to just dump it all off at Gwadar? China's oil requirements alone can fullfill the need of the port.

**** it in Gwadar and hows it going to reach China?Pipeline through the pass or road.The author of the article has noted that half of the time the karakoram pass is closed.

And also i think you missed this...
whats China's share of the kill???
 
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well of cource like any other big projects the gwadar project also has its share of plus and minus points, but we also have to see that alot of money has been poured in it plus china has contributed to a large extent, so there has to be something realy stratagic and positive about it the chinese are known to value money and will not invest so much for waste as pointed by bull earlire, the chinese have infact invested in the building of the gwadar project there must be a reason for it but we still have to go a long way i agree
 
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genmirajborgza786 said:
well of cource like any other big projects the gwadar project also has its share of plus and minus points, but we also have to see that alot of money has been poured in it plus china has contributed to a large extent, so there has to be something realy stratagic and positive about it the chinese are known to value money and will not invest so much for waste as pointed by bull earlire, the chinese have infact invested in the building of the gwadar project there must be a reason for it but we still have to go a long way i agree

We are trying to figure out what it would be...???
 
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Whatever this so called expert on Gwadar says....Gwadar is a neccesary strategic port city for Pakistan.

- Second Megaport after Karachi

-Gateway to Central Asia

-Strategic Naval port to monitor the Arabian Sea.

-Secure oil route to China from Saudi Arabia ,UAE,Qatar.

-Strategic depth in case hindoostan gets the rash and attacks Pakistan.

-Secure oil pipelines into Pakistan from the Gulf.

-Establishment of Mega industries.

-Seafood processing plants

-The relocation of Sialkots Sports and Surgical goods industry to Gwadar.

-Relocation of the Textile industry from Faisalabad to Gwadar to better avail of shipment /Warehousing facilities.

-Creation of a modern megapolis on Pakistan's western most flank.

-Safe docking facilities for the Chinese Navy.

-Establishment of PAK/CHINA strategic Naval bases.

-A sea link for the Land Locked Central Asian republics.

-A source of income and development for ordinary Balochis

-Tax Free industrian zones.

-Mega resorts and Yatching facilities, Beaches ,Tourist attractions


Karachi is a Megacity of over 20 million people. It has its limits in terms of infrastructure and port facilities. Gwadar was urgently needed Yesterday!!
 
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