The Thorn in the Garden | Terrorism in Indo-Pak relations.

[Alpha1]

or raped and forced to convert.

You people and Saudis put me to shame.A Blight on humanity and Islam you are.

I may despise the many saudis much more than you.
But to say , that most of the people were converted by force is pure Bs. It is not even allowed in Islam convert anyone by force!

no i dont think so.
people dont convert unless compelled orr induced. only vrey rarely this happens voluntarily

Depends upon the Charm of religion I guess!

 

[sovcomflot]

I may despise the many saudis much more than you.
But to say , that most of the people were converted by force is pure Bs. It is not even allowed in Islam convert anyone by force!


Depends upon the Charm of religion I guess!

I may despise the many saudis much more than you.
But to say , that most of the people were converted by force is pure Bs. It is not even allowed in Islam convert anyone by force!

Like the Wahabbi FSA which is converting christians by force? or Like the sunni terrorists killing shias in Iraq?

Or like the Rinkle kumari case?

 

[jetti]

I may despise the many saudis much more than you.
But to say , that most of the people were converted by force is pure Bs. It is not even allowed in Islam convert anyone by force!


Depends upon the Charm of religion I guess!

yea, again as i said its not a common occurance - that says a lot about the charm of religon. eg AR rahman converted afer a pir helped him - but according to muslims peers are unislamic.

 

[Alpha1]

yea, again as i said its not a common occurance - that says a lot about the charm of religon. eg AR rahman converted afer a pir helped him - but according to muslims peers are unislamic.

No! Islam is the fastest growing religion and what do you mean by pir?
Anyhow it doesn't matter who helps you convert as long as you recite the kalima
anyways get back to the topic

 

[jetti]

No! Islam is the fastest growing religion and what do you mean by pir?
Anyhow it doesn't matter who helps you convert as long as you recite the kalima
anyways get back to the topic

ahmadis also recite kalma.
you dont know peer?

 

[SarthakGanguly]

No! Islam is the fastest growing religion and what do you mean by pir?
Anyhow it doesn't matter who helps you convert as long as you recite the kalima
anyways get back to the topic

"Islam is the fastest growing religion" - No it is not.
But yeah better to be on topic

 

[cloud_9]

No! Islam is the fastest growing religion and what do you mean by pir?
Anyhow it doesn't matter who helps you convert as long as you recite the kalima
anyways get back to the topic

What's the use of this fastest growing thing when the Muslims are getting killed in huge numbers by Muslims.The only end to this fastest growing fantasy I see is that everyone will convert to Islam and kill each other.Good bye human race

 

[rafiqali]

Ah... the greatest troll returns you know I have had some talks with the upper management of having such articles open for all members as we would discuss and grow but people like you give credence to their views. Anyho, this would be my last answer to you as I know you come here to fuel yourself on ultranationalism.

Let me confess that my emotionally provocative response to your post was planned and deliberate. I strongly suspected that your ship was sailing under false colors. And while the flags proclaimed reason and understanding, the cargo was as always - a visceral animus towards India and inflexibility of positions coupled with a dangerous mix of delusive self justifications. I am only a bit surprised that it took so little provocation to expose the standard Pakistani thought process concealed under a thin layer of faux reasonableness and willingness to explore deeper issues.

Of course, as always, the message is standard Pak obstinacy - Give us the whole of Kashmir. Give us all we want, and we wont yield anything in return. This has been your projection in war, and the same is being advanced, couched in a language of prudence and restraint, in so called peace overtures.

It is, as India always suspected, war by other means for the goals remain as unreasonable and unyielding. A zero sum game with a handsome harvest for Pakistan, and unmitigated loss for India.

It amazes me that Pakistan can be so deluded as to imagine that goals which could not be achieved through war can now be demanded by appealing to the good sense of the opponent. How can you be so blind that you fail to appreciate that legal dispute redressal processes (The UN resolution on Kashmir) is null and void after Pakistan has employed force to achieve its objectives. The entire world, except Pakistan, recognizes that after repeated hostilities, The UN process is now meaningless - which is why the issue must be resolved bilaterally.

This of course will happen, as other posters have pointed out, only if there is give and take. Asking for unilateral concessions, while being far weaker than the other party, is a daydream only Pak is capable of conjuring.

 

[OrionHunter]

Until Kashmir issue is solved Sir no one will stop Sir Kashmir is key to ultimate peace between India and Pakistan but that will never happen

Zarvan, while I appreciate your sentiments as regards to Kashmir, let's be practical on the issue. Here are some facts. It's no point following propaganda churned out by vested interests.

Firstly, a plebiscite according to the UN Resolutions would be a non starter. Worse still, even if a plebiscite came about, the environment in Kashmir has changed so much that according to the latest survey by researchers from the London-based think-tank Chatham House, not a single person favored annexation with Pakistan, a notion that remains the bedrock for the hardline separate campaign in Kashmir.

However, the study by Robert Bradrock, a scholar from London's Kings College, that involved interviewing people in both parts of Kashmir in September-October 2009 showed that 44% of people on the Pakistani side of Kashmir favored independence, compared to 43% in Indian Kashmir.

Now then, if hypothetically speaking, the whole of Jammu & Kashmir including Gilgit - Baltistan is given independence 'as per the wishes of the Kashmiri people' (as the Cliché goes), it would set a dangerous precedent for the whole of South Asia. States would demand independence citing Kashmir's example. Balochis, Sindhis, Pashtoons etc would demand independence too, failing which Pakistan would well face dangerous insurgencies on multiple fronts.

Though the Kashmir imbroglio needs to be sorted out sooner than later, various options and out-of-the-box solutions need be explored.

For starters, the least contentious issues need to be solved like the Sir Creek dispute which is quite doable, as a confidence building measure. Kashmir can wait till statesmen from both sides can put their heads together to thrash out the issue. At the present juncture, there are no such statesmen that can forge a solution acceptable to all. So we need to put Kashmir on the back-burner for now and look at other issues that bedevil our relationship.

However, I would hasten to add that even if the Kashmir dispute is solved to the satisfaction of all parties concerned, the ideological divide will keep hostilities alive and kicking. And that is the crux of the problem.

 

[Fireurimagination]

Let me confess that my emotionally provocative response to your post was planned and deliberate. I strongly suspected that your ship was sailing under false colors. And while the flags proclaimed reason and understanding, the cargo was as always - a visceral animus towards India and inflexibility of positions coupled with a dangerous mix of delusive self justifications. I am only a bit surprised that it took so little provocation to expose the standard Pakistani thought process concealed under a thin layer of faux reasonableness and willingness to explore deeper issues.

Of course, as always, the message is standard Pak obstinacy - Give us the whole of Kashmir. Give us all we want, and we wont yield anything in return. This has been your projection in war, and the same is being advanced, couched in a language of prudence and restraint, in so called peace overtures.

It is, as India always suspected, war by other means for the goals remain as unreasonable and unyielding. A zero sum game with a handsome harvest for Pakistan, and unmitigated loss for India.

It amazes me that Pakistan can be so deluded as to imagine that goals which could not be achieved through war can now be demanded by appealing to the good sense of the opponent. How can you be so blind that you fail to appreciate that legal dispute redressal processes (The UN resolution on Kashmir) is null and void after Pakistan has employed force to achieve its objectives. The entire world, except Pakistan, recognizes that after repeated hostilities, The UN process is now meaningless - which is why the issue must be resolved bilaterally.

This of course will happen, as other posters have pointed out, only if there is give and take. Asking for unilateral concessions, while being far weaker than the other party, is a daydream only Pak is capable of conjuring.

Are you student of English literature of something? You should write books

 

[Jade]

Your countrymen seem to think that as India is now a 'stronger' power they deserve to gain a upper hand in the situation which I take would be that India can dictate what the solution is and frankly that's not happening.

Frankly India doesn't care nor interested in talking about Kashmir with Pakistan, so where is the question of dictating comes? There are two option before Pakistan - come to terms with Indian position on Kashmir or maintain status quo.

 

[Zarvan]

Zarvan, while I appreciate your sentiments as regards to Kashmir, let's be practical on the issue. Here are some facts. It's no point following propaganda churned out by vested interests.

Firstly, a plebiscite according to the UN Resolutions would be a non starter. Worse still, even if a plebiscite came about, the environment in Kashmir has changed so much that according to the latest survey by researchers from the London-based think-tank Chatham House, not a single person favored annexation with Pakistan, a notion that remains the bedrock for the hardline separate campaign in Kashmir.

However, the study by Robert Bradrock, a scholar from London's Kings College, that involved interviewing people in both parts of Kashmir in September-October 2009 showed that 44% of people on the Pakistani side of Kashmir favored independence, compared to 43% in Indian Kashmir.

Now then, if hypothetically speaking, the whole of Jammu & Kashmir including Gilgit - Baltistan is given independence 'as per the wishes of the Kashmiri people' (as the Cliché goes), it would set a dangerous precedent for the whole of South Asia. States would demand independence citing Kashmir's example. Balochis, Sindhis, Pashtoons etc would demand independence too, failing which Pakistan would well face dangerous insurgencies on multiple fronts.

Though the Kashmir imbroglio needs to be sorted out sooner than later, various options and out-of-the-box solutions need be explored.

For starters, the least contentious issues need to be solved like the Sir Creek dispute which is quite doable, as a confidence building measure. Kashmir can wait till statesmen from both sides can put their heads together to thrash out the issue. At the present juncture, there are no such statesmen that can forge a solution acceptable to all. So we need to put Kashmir on the back-burner for now and look at other issues that bedevil our relationship.

However, I would hasten to add that even if the Kashmir dispute is solved to the satisfaction of all parties concerned, the ideological divide will keep hostilities alive and kicking. And that is the crux of the problem.

Mr if you are so sure than go for freed referendum in whole of Kashmir a big slap on face of Indians is waiting you will ser most kashmirs will go for Pakistan Mr and that is why you are avoiding referendum for past 67 years Mr

 

[Slav Defence]

@jaibi initiated analysis about Indo-Pak relations in neutral manner,but instead of supporting his platform,what I have seen is war mongering,show-off and extreme rudeness which is disgusting,this points out the hatered of Indians towards Pakistanis.
We can never come on single platform and have peace talks unless such mindsets are present.
I don't understand it either that if common Indians have no interest in this regard as one sane indian member said once,then how I am seeing extreme hatered then?
Looks like a bunch of immature teenage groups are yelling and complaining rather then mature mindsets.
The objectives of junior think tanks to write or initiate a specific topic is:

-To make a systematic approach
-Diagnose lapses
-Works on possible solutions or atleast come to final conclusion.

 

[rafiqali]

@jaibi initiated analysis about Indo-Pak relations in neutral manner,but instead of supporting his platform,what I have seen is war mongering,show-off and extreme rudeness which is disgusting,this points out the hatered of Indians towards Pakistanis.
We can never come on single platform and have peace talks unless such mindsets are present.
I don't understand it either that if common Indians have no interest in this regard as one sane indian member said once,then how I am seeing extreme hatered then?
Looks like a bunch of immature teenage groups are yelling and complaining rather then mature mindsets.
The objectives of junior think tanks to write or initiate a specific topic is:

-To make a systematic approach
-Diagnose lapses
-Works on possible solutions or atleast come to final conclusion.

Can you state a few solutions which will be acceptable to pakistan?

 

[Slav Defence]

Can you state a few solutions which will be acceptable to pakistan?

Seeing the enitre past crisis,I will suggest Pakistan to work on her foreign policy seeing past Indian nature and attitude.
Pakistan's current regime has not worked on proper foreign policy to keep Indian civil regime on pressure for peace talks or for the sake of stablity,since Pakistan and India can never compromise on Kashmir issue or Siachin issue due to it's economical and geo-political importance therefore I will suggest that Pakistan must strenghthen her relationships with other neighbouring countries,especially Iran and gulf countries and decrease her border tensions with Afghanistan and must resolve TTP issue so that we can again pressurize Indians by re-deploying our major troops on Pak-Ind border,as Indian civil regime has policy in case of Pakistan to keep her in pressure.
Last but not least Pakistan must take strong notice on 'Operation deep strike' which is accepted by Indians themselves,we don't even need to give prove for this,infact Pakistan can eaisly use this reason to build pressure on international level and can make it a powerful reason to back-off from WOT.