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The source cods, the jet and the Control!

whatz the use of source codes when all the code is compiled & burned into embeded chips...? but the fire control devices can be programmed to deactivated whenever the aircraft enters certain lat/ longitude..also certain weapons systems cannot be integrated like BVR missiles in Egyptian F16...
by the time u get the source codes...upgrades will be done to its hardware (plug n play modules), so that old codes will not run on new chips...those who design these things are not Aizeoles to just giveaway these things one fine morning..
 
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whatz the use of source codes when all the code is compiled & burned into embeded chips...? but the fire control devices can be programmed to deactivated whenever the aircraft enters certain lat/ longitude..also certain weapons systems cannot be integrated like BVR missiles in Egyptian F16...

You can extract code from those chips required you have the essential tools, other way is you can generate a Tranfer-Function of that digital system to Reverse Engineer it.
Yeas all weapons cannot be integerated as compatability requirements vary from system to sytem. Its just like you cannot put a PCI Chip in an AGP slot. But there are ways to adress such a need provided the costs dont shoot up as the system will be reengineered to meet the requirements .
 
You can extract code from those chips required you have the essential tools, other way is you can generate a Tranfer-Function of that digital system to Reverse Engineer it.
Yeas all weapons cannot be integerated as compatability requirements vary from system to sytem. Its just like you cannot put a PCI Chip in an AGP slot. But there are ways to adress such a need provided the costs dont shoot up as the system will be reengineered to meet the requirements .

Sir, source code can not be extracted. Period.

Source code needs to be reconstructed from scratch. Reverse engineering doesn't mean to retrieve source code, but to understand the working of the device and then make our own source code.

Source code once compiled cannot be reversed. This is the reason why you can not create your own version of windows, norton, or any other software, whereas in case of linux, the source code is available and hence so many distributions of linux.
 
Sir, source code can not be extracted. Period.

Source code needs to be reconstructed from scratch. Reverse engineering doesn't mean to retrieve source code, but to understand the working of the device and then make our own source code.

Source code once compiled cannot be reversed. This is the reason why you can not create your own version of windows, norton, or any other software, whereas in case of linux, the source code is available and hence so many distributions of linux.

I agree 100%..
The security of a microcontroller is that the code cannot be extracted...and can be made copy proof
 
Thank you all for the valuable info. People the countries were cited as examples so please dont take it personally and or make a comment to p!$$ some one off that might derail the thread. Thank you all.
 
Glad to see some proper quality questions raised here in this forum..kudos to the thread starter!!!

1- If in case of Pakistan's f-16 or any other countries f-16(for examples sake) source codes are held by the US and the owner country. If the owner country decides can they rewrite the whole set of codes again.
Partially correct..I said partially because the if someone owns the source code,then it will be easy for him to modify the code.If u r re-writing the whole code,well in that case u r starting from the scratch,hence u just don't need any examples at all..Though the manual may help to certain extent(a properly acquired source code always comes with a manual).Again from programming point of view,it is easier to modify/add new functionalities to the source code if the language used is an OOP like C++,JAVA(write once,run anywhere) or Python(Google runs on Python :yahoo:).It will be extremely difficult,if not impossible to do the same if the language used is non-OOP like C(Windows XP is mostly written in C).

2- I have ready in an online discussion some where that these codes be as complex as 5 million codes for one jet. How hard are they to crack or rewrite.
Ahhh.... if I try to explain in detail then ill have to create an separate thread if not an entire forum :P..Ill try to explain more later if I have time..For now,let us just say that,it not the lines of code which is the deciding factor for cracking a code.To many people,hacking and cracking translates to be the same thing..Ill provide a link that will help people to understand better...

Cracking and hacking..differences

3- If the producer country gets into bad terms with the owner country can they give the codes to the owners enemies.

Hypothetical situation....technically possible,but i personally dont think this particular step will be taken by any sane person considering there maybe future repercussions to this causing harm in the end...

4- Another example that comes to mind is the Egyptian f-16's allot of people here say that the Israelis might have their codes in hand already (Lets assume that that is correct for arguments sake). How harmful can that be to Egypt, or can the Israelis just by the use of these codes render the Egyptian jets useless, or hack into them.

I dont know much 'bout the programming practices used in programming softwares for guiding a fighter plane(I have never worked in a project like that:disagree:),but so far as my knowledge goes i dont think u can hack into a system even if u know the source code.The best example coming to my mind at this moment is of linux.The source code is freely available to everyone.But linux happens be one of the most protected OS available,widely considered to be more secure than Windows.Most of the servers run on Linux.
Each and every fighter jet used by any particular country must have its own integrated controlling systems,that will have its own security protocols to secure it from external interference.If anybody wishes to hack,he will have to hack into that particular system,which will be extremely difficult if not impossible,with or without the knowledge of the source code.
5- Also I understand that the codes have to be there when a new weapon system is to be integrated in the jet.
If the weapons systems integrated is new to the existing system,the the answer is "yes".

6- And again the same question again, can another country if they have the source codes of a different countries jets in hand effect the jet in anyway.

Having the source code, surely helps a lot.One can modify the code anyhow to integrate new systems into the aircraft,integrate the very fighter jet into an already running infrastructure.This will help in easier usage of the product upto its full potential.If the code is protected,then u can not condition it according to its local requirements,then u can have only limited usages of the product as devised by the distributor.

If u have any kind of doubt..just ask....also,if im wrong at any point,plz correct me.:wave::wave:
 
wahtz the use of code..if u have no idea abt the hardware part..? look in any complex system u will find modules & small embeded chips on board interconnected thru a network of tracks using about dozens layers of PCB and the semiconductors custom chips are mostly hardended to take care of radiation and RF interferences not to speak of military temperature range...

but small traces of exposed PCB tracks (etched in a particular style that will resonate)are enough to pick up a burst of RF signals amplify & process them to manupulate a fly by aircraft....
 
wahtz the use of code..if u have no idea abt the hardware part..? look in any complex system u will find modules & small embeded chips on board interconnected thru a network of tracks using about dozens layers of PCB and the semiconductors custom chips are mostly hardended to take care of radiation and RF interferences not to speak of military temperature range...

but small traces of exposed PCB tracks (etched in a particular style that will resonate)are enough to pick up a burst of RF signals amplify & process them to manupulate a fly by aircraft....

here we are talking about the software that runs the systems mate,not the complexity of the hardware design....
 
No need to worry about this.US would never give these codes to India because US knows if Pakistan goes down conventionally it'll nuke the entire India.So US will ensure there is a credible deterrence of Pakistan against India so as to avoid nuclear war.


For the record you are not the only one with nukes....

Second your missiles still cant reach South while Indian missiles covers whole of pakistan so it is easy for us to nuke whole pakistan but not vice versa.
 
here we are talking about the software that runs the systems mate,not the complexity of the hardware design....

how can u write or rewrite the code if u have no idea about the hardware..? we r not talking about few chips..but a dozen of VLSI's did u understand kiddie....if u look in any code in a textbook u will find most lines of code with some discription in the form of comments..do u believe all the lines..talking about thousand & thousand of lines of code will carry comments hehehe...what about hybernation & parallel processing ? I DON"T THINK we the sub continent fellas will have the IQ's to decipher them..remember that was designed in the 80's..see how US is developed in this fly by wire things
 
how can u write or rewrite the code if u have no idea about the hardware..?
obviously u cannot write a code for a particular hardware if u have dont idea how it interacts.But it will be a bit too much far stretched to conclude that nobody understands just because u consider it to be hard to understand...
we r not talking about few chips..but a dozen of VLSI's did u understand kiddie....

first thing..VLSI is a technology,not any object.So,the phrase 'a dozen of VLSI's' doesnt really mean anything conceivable....

second thing...ill seriously reconsider myself before calling somebody a kid....anyways that particular attitude varies from person to person..
if u look in any code in a textbook u will find most lines of code with some discription in the form of comments..do u believe all the lines..talking about thousand & thousand of lines of code will carry comments hehehe...

thats how you learn coding...thats not how we do coding....
what about hybernation & parallel processing ?

commonly used technologies...what about them???

I DON"T THINK we the sub continent fellas will have the IQ's to decipher them..remember that was designed in the 80's..see how US is developed in this fly by wire things

I feel extremely sorry for you as you feel that way...I was under the impression that intelligence is something that is evenly distributed across the globe,essentially not limited by geographical boundaries...

A little bit of eye opener for you,since you started your post talking about technologies related to electronic hardware design and ended up in insulting all the people of an entire subcontinent......



The picture posted is of Vinod Dham.He is considered as the father of the Pentium chip(i am sure you heard the name of the chip).He served as the Vice-President of Intel's microprocessor product group.he later moved to AMD and led the project that developed the famous K6 processor by AMD...
And guess what???He is from this subcontinent only!!He is from India,the country of which you are a citizen....

Vinod Dham Profile
 
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