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The Slowing of Two Economic Giants

third eye

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http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/15/opinion/the-slowing-of-two-economic-giants.html?pagewanted=1&hp

KOLKATA, India — THE world’s two most populous countries are slowing down. To be sure, China’s output is expected to grow by 7.8 percent this year, and India’s by 5.6 percent — far superior to 2 percent for Japan, 1.7 percent for the United States, 0.9 percent for Britain and a shrinkage (negative 0.6 percent) in the troubled euro zone, the International Monetary Fund projected last week.

But there is no sequel in sight for the 10-percent-plus growth China and India posted in 2010. The West can no longer count on their continued expansion to lift its sagging economies. For 2.5 billion people, the consequences are more dire: in India, less money to strengthen the threadbare social safety net, and in China, possible political instability. What does the slowdown mean for these two giants, and which will come out ahead?

Let’s start with China, the bigger of the two economies. Talk of a global “Beijing consensus” — state-controlled capitalism as an alternative to the “Washington consensus” about how poor countries should develop — has largely disappeared. China’s new leaders are focused on problems at home: battling corruption, reining in the overheated housing market, scaling back the government’s outsize role in the economy, and cracking down on financial speculation.

China may be close to exhausting the possibilities of technological catch-up with the West, particularly in manufacturing. For China to move up the value chain, and become an advanced-manufacturing powerhouse like Germany, it must move beyond off-the-shelf technology and copying rival designs and reap gains from genuine innovation, which can come about only through research and development.

In India, the collusion between Indian billionaires and politicians, while rampant, is somewhat less direct and more subject to political and media scrutiny. In China, collusion between party officials and commercial interests, especially at the local level, has caused widespread popular anger against arbitrary land acquisition and toxic pollution.

The economist and philosopher Amartya Sen recently argued on this page that India has lagged behind China because it had not invested enough in education and health care, which raise living standards and labor productivity.


On the other hand, India’s experience, like America’s, shows how partisan fragmentation in a rambunctious democracy can undermine effective governance. In the last few years the headline economic stories in India have been about pervasive corruption: politicized allocation of high-value public resources (land, mineral rights, oil and gas, telecommunications), shady public-private partnerships and the galloping cost of elections financed by the illicit incomes of politicians. India’s administrative system, where promotion has little connection to performance, encourages even more malfeasance than China’s. But India has independent judges, government auditors and a free press — checks on corruption that are absent in China.

IN both giant countries there are glimmers of hope. China is making substantial advances in energy-efficient technology and improving health care and pensions. In India, voters are starting to demand good governance, and vigorous social movements against injustice — caste oppression, sexual violence and environmental degradation — are making a dent.

But China’s rigid political system makes it heavily dependent on enlightened consensus among its nonelected rulers, while India’s ramshackle, pluralistic democracy has been surprisingly supple, even if its citizens haven’t reaped the material benefits yet. They share a fundamental problem — a lack of accountability, especially at the local level — that, if not addressed, will make it impossible to sustain strong economic growth and provide a social safety net. In India, democracy is weakest at the village level: electoral participation is vigorous, but local elites often capture the local government, leaving bureaucrats little autonomy (or money) to carry out substantial improvements. In China, the failure of accountability is national, and inherent in the authoritarian system.

In the short term I expect China to do better than India in improving the material condition of its people, primarily because China has more money to spend on redistribution projects and because its infrastructure and administrative capacity are somewhat better. In the medium term, I anticipate that the two countries’ rates of economic growth will converge in the not-too-distant future, as India reaps the benefits of having a younger population. But in the long run, which country does better will depend on political reform, or its absence.
 
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Nice article, but totally different methods towards the solution.
 
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there are three things that i feel need to be controlled in india :-
1) Foriegn funded NGO's who oppose any major infrastructure project the govt would start.
2) Media which creates a bad atmosphere for investment.
3) opposition parties , who need to understand that now that they have lost the elections they need to shut up and keep quiet for 5 years and let the govt do its work.
 
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But India has independent judges, government auditors and a free press — checks on corruption that are absent in China.

the system sounds nice, but does it really work? how's the corruption compare between the two countries?

In the medium term, I anticipate that the two countries’ rates of economic growth will converge in the not-too-distant future, as India reaps the benefits of having a younger population.

this is wishful thinking. large young workforce does not necessarily generate demographic dividends unless they are properly educated and given good governance.
 
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the system sounds nice, but does it really work? how's the corruption compare between the two countries?

According to the Corruption Perception Index, both India (36) and China(39) are similarly placed. This being the case corruption in China is likely to be far higher as India is an extremely open society with numerous political parties and a completely free press while China is a repressive society with limited civil liberties and a tightly controlled information flow. In India, all corruption cases, big or small are widely discussed and criticized which leads to a public perception of all pervasive corruption. In China, on the other hand, only those cases will come out which CCP decides. Indian politicians and bureaucrats are also under intense scrutiny by the parliament, the press, courts etc while CCP enjoys absolute power without fetters.

I would not be surprised if the quantum of corruption in China is at least 10 times higher.
 
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India is now moving up gradually, but China is still in the downward motion. Even, today's GDP numbers proved that.

If you look at the charts of recent times then you will see that it is only India's deficit's that are going up while growth is going down.

As for the article itself its the usual stuff: India has the advantage over China because its a democracy, younger population etc. so in the long run India will overtake China. I have been hearing and reading about this since 2002/03 and in the past 10 years China's economy has grown to become 4,5 times larger then India's and China's national budget is now bigger than India's GDP. I will believe it when i see it. What people often overlook about India is that politically there is very little accountability in India where a majority of the politicians sitting in parliament have a criminal record of sorts. And that India's young and growing population has recieved little education or has any formal skills and will become a huge burden for the country in the future.
 
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oh boy, if only you had a chance to see the world.

According to the Corruption Perception Index, both India (36) and China(39) are similarly placed. This being the case corruption in China is likely to be far higher as India is an extremely open society with numerous political parties and a completely free press while China is a repressive society with limited civil liberties and a tightly controlled information flow. In India, all corruption cases, big or small are widely discussed and criticized which leads to a public perception of all pervasive corruption. In China, on the other hand, only those cases will come out which CCP decides. Indian politicians and bureaucrats are also under intense scrutiny by the parliament, the press, courts etc while CCP enjoys absolute power without fetters.

I would not be surprised if the quantum of corruption in China is at least 10 times higher.
 
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Exerpts only because the Op doesnt want to reveal that the article is written by an INDIAN.
The article follows the age old Indian litany:

1) Lump China and India together
2) Point out China copying (Despite the massive amounds of RD spent In China in comparison to India)
3) China is Communist! India is FREE
4) Gush about Indian DEMOCRACY
5) Conclusion - China is ahead for now but in 2050 India will reign supreme (tortoise and hare analogy again)



6)Secret Indian Plan - we will have white slaves by 2030 he he
 
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In China, what we really care is China-US economy relation. US is our target for now and future, as for India, just like in a Olympic running game, no runner would waste time looking back to runners who lag behind but closely run after the No.1 runner, are you clear? No offense, but I can guarantee that it is true nobody compare China with India in economy fields. Many Chinese wonder why India are always harassing China because you are never the hot topic of big issues but the joke for entertainment. Again no offense.

From now on, I won't waste my time talking about economy or finance issues concerning India, these India economy issues are useless to my study and work. I would rather read the macro strategic research report comparing today's China with 1960s Japan by Goldman Sachs. There are many good suggestion and inspiration to the structural economic reform of China today. We are always learning from the best in the world. India topic has and will never entered the mainstream economist's scope.
 
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Exerpts only because the Op doesnt want to reveal that the article is written by an INDIAN.

Resisting my gut reaction to respond with an equally stupid remark, I respectfully draw your attention to the rules here on copy & paste jobs. One expects members to have made themselves abreast with the rules & if not then seek them.

In link below ,post No3 @WebMaster is of particular significance.

Should there be any clarifications , I'd be glad to help.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/announcements/98376-copy-pasting-articles.html
 
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Half year of 2013,
China Economic growth 7.6%, CPI 2.4%, import 0.9449 trillion USD, export 1.0528trillion USD,surplus 108 billion $;
can any one list about the data of India?
 
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Which is why you dont have a single intellectual achievement in your 2000 year old History while India has tons of. Which is why even the religion you follow is Indian....like it or not, you are just a sect of Hinduism.

kamasutra was the best amongest the all of the Indian achievements
 
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I grant you that. China has always been a copy - paste nation. But unlike India, there is no original thinking.

Look in your list. Switzerland is Number 1.. Not really considered an intellectual giant...is it? What does it do apart from Cuckoo clocks and a criminal banking system??

QQ622A56FE20130715042922_zps5e459584.jpg


you lazy.... I will do it for you~ look at your education


China's

QQ622A56FE20130715043457_zps895bfc9f.jpg


look at the assessment in reading, mathematics and science!!!! China scores 100, India scores 1.4....................
 
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QQ622A56FE20130715042922_zps5e459584.jpg


you lazy.... I will do it for you~ look at your education


China's

QQ622A56FE20130715043457_zps895bfc9f.jpg


look at the assessment in reading, mathematics and science!!!! China scores 100, India scores 1.4....................

98.6's difference means what?

ANS:IQ and intelligence

Are you on dope or something. Bringing all crap data. Indians have the highest scores in GRE / SAT
 
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