The secret world of DRDO

[The Deterrent]

Wouldn't more payload require a re-design?

Not exactly. Internal modification is required i.e. replacing the ABM guidance package (consisting of mid-course update system + active radar seeker) + the ABM warhead with a 250 kg warhead assembly.

 

[Gessler]

Its biggest drawback is the liquid fuel. I don't think there is any other SRBM out today which uses liquid-fuel. I understand that the missiles can stay fueled upto weeks (not sure), but the process and components add to the complexity of preparation procedure.

Only Prithvi-1 & 2 are liquid fueled. Prithvi-3 is solid fueled and fully canisterised. This is the latest version of Prithvi. If you want to compare, then compare with this. Fine comparison you have waged, putting up Prithvi's oldest versions against the world's latest versions.

It is inferior in capabilities to the missiles of its class introduced in around the same time-frame. Missiles like the OTR-23 Oka (9M714K/F), Hades, DF-11, B-611, Ghaznavi D) and the ATACMS (AGM-168). And newer systems like Iskander, LORA, B-611M and M20 simply outscore it.

Hmm...how many of these missiles can have a max range in excess of 600km? How many of these can carry a payload of greater than 1,000kg? How many of these have a CEP lesser than
5-10m?

"Simpy outscore it" my foot.

Prithvi is a missile introduced in 1988 and it beats any missile of its class and age hands-down. Newer versions of the world's SSMs are out, then compare them favourably to the solid-fueled
P-III and you'll get a fine picture of things. And btw, the replacement for the P-I/II has already arrived - Prahaar.

The only advantage it offers is significantly high payload (1000 kg in Prithvi-I/SS-150). This allows for massive destruction both in unitary (HE/FAE) or submunitions (Anti-runway/Anti-tank bomblets).

No that's not its only advantage.

No, I consider Ghauri-I as much outdated as the Prithvi.

Huh? Which version of Prithvi do you have in mind? Besides, I don't even thnk Ghauri and Prithvi are in the same class, they ain't designed to perform all the same roles. Ghauri compares with Agni-I.

 

[The Deterrent]

Only Prithvi-1 & 2 are liquid fueled. Prithvi-3 is solid fueled and fully canisterised. This is the latest version of Prithvi. If you want to compare, then compare with this.

Prithvi-III's second (upper stage) is solid fueled. Show me a source that says otherwise. Canisterized?? The wings are way too large to be effectively canisterized. Any source? Any picture?
To "upgrade" Prithvi-III as a totally solid-fueled SRBM, a complete redesign is required. The solid-fuel discards the use of those large delta wings and the glide trajectory.

Fine comparison you have waged, putting up Prithvi's oldest versions against the world's latest versions.

That is why I mentioned the Oka, Hades and DF-11. All were introduced around the same time. If you don't know about them, read them up first.

Hmm...how many of these missiles can have a max range in excess of 600km? How many of these can carry a payload of greater than 1,000kg? How many of these have a CEP lesser than
5-10m?

Increased range at the cost of reduced payload, right? See, I hear it only from Indians. In theory it is possible, but this whole "variety" of ranges is of little practical use. The end user (Army/Air Force) want standardized versions. In war-time scenario, they don't have the luxury of different warheads to choose from.
Again, you can deliver the same payload by launching 2 missiles, yes? For example the Iskander, the M20, the LORA (which can launch 2 missiles per vehicle, LORA can launch 4) compared to your "latest" Prithvi-III.
Every missile (SRBM) that incorporates INS+Satellite Guidance+Terminal Optical guidance can achieve above mentioned accuracy (examples being LORA, Iskander, M20, ATACMS). Besides, the newer strap-on guidance package is a part of an upgrade.

"Simpy outscore it" my foot.

Can't say anything about your personal opinion.

Prithvi is a missile introduced in 1988 and it beats any missile of its class and age hands-down. Newer versions of the world's SSMs are out, then compare them favourably to the solid-fueled P-III and you'll get a fine picture of things. And btw, the replacement for the P-I/II has already arrived - Prahaar.

Good luck comparing your personified version of Prithvi-III with Quasi-BMs (names already mentioned above).
Yes, I know about Prahaar.

Huh? Which version of Prithvi do you have in mind? Besides, I don't even thnk Ghauri and Prithvi are in the same class, they ain't designed to perform all the same roles. Ghauri compares with Agni-I.

ALL of them. Yes they are not, I didn't say they were in the same class. I was criticizing the liquid fuel.

Patriotism is one thing, but ignoring the facts while doing so isn't a healthy attitude.

 

[Gessler]

Prithvi-III's second (upper stage) is solid fueled. Show me a source that says otherwise. Canisterized?? The wings are way too large to be effectively canisterized. Any source? Any picture?
To "upgrade" Prithvi-III as a totally solid-fueled SRBM, a complete redesign is required. The solid-fuel discards the use of those large delta wings and the glide trajectory.

That is why I mentioned the Oka, Hades and DF-11. All were introduced around the same time. If you don't know about them, read them up first.



Increased range at the cost of reduced payload, right? See, I hear it only from Indians. In theory it is possible, but this whole "variety" of ranges is of little practical use. The end user (Army/Air Force) want standardized versions. In war-time scenario, they don't have the luxury of different warheads to choose from.
Again, you can deliver the same payload by launching 2 missiles, yes? For example the Iskander, the M20, the LORA (which can launch 2 missiles per vehicle, LORA can launch 4) compared to your "latest" Prithvi-III.
Every missile (SRBM) that incorporates INS+Satellite Guidance+Terminal Optical guidance can achieve above mentioned accuracy (examples being LORA, Iskander, M20, ATACMS). Besides, the newer strap-on guidance package is a part of an upgrade.

Can't say anything about your personal opinion.


Good luck comparing your personified version of Prithvi-III with Quasi-BMs (names already mentioned above).
Yes, I know about Prahaar.


ALL of them. Yes they are not, I didn't say they were in the same class. I was criticizing the liquid fuel.

Patriotism is one thing, but ignoring the facts while doing so isn't a healthy attitude.

What a joke. So now you seek to achieve the upper hand in the debate by bringing in Quasi-BMs, eh? Fine
lets bring Shaurya into the game then.

Prithvi, is one of the best missiles of its class in its time. And to this day, it has underwent a number of
upgrades to inprove its capabilities to bring them on par with the world's best. I still don't see how the
missiles in your claims can "simply outscore it".

Prahaar is getting ready to replace all Prithvi-I/IIs within 2015. Longer ranged versions of Prahaar
would also come up with increased capabilities as time goes by. No doubt these missiles are one
of the best in the world.

 

[Hyperion]

DRDO = DReam to DO. No pun intended!

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

Not exactly. Internal modification is required i.e. replacing the ABM guidance package (consisting of mid-course update system + active radar seeker) + the ABM warhead with a 250 kg warhead assembly.

I meant specifically in relation to increase in payload.

 

[The Deterrent]

What a joke. So now you seek to achieve the upper hand in the debate by bringing in Quasi-BMs, eh? Fine
lets bring Shaurya into the game then.

Couldn't bring up something technical, right? Nor were you able to back up your "claims".
I brought the Quasi-tactical BMs in only after you claimed that your personified version of Prithvi-III was "THE latest".
Sure, Shaurya is one of the best systems in its class, I have no objection to that.

Prithvi, is one of the best missiles of its class in its time. And to this day, it has underwent a number of
upgrades to inprove its capabilities to bring them on par with the world's best. I still don't see how the
missiles in your claims can "simply outscore it".

That is because you don't know about the capabilities of other systems.

Prahaar is getting ready to replace all Prithvi-I/IIs within 2015. Longer ranged versions of Prahaar
would also come up with increased capabilities as time goes by. No doubt these missiles are one
of the best in the world.

All I can say is DRDO could have come up with something better than Prahaar.

I meant specifically in relation to increase in payload.

Normally, a redesign is required. But in this case, a SAM has been converted to a SSM by replacing the original warhead+SAM guidance system with land attack payload. Nothing has been increased as a whole IMO.

 

[Gessler]

DRDO = DReam to DO. No pun intended!

SUPARCO = Stupid, Utopian, Powerless, Agitated, Remorsefull, Cheap, O (zero)).

No pun intended,,,at your space research agency, i mean.

Couldn't bring up something technical, right? Nor were you able to back up your "claims".
I brought the Quasi-tactical BMs in only after you claimed that your personified version of Prithvi-III was "THE latest".
Sure, Shaurya is one of the best systems in its class, I have no objection to that.



That is because you don't know about the capabilities of other systems.



All I can say is DRDO could have come up with something better than Prahaar.



Normally, a redesign is required. But in this case, a SAM has been converted to a SSM by replacing the original warhead+SAM guidance system with land attack payload. Nothing has been increased as a whole IMO.

You're just trying to divert the topic, IMO.

Prithvi, is undoubtedly one of the best missiles of its time, and remains one of th best today. I agree
no missile can stay relevent forever, and effective replacements of that missile are coming into place.

To replace Prithvi-1/2 (range of around 150-250km), we have Prahaar, to replace P-3 we'll have
Shaurya, thats what its all about.

 

[Hyperion]

SUPARCO = Stupid, Utopian, Powerless, Agitated, Remorsefull, Cheap, O (zero)).

No pun intended,,,at your space research agency, i mean.

Actually you could do better!

SUPARCO = Superficial Untrustworthy Planners And Researchists Collectively Out on holidays!



Mate, don't tell me accomplishments of DRDO, I know EXACTLY where they stand! Please have a chitty chat competition with rest of the crew here.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

Normally, a redesign is required. But in this case, a SAM has been converted to a SSM by replacing the original warhead+SAM guidance system with land attack payload. Nothing has been increased as a whole IMO.

Somehow, your post doesn't seem quite convincing, any instance of a similar kinda of situation happened in any other missile development?

For ex: India's first Prithvi missile was derived from Soviet SAM SA-2.

Normally, a redesign is required. But in this case, a SAM has been converted to a SSM by replacing the original warhead+SAM guidance system with land attack payload. Nothing has been increased as a whole IMO.

Somehow, your post doesn't seem quite convincing, any instance of a similar kinda of situation happened in any other missile development?

For ex: India's first Prithvi missile was derived from Soviet SAM SA-2.

 

[()()]

We desperately need to bring private organization in defence sectors. Everyone near avadi knows what's happening inside the Tank factory, the officers/employees will simply come and do chit-chat nothing else. they hardly work 30 mins in a day, that too i doubt. If we think avadi tank factory will make our FMBT then this is the foolish thing any Indian can do in his life. I bet it'll never ever happen before 2030.

If we trust DRDO only, in the end all we are going to get is, a big onus on our back. we don't need china, pak or anyone else.

Talking to bring private players on par with DRDO is foolish.
Public private partnership as in case of Arihant and Pinaka should be encouraged. L&T, Tata, Walchand did a great job and the secrecy was also maintained. Private players can provide good human capital and speed up as well.
.

Many officers are having affair with women's who are working there as contractors. I have almost wasted my one year by doing apprentice there, it's just nonsense to trust them.

Perverts are everywhere. These things are prevalent in any organization public or private. And Even if you work in Toyota or TCS every other person believes that the only person who is working is him and others are passing their time.
And for Government organizations, Most of us want to work and apply for government job kion ki kaam nahin karna parta. This is the fact so need to foul mouth DRDO. They are working and growing everyday. They have their challenges and they are overcoming one by one.

DRDO was awarded by Thomson Reuters as India’s most innovative organization in Hi-Tech Academic & Government. (Based on Derwent World Patents Index)
The successful products and patents of DRDO are not result of chit chatting. I don’t need to list them.

DRDO is blood sucking organization.

All those Internet biggies who are using harsh words against DRDO please look at your contribution to India.
You have right to criticize but not to abuse.

 

[Fireaxe888]

India's major problem is that it lacks major [private defense contractors and has to turn every indigenous military project over to DRDO, HAL or its inefficient shipyards, which are both inefficient as a government agencies and simply lack
the funding and experience to develop projects on time or on budget.

Now, I'm not saying that private contractors are much better (see Lockheed's constant failures with the F-35 or the massive cost overruns on pretty much every modern aircraft), but once they're developed deliveries mostly go on schedule.

I'm not sure how encouraging such an industry would work in India: perhaps privatize some of the shipyards and have them compete with the remaining government-owned builders for contracts. Privatization of HAL might work, but what's the benefit of having a monopolistic private company rather than a monopolistic state one? Still, KAI in Korea seems to do fine developing aircraft.

 

[Gessler]

India's major problem is that it lacks major [private defense contractors and has to turn every indigenous military project over to DRDO, HAL or its inefficient shipyards, which are both inefficient as a government agencies and simply lack
the funding and experience to develop projects on time or on budget.

Now, I'm not saying that private contractors are much better (see Lockheed's constant failures with the F-35 or the massive cost overruns on pretty much every modern aircraft), but once they're developed deliveries mostly go on schedule.

I'm not sure how encouraging such an industry would work in India: perhaps privatize some of the shipyards and have them compete with the remaining government-owned builders for contracts. Privatization of HAL might work, but what's the benefit of having a monopolistic private company rather than a monopolistic state one? Still, KAI in Korea seems to do fine developing aircraft.

Biggest problem is with the corrupt government though. They eat away at all the funds released for
improving construction facilities and production lines, leading to slow obsoletedness of facilities, which in
turn slowdown these projects due to lack of adequate infrastructure.

Private players are the best bet for India's situation. They spend every penny they receive on improving their operational capabilities, because that's how they can survive. State-run corp.s' don't have this fear because even if they're in great economic turmoil and waste billions by the day, the govt. will bail them out and never complain, so they do as they please. Cunts.

 

[Tshering22]

One solution: Privatize ALL PSU defense as different companies.

Let TATAs, L&T etc bid each sector of defense in their wings and compete against each other.

Once that happens we will have nothing stopping us.

The system has rot over the years.


Entire political system must be changed forcefully before such things can change.

 

[The Deterrent]

You're just trying to divert the topic, IMO.

Prithvi, is undoubtedly one of the best missiles of its time, and remains one of th best today. I agree
no missile can stay relevent forever, and effective replacements of that missile are coming into place.

To replace Prithvi-1/2 (range of around 150-250km), we have Prahaar, to replace P-3 we'll have
Shaurya, thats what its all about.

The topic is about DRDO and the products it delivers, no? All I meant was that with the amount of funding DRDO receives, it could have come up with something better. People asked questions, so I answered them.
You are making baseless claims, IMO.

Prithvi, is undoubtedly one of the best missiles of its time, and remains one of th best today.

Roger that!

To replace Prithvi-1/2 (range of around 150-250km), we have Prahaar, to replace P-3 we'll have
Shaurya, thats what its all about.

I got that the last time you said it.