The Saudi Threat

[muse]

Batman

What you smell is yourself - and that is unfortunate, for you, it clearly effects your faculty to reason, unfavorably.
and secondly, kiss off. Back to your Arabia

 

[Cheetah786]

Saudi money ? It depends..... what do you consider as Saudi money?
Lot of money of Saudis is invested in many US based oil and petrochemical companies and in some cases it is 50 - 50 ownership.
It would be very stupid to keep money in American banks so don't expect Saudi investors to be so dumb. If they have to keep their money than Swiss banks are the best bet.
Saudi state has invested all is wealth in Saudi Arabia, infrastructre development, industry development, social system development, and man power development.
You need to visit main SaudiArabian cities and industrial cities.
People from all over the world come to work there.

On the contrary only indians are allowed to work in Iran and many million $ flow every year out of Iran to Israel via inidan.
In this senario Iran look real stupid when it criticize US or as a matter of fact; Israel.

Batman If you are clueless and cant come up with any thing but speculation i suggest dont share any thing at all.

On the contrary only indians are allowed to work in Iran and many million $ flow every year out of Iran to Israel via inidan

This is a clear example of people talking out of there back end (indians sending Money to israel )

It would be very stupid to keep money in American banks

DAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH really u think.

 

[Sinnerman108]

The attitude, the complete poverty of ethics displayed in the above quote is exactly why it is important for Pakistanis to keep these ideologies at bay -- for the writer Salam 108, the content, the substance, the right wrong, good bad, is immaterial - he, like so many Pakistanis equates wrong with right, equates good with bad -- this is a reflection not just of the idea that a little bit education is dangerous but of the larger moral failure with Islamia - see, good, is the opposite, not the equal of bad.

And for many such as Salman108, who find in their poverty of faith in God, find utility in ideas that threaten to destroy whatever remains of Muslims societies and their justification is that US and Evangelical and martians and indians are doing it, so should we - again, note the equation, devoid of substance but replete with the socialist idea of "democratic right".

This is what is to become of us as Muslims? Over a bunch of Salafi/Takfiri bodies.

Mr Muse, I fail to see your argument here, and I am sorry I will not accept your critique simply because it does not follow logic.

here is what I said

There is nothing wrong with suggesting or promoting an ideology.
One preaches salafi, some one else can preach some thing else.
both have an equal right.

Problem is that of practice. I think who ever has resources ( Saudi, Americans) like to export their work to others.

And all i mean to say is , who ever has power and money, be it saudi or the americans will tend to live a good life them selves in their own homes and will push other poorer people to propagate their desires.

Please feel free to critique my observation objectively.

 

[Fracker]

Whats Most commen between all these They are All whabis.

I suggest you read up More before comming to the defence of House of saud and al wahab you might find what they are accused of and have done wrong against Muslims is a very very long list.

Yeah right... just for your information, Zia (pakistani ruler) declare jihaad not NS. Once you said Saud family bring NS against Zia, and yet say all were wahabis.. Quite conflicting statement clears that you are confused yourself.. Just want to advertise your own propaganda about Wahabism to save Westerns.. I already mention, this name given to saud family only after they started freedom struggle against Britishers clears pretty much that you are carrying their idea.. (don't know your agenda in forum)

So far i know sect fights are finance by indian raw, not Saud family, since TTP was financed by RAW not KSA. And KSA only finance Taliban i.e. Afghani Mujahideen with help of Zia, and usa.

 

[greatsequence]

Whats Most commen between all these They are All whabis.

And you are a rafizi who is blinded by hate.

 

[Bane Blade]

So you be ok with me slaughtering any body and blowing up mosques buildings or whom ever dont belive in what i belive in and if they complain i simply say they are wrong and just want an excuse to join USA band wegon.

Oh did i mention House of sauds all Money is in USA banks and Americans have bases in Arabia given to them by house of saud you no the people you dont want us to join so hypocrisy to the max just might be the reason people have started turning to hate these clowns.

Did you know that even the Chinese have a lot of our money in US Banks, yet they are our friends. I wouldn't enjoy you blowing up any mosques in my country and I am more than sure that 99.99% of Wahabi's believe that too. I don't support any ideology that will kill many people by shooting in Mecca as well, all sects of Islam have had violence in them at some point and that doesn't represent any party ideology at all. If the Iranians wanted to spread the message of Islam they should have the complete right to as well but the pity is that their will be people exactly like you saying things like

So you would be okay if I shot at the Holy Ka'Bah Nauzubillah

 

[muse]

What do all Islamist terrorists have in common? Wahabi/Salafi ideology - that's just a fact - Now you can argue that notg all Wahabi are terrorists and of course no one is suggesting that, but the fact is that all Islamist terrorists are wahabi/Salafi or tied to them.

It's very sad, but it's the reality. For Arbi, whatever they want to be is their business but Pakistan cannot afford this evil ideology in her peoples.

 

[EjazR]

@muse

Im surprised you are using the same blanket comment some people paint muslims with, which is certainly wrong.

Violent fasadis who have a trans-national vision of Fasad(I don't call it Jihad) like Al Qaeda e.t.c are a minority within the religious nationalists groups. These groups are basically trying to establish Islam from a top down approach i.e. get control of the govt. and then spread Islam which is wrong. Islam never spread like that. It has to spread bottom up to be firmly established.

Even these religious nationalist (e.g. JI in Pakistan, Taliban in Afghanistan, Muslim brotherhood in Egypt) are a minuscule minority among the general muslim population.

The problem is the minority within the minority among muslims have hijacked muslim potrayal by terrorist attacks and widespread coverage of the same by the media. To blame all Saudis, or all Salafis even (Even though I don't agree with them) is naive.

What all terroists do have in common is the Takfiri ideology and their reverence for Ideologues like Hassan Al Banna, Mawdudi and Syed Qutb. They easily declare Muslims who they don't agree as Kafirs and apostates. I agree that this started out from some Salafi elements and many ulemas around the world have condemned this from the beginning. For example, the Deoband ulema have refused to call even Shias and Barelvis as Kafir.
So Salafis have been intolerant in this regard and they should reform this aspect, but to say that they encourage violence against civilians (muslims or non-muslims) is stretching it to far.

 

[muse]

Ejaz

I want to begin with " you misunderstand" and then I will say to you that I understand - you may think that it gives me a enjoyment to say that those whom we have always regarded as brothers and as close to us, those for whom we as a nation have a special affection for - are today a danger to our nation and state -- of course I don't, and the guys you read who object to the suggestion, do so from a genuine love, yes love.

Are they takfiri? yes, but we have to get past our embarassment, they are Wahabi/salafi -- yes, it's embarassing, it's also true - see that part, the it's also true part, that hurts, it cuts to the bone -- in time, when it does not embarass us, we will see that we had to go through it, we had to cut those ties, they did not bind us, they had in fact become a threat and a danger to us.

You know the line, the funding comes from RAW, CIA, MOSSAD, MARS - but you also know the truth, you know whereit comes from.

But what seems to have hurt you is that this truth is sometimes used to malign Islam -- Gentle friend, can any malign us more than these have?? Can any do more damage to us than these have? They put Pakistan to war within itself, I for one shall never forgive them for that, and all in the name of Islam, terror, suicde bombings, all in the name of Islam - and not a single note of congratulationsin the Saudi press or ulema -- no, gentle brother, we know the score. If today you hurt, and your hurt is our hurt, blame those who brought this upon us, blame those who were willing to kill every muslim there is to prove the truth of their sect.

You say I have stretched it too far, I have laid my case, and really it ought to be your case as well, it is all of our case, and it is for us to call to account those who are responsible for our global defaming, for murder on such a mad scale that we are left bewildered and in shock and their most unforgiveable crime is to malign Islam and muslims, we must not forgive them for this, if not adminshed, if not held accountable, with their resources, they will wreck havoc upon us again.

 

[EjazR]

muse,

I have lived in Saudi for a big portion of my life. I still have Saudi friends who identity themselves as Salafis even though we have disagreements. There is no doubt in my mind that Islamic extremists, particularly violent religious nationalists (aka Islamists another word that I don't like) are responsible for maligning Islam today. I agree with you that a major section of muslims are still in disbelief that a muslim could do such things and think its the "zinist/crusader alliance".

But I would still say that salafis still do not promote violence against civilians the way AQ have done. That is what I don't agree with. AQ type groups who justify violence against civilians wether in the US, Israel or Pakistan are minority within this groups of salafis and religious nationalists. I don't agree with their ideology but I wont call salafis and these religious nationalists as terrorists comparable to OBL and AQ

When 9/11 happened, many saudis who would call themselves "salafi" were against the attacks and condemned it. Killing of civilians is not allowed they said. One of the reason there is still widespread belief/misconception that it was "zionist/crusader alliance" that did it and not OBL.

Do salafis need to reform their thinking, yes ofcourse they do. From getting over their takfiri ideology and their anathema over anything non-arab to moving towards a more tolerant and spiritual faith which is what most meccans and mednites follow in any case.

This ideology is confined near the political power base of Riyadh around the najd region. It is not found favorable in the shia majority regions of hte east. Or the seat of Islam in the regions of Hejaz.

What I am saying is that the ideology that must be defeated is mixing up politics with Islam and the belief that somehow Islam can spread through the top down approach. Being a religious muslim does not mean that Islam has to be the basis of vote to a political party or the basis of government. The salafis and other religious nationalists use this ideology sometimes violently to achieve this aim thinking they are serving Islam. This has to be defeated. This means bringing the salafis and religious nationalists out of this vision of getting state patronage as well.

For example, I am against having a state department like "dept. of promotion of virtue and prevention of vice" which is quite notorious in Saudi. This is a job of all muslims and should be done with hikmah/wisdom. But with state patronage, it becomes more of a power play. Moreover, it is high time that KSA (and other arab countires) moves towards a system of representative governance. A democratic and free society will not allow grievances to fester and infect society like it has done in the past.

 

[Developereo]

I think we need to step back from this Saudi/Iranian, Sunni/Shia/Salafi/Wahabi business and look at the broader picture.

We need to establish certain ground rules in Pakistan that every religious institution/instruction must follow. These include:

- religion is a private matter
- equal rights for women and minorities
- no incitement to violence
- no anti-social ideology
- anything else??

Within these parameters, any body is free to promote their religion.

 

[Bane Blade]

What do all Islamist terrorists have in common? Wahabi/Salafi ideology - that's just a fact

What pure rubbish, their are many Shi'ite terrorist organizations that terrorize people a lot hence I disagree with muse and feel that all ideologies within Islam have an extremist wing and clearly we must stop all of them and start practicing something else since Islam certainly can't be a solution.

 

[muse]

Ejaz

An elegant post. Again, what the arbi does in his arabia, to his arbi, is their own business, these have turned their back of Islam and Muslims, now it is the non-arbis, these Pakistines, arabized, salafized, low lives we have unfinished business with.

Bane blade

Watch, sympathize if you wish, but know, to the last of them, we will either kill, or capture and cage like animals. Now you can howl at the moon all you like, it won't change the fact that these will be either dead or in cages. You, can breathe fresh air a little longer, but sooner or later what is in you will seek "expression". It's the ideology of hate.

all ideologies within Islam have an extremist wing

How casual is that, extremism is just a part of Islam -

How now gentle Ejaz, isn't extremism a part of Islam, after all, Bane Blade has put it out in his "innocence" that all "ideologies" in Islam have a extremist wing -- in other words extremism is a part of Islam -
Do you understand now why these people are a mortal threat, do you see why no one else can do Islam and Muslims more damage than these corruptions have already done?


Develepero

Precisely - Our solution was and is and will be, M.A Jinnah, Quaid e Azaam, by the way bane blade, that's Kafir e Azaam to you, is it?

 

[Enigma SIG]

What pure rubbish, their are many Shi'ite terrorist organizations that terrorize people a lot hence I disagree with muse and feel that all ideologies within Islam have an extremist wing and clearly we must stop all of them and start practicing something else since Islam certainly can't be a solution.

Hmm have u ever considered that most of these organisations came into being due to the killings done by wahabi organisations (Lashkar e Jhangvi, Sipah Sahaba)..?

I hope you remember the tit for tat killings that used to take place in karachi, and till today these takfiri bastards are killing shias in DGK and DIK; Parachinar; Hangu; Gilgit and elsewhere

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction

 

[Enigma SIG]

And you are a rafizi who is blinded by hate.

Who is blinded by hate; the one who calls a person a salafi but still regards him as a muslim; or the one who calls a muslim a rafizi and issues takfirs just like his 2 day mullah

"Yauma yunadoona kullu unaasin bimamihim" Al Quran

We have our imam; you bring yours