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The real Seoul story: At the NSG plenary, China behaved not as an enlightened power

indushek

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What happened at the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) plenary in Seoul? Much misinformation (even disinformation) is floating around New Delhi and for three reasons. First, the issues are complex and require context, which many may not have. Second, the political opposition to BJP is understandably using the occasion to target the Narendra Modi government and making partial assessments. Third, the Chinese propaganda mechanism has turned much more sophisticated in an intelligent and selective briefing of Indian media. This presents a challenge for India, but that is getting ahead of the story.

The thread begins in 2008, with India winning the waiver from the NSG to undertake nuclear commerce despite being a nuclear power outside the ambit of the Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT). The next logical step was for India to apply for membership to four high-tech export-control regimes: the NSG, the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR), the Wassenaar Arrangement (conventional arms, dual-use tech) and the Australia Group (chemical-biological weapons).


Illustration by Uday Deb

Of these the NSG was a priority. The Group works on consensus. It had given India a waiver in 2008 but could in theory revoke the waiver or change its terms. If India was in the Group it could veto any change that would harm India, Teflon-coat the 2008 waiver and additionally contribute to the global nuclear regime. In 2010, President Barack Obama visited and promised support for Indian entry to the NSG and the other treaties.

Astonishingly, the UPA government did not apply. It made a noise, but nothing more. Its nuclear liability law, which had problems that were eventually sorted out by the Modi government in 2015, may have deterred it. The liability law had made the 2008 waiver infructuous and nuclear commerce with India near impossible.

India applied to the MTCR in 2015. After a setback it got in, on the second attempt, in 2016. In May 2016, it applied for NSG membership for the first time. By June most of the countries (about 40 of 48) were willing to take it in straightaway, no questions asked. This was a significant diplomatic achievement over two months.

Why did India apply now? A sympathetic American president is ending his term. His successor may be preoccupied at the time of the next NSG plenary in 2017. In 2018, India will be in election mode and the Modi government may have less leverage. As such, it was 2016 – or it was a kick down the road.

In Seoul the NSG delegates met on June 23. China insisted India’s application would not be discussed. Late in the day it agreed to the application being included in the agenda on the condition that no decision on the application would be taken in the 2016 NSG plenary. At this stage, the Indian delegation in Seoul knew immediate success was not possible. Barring a miracle that got the Chinese to change their minds, India would have to come away from Seoul with an “application filed”, not an “application approved”.

From then on, all discussion in Seoul was theoretical. Every country knew a decision on India was not happening this time. As the conversation continued, the Group broke into four:

  • China opposed India full stop. It said India could join only if it signed the NPT
  • About 40 countries said admit India at once
  • Brazil, Mexico and Switzerland wanted two parallel announcements: India’s entry and a criteria for membership, which would mirror India’s nuclear record. It was understood no other country at present met those possible criteria
  • New Zealand and Ireland wanted the criteria for membership to come first and then an announcement that India was meeting those criteria. They too understood no other country at present met those possible criteria.
South Africa oscillated between positions three and four. Turkey remained neutral. Nobody other than China said it didn’t want India or opposed India. Nobody, not even China, brought up Pakistan. It was recognised that since China had vetoed a decision on the Indian application this had become a normal diplomatic confab, not a decisive discussion.

The word “criteria” has been used more than once. What was the nub of “criteria”? It was not that an applicant should necessarily be a signatory to the NPT. It was that an applicant must adhere and commit to the spirit of the NPT. The 2008 NSG waiver explicitly stated India was part of the “widest possible implementation of the provisions and objectives” of the NPT. As such, 47 of 48 countries were fine with India not signing the NPT and validated India, with its impeccable non-proliferation history, as being NPT compatible.

What next? The application is before the NSG. There is a renewed effort to have a special plenary decide on it in 2016 itself. That may or may not happen, but the NSG cannot defer the decision indefinitely. More critically, China has shown its hand. Unlike 2008 much of the diplomatic legwork was done by India, and not the US. In any case the US has less influence on China than it did eight years ago.

It’s down to a shootout between New Delhi and Beijing. China is behaving not as an enlightened power but as a strategic small-timer, with the petty, perfidious and short-termist mindset of a Pyongyang dictator or a Rawalpindi general. India is honour-bound to send it a tough message. There is no option.

Link to original:

http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatime...ghtened-power-but-as-a-strategic-small-timer/

@dadeechi @Kinetic @MilSpec @Joe Shearer @Oscar @punit @Water Car Engineer @Syama Ayas
 
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Basically, India sold their sovereignty to America by agreeing to sign the CISMOA/LSA which would allow American troops to operate out of Indian soil, in exchange for the NSG seat.

India, US agree on logistics agreement, to be signed in a month - The Hindu

But they seriously overestimated America's ability to deliver the NSG seat. As they found out recently. :lol:

It seems India has no idea of what "veto power" means. It means we can shut it down anytime, for any reason. In fact we don't even need to give a reason.

India paid out of their nose for US support, but they did not give a similar payment to us, so they didn't get anything in return.
 
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It’s down to a shootout between New Delhi and Beijing. China is behaving not as an enlightened power but as a strategic small-timer, with the petty, perfidious and short-termist mindset of a Pyongyang dictator or a Rawalpindi general.
Haha.
What an idiotic way to express your butt hurt.

Indiana you better behave and learn to deal with countries with dignity. Better not give lectures to China.
As they care a damn.
 
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Basically, India sold their sovereignty to America by agreeing to sign the CISMOA/LSA which would allow American troops to operate out of Indian soil, in exchange for the NSG seat.

But they seriously overestimated America's ability to deliver the NSG seat. As they found out recently. :lol:

It seems India has no idea of what "veto power" means. It means we can shut it down anytime, for any reason. In fact we don't even need to give a reason.

India paid out of their nose for US support, but they did not give a similar payment to us, so they didn't get anything in return.

Repeating same lie again and again wont make one truth .

Did I already asked you ?
Where is the press release of the MEA where India signed CISMOA/LSA.

Any link ???

US came here for our support and we are just exploiting it


Your post is reported for making same arguement again and again without any link or proof .
 
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Haha.
What an idiotic way to express your butt hurt.

Indiana you better behave and learn to deal with countries with dignity. Better not give lectures to China.
As they care a damn.

Is that all you have to say for points mentioned in the article? This article shows how much mis information is being thrown around like Russia not supporting us or even about Chinese stance!!!

Repeating same lie again and again wont make one truth .

Did I already asked you ?
Where did the press release of the MEA where India signed CISMOA/LSA.

Any link ???

US came here for our support and we are just exploiting it


Your post is reported for making same arguement again and again without any link or proof .

The poster's rant aside what do you think about the pertinent points of the article?

Shows the petty mindset of Opposition and the continued foreign policy of India irrespective of party in power.
 
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Is that all you have to say for points mentioned in the article? This article shows how much mis information is being thrown around like Russia not supporting us or even about Chinese stance!!!



The poster's rant aside what do you think about the pertinent points of the article?

Shows the petty mindset of Opposition and the continued foreign policy of India irrespective of party in power.
But the end result is what matters.
So better luck next time. And mind you the pyaray ki jhappi policy by modi is not enough to win NSG membership.
 
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another thead for whining Indians sponsored by China.. :D
 
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Repeating same lie again and again wont make one truth .

Did I already asked you ?
Where did the press release of the MEA where India signed CISMOA/LSA.

Any link ???

US came here for our support and we are just exploiting it


Your post is reported for making same arguement again and again without any link or proof .

Do you not even read your own news? :lol:

India, US agree on logistics agreement, to be signed in a month - The Hindu

(Which allows American troops to use Indian military bases.)

Modi-Carter_2811944g.jpg
 
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Is that all you have to say for points mentioned in the article? This article shows how much mis information is being thrown around like Russia not supporting us or even about Chinese stance!!!

It's a blog, Hence a personal opinion of someone, Doesn't make it really a credible unbias source.. So there is a huge question mark on IF this actually is what happened in Seoul
 
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Do you not even read your own news? :lol:

India, US agree on logistics agreement, to be signed in a month - The Hindu

(Which allows American troops to use Indian military bases.)

Modi-Carter_2811944g.jpg

Don't deter, show a news where it doesnt mention the obvious terms like Agrees, next month so on and so forth.

India didnt sign the agreements yet, and its obvious whose side China is on esp after it put its cards on table at NSG.

China can no more whine about India bringing US into the politics of Asia.

It's a blog, Hence a personal opinion of someone, Doesn't make it really a credible unbias source.. So there is a huge question mark on IF this actually is what happened in Seoul
There were reports to this effects, if you have followed the news Chinese delegate had to save face, when he said Indian membership will not be taken up in seoul and then the same guy giving NPT as the only reason for opposition :D
 
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Don't deter, show a news where it doesnt mention the obvious terms like Agrees, next month so on and so forth.

India didnt sign the agreements yet, and its obvious whose side China is on esp after it put its cards on table at NSG.

China can no more whine about India bringing US into the politics of Asia.

Uh, why should we care if India sells their sovereignty to a foreign country. It's their sovereignty, they can choose what they want to do with it. :lol:

But India already said they will sign it in one month, the argument that you have not signed it YET doesn't matter when you have already promised to do so.

You paid America the biggest possible price for NSG support. Now pay us, it's that simple. Don't worry, we won't ask for military bases, only economic deals though. :azn:
 
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Atleast this will act as a wake up call to India.

The Modi government will now have to create leverage with China.

There are numerous fora that both countries are members of. We can expect India to find ways and means to extract leverage on things that China wants.

Maybe start by introducing non tariff barriers on unimportant items or tie up further Chinese investments in India contingent on support for international issues.

Expand military and political ties with countries in the neighborhood esp. Vietnam, Philipines and Japan and insist on the role of "due procedure" especially where it concerns Chinese interests and step up cooperation with the US.

The last thing to do is to "give" anything to China as a reward for this behavior.

Block dont feed.
 
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Do you not even read your own news? :lol:

India, US agree on logistics agreement, to be signed in a month - The Hindu

(Which allows American troops to use Indian military bases.)

Modi-Carter_2811944g.jpg


Did they signed it or not ?
To be signed in a month ??:sarcastic:
Do you have any comprehension problem TTA ?

The Hindu is the not an authority of MEA press release .
Where is the MEA press release where we signed this document ?

You know a lots more than Indians about India,so where is the link .

Uh, why should we care if India sells their sovereignty to a foreign country. It's their sovereignty, they can choose what they want to do with it. :lol:

But India already said they will sign it in one month, the argument that you have not signed it YET doesn't matter when you have already promised to do so.

You paid America the biggest possible price for NSG support. Now pay us, it's that simple. Don't worry, we won't ask for military bases, only economic deals though. :azn:

We said the same thing about saying US nuke reactors after 2008 waiver .
Was it happened ?
Still now all those agreements is sleeping in paper .


In here we will make the decisions .
 
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