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The People's Republic of Scandal - TIME cover

Trolls will always troll no doubt. But trolling doesn't stand to the facts it's just imagination. Showing some reality will vaporise the troll not counter trolling.
I didn't read your comments that much as I have read of Mr. Shutter so I asked the questions. Don't get me wrong

That is one thing about Chinese. Maybe in real life off this forum, many of them maybe even like many of those who frequently post on this forum will critize CPC and the Chinese government and complain many social problem with others, but when the same party and government is attacked by foreign medias or foreigners, it is going to be a totally different issue. This has many causes to it, and those western medias are not helping at all especailly after 2008 Tibet incident. One thing is that Chinese government has been doing a very good job for giving Chinese people a national identity that they can be pround of, and for most of them their lives has been benefitted in this short 20 or 30 years greatly, even though sometimes this come at the expenses of others which people ofter hear about outside of China. Overall the majority are well off because of the leadership of CPC. Honestly I think the more western press smears on China, the less people in China are going to listen to them. They are only pushing young people toward CPC rather than whatever they are intended to do. Here is an article worth reading if you are interested in understanding some of the question you have asked. It is quite long, so I will just give you a link to it.
Letter from China: Angry Youth : The New Yorker

Here is another one that is very interesting.
High quality global journalism requires investment. Please share this article with others using the link below, do not cut & paste the article. See our Ts&Cs and Copyright Policy for more detail. Email ftsales.support@ft.com to buy additional rights. China's angry youth drown out dissent - FT.com

China's angry youth drown out dissentBy Jamil Anderlini in Beijing
Images of angry Chinese students beating up Korean protesters in Seoul and attacking Carrefoursupermarkets at home may well have been the last thing Bo Yang, the controversial author of The Ugly Chinaman, saw before he died on Tuesday in Taiwan at the age of 88.

Mr Bo, renowned for his criticism of what he dubbed Chinese cultural tendencies towards authoritarianism, xenophobia and intolerance, spent nine years in prison in Taiwan. But he saved his most scathing criticism for China's Communist party, which he accused of drawing out the worst characteristics of the Chinese people.

For some in China, those characteristics have been evident in the behaviour of the young nationalists known as fenqing, or "angry youth", behind an aggressive response at home and abroad to the pro-Tibet protests that greeted the Olympic torch relay in places such as Europe and Australia.

"These people have been trained in an authoritarian system. They are at the same time victims of an authoritarian system, but they also behave in an authoritarian way towards others and are incredibly self-righteous," says a Chinese politics professor who asked not to be named.

"We should be more tolerant and respect the right of people to disagree with us but these people do not understand such values."

The term fenqinghas been used in each of the past three generations to describe very different kinds of rebel.

In the Cultural Revolution, the word referred to the millions of urban-dwelling students who were sent to the countryside to toil with peasants and became embittered towards a society that had stolen their futures. In the 1980s the term was used to describe the students and intellectuals who shaped the movement for greater social and political freedoms that ended when the tanks rolled into Tiananmen Square on June 4 1989. The Ugly Chinaman became hugely popular among that generation of fenqing when it was published in 1985.

In recent weeks the world has seen a glimpse of the modern fenqing - patriotic, xenophobic, nationalistic and, in some cases, violent in their defence of the motherland. This latest incarnation has partly emerged as the result of government policies implemented in reaction to the events of 1989, after which "patriotic" indoc-trination became an even more important element of the education system.

There are no indications that the contemporary fenqing are members of the sort of organised nationalist movement seen in places such as Russia, where Nashi, a pro-Kremlin youth group, has had a growing profile.

Rather, "since the mid-1990s urban educated youth in China have become much more nationalistic rather than angry at the government", says David Zweig, director of the centre on China's transnational relations at Hong Kong University of Science and Technology. "There is a strong sense that the west, led by the US, is trying to keep China down and stop it from taking its rightful place in the world."

With limited access to alternative views, the vast majority of Chinese are not aware of the deep resentment many Tibetans feel towards Beijing's heavy-handed style of governance. They accept without question the official version that recent protests began when a handful of criminals went on a rampage at the incitement of the Dalai Lama.

One widely held belief, even within elite political circles, is that the Central Intelligence Agency supported and incited the Dalai Lama to launch the Tibetan protests, which began on March 10 with peaceful demonstrations and descended into riots on March 14.

"People in the west don't understand the Tibet issue and they are being tricked into attacking China," says one avowed fenqing who asked not to be named.

But for many the fenqing appear to be looking at the west through the prism of their own society and assuming that governments elsewhere exercise as much control over public discourse as does the Communist party.

"China and the Communist party seem to have become fused in the minds of most of the young Chinese I've met," says a Danish student at Peking University, the birthplace of the Tiananmen generation's fenqing but today a place where the politics of patriotism drown out dissenting voices. "If you criticise the government it's like you're criticising the entire nation of 1.3bn people."

After a wave of anti-western protests centred on Carrefour supermarkets, the government has mobilised its state security apparatus to tamp down passions. It is keenly aware that for many of the students who seized on this opportunity to display dissatisfaction, the roots of their anger are the same as they were for previous generations of fenqing.
China's angry youth drown out dissent - FT.com
 
Nevertheless, it is replied in your post, and well-replied. If others had followed your example, and spoken about the defects in the article, rather than the defects in those who had raised it, this discussion would not have been this messy.

It is nice to see dignity return to the discussion. If you read post #101, I believe you will understand what I mean.

I also found it distasteful for some Chinese members' words and actions. If one really find oneself to be better than the others, then one really should've behaved that way. On this note, I think both China and India are far away from being superpowers at least mentality wise they are not prepared. But again the only superpower left at this moment has not set any good example either.
 

My immediate, gut reaction after reading your two references was, "They could be talking about India!"

Let me explain. If you look at the phenomenon of Indian trollers, you will find the same personalities as are in those articles. Young people want to believe in India, and are grateful and relieved that there is progress. Just like in China, although it may seem that progress in India has been far less in China. Of course, this relative lack of progress is used by Chinese fenqing against their Idian counterparts, for whom no equivalent terms exist so far, largely because they are thought, perhaps wrongly, to be affiliated to a right-wing majoritarian party, whose views they echo.

The fact is, these are conservative young people, strange though that may sound.

They are conservative largely due to western criticism of India, which many of them have experienced first-hand as a barely-concealed but very lively vein of disdain for Indian society, social habits, ways of work, ways of speaking, congregation in ethnic groups, discomfort with drinking, unfamiliarity with the society of unattached women, and interactions with their host society, its norms, manners, rules in daily life, and xenophobia.

For them, as for the Chinese youth described in the articles, westernization, prosperity, education do not translate into liberalism, which came as a shock to liberals of my generation and persuasion. Instead, like Tang Jie and his friends, these young people are deliberately reaching back into Indian history, to the classics, to find ways of thought and expression that legitimize their often inchoate resentment of criticism, criticism that they see as a western way of degrading India's success.

In Indian society, perhaps unlike Chinese society, this phenomenon has found expression, among other things, in an attempt to overhaul the conventional account of India's past. In many respects, they march parallel with the majoritarian fundamentalists, and there has really been no attempt to distinguish them from the paid hacks of the majoritarians, which is singularly obtuse on our part.

Two major differences: unlike the Chinese, suspicious of censorship and seeking to overcome it wherever encountered, sometimes even when not encountered, Indians tend to believe their media. Second, it is impossible to describe the cauldron that is Indian politics. Some of the sentiments encountered by others, and not immediately decipherable, are due to these undercurrents.

Brilliant exegesis. It helped me understand much about not only Chinese youngsters and their aggression, but also about Indian youngsters and theirs.
 
The point is that the only "Chinese" we hear from on this and other non-censored forums are PRC-paid internet warriors or wannabees. You never see an introspective and balanced response from a PRC poster. The PRC posters who are going to school in the West are, by definition, the privileged of the privileged. They are ALL "princelings" of some degree. They do not speak for the true Chinese man in the street, but for the Chinese ruling elite. The PRC posters we see are the 0.01%!

Not true. People who post here are normal citizens who have nothing to do with the government.

One of the biggest problems now is that China bashing has become popular sport in the west due to western insecurities. Which is a shame because just as you've seen here, everyday Chinese citizens are becoming aware of this and America's goodwill is declining amongst Chinese citizens.

Afterall, how can you feel good about someone who's constantly plotting behind the scenes to keep you down?
 
Not true. People who post here are normal citizens who have nothing to do with the government.

One of the biggest problems now is that China bashing has become popular sport in the west due to western insecurities. Which is a shame because just as you've seen here, everyday Chinese citizens are becoming aware of this and America's goodwill is declining amongst Chinese citizens.

Afterall, how can you feel good about someone who's constantly plotting behind the scenes to keep you down?

That is the truth. US elites are completely out of touch with reality. They think this is still the 1950's golden age. It is: for them in their gated NYC and DC mansions. For the rest of the country, when 400 people control more wealth than half of all Americans combined, the story's a bit different.
 
Not true. People who post here are normal citizens who have nothing to do with the government.

One of the biggest problems now is that China bashing has become popular sport in the west due to western insecurities. Which is a shame because just as you've seen here, everyday Chinese citizens are becoming aware of this and America's goodwill is declining amongst Chinese citizens.

Afterall, how can you feel good about someone who's constantly plotting behind the scenes to keep you down?

That is the truth. US elites are completely out of touch with reality. They think this is still the 1950's golden age. It is: for them in their gated NYC and DC mansions. For the rest of the country, when 400 people control more wealth than half of all Americans combined, the story's a bit different.

Much about the background to what we see is clearer now after chauism's deep-delving notes. Please be sure that your pride in your country is much better understood, partly as being organic and natural, partly as a reaction to western elites, but couched in the terms of discourse used by the west itself, and using a school of thought popular in the west of today to view both international relations and the condition of China.

However, I ask you gentlemen to consider two things: why is it that you cannot imagine a similar state of mind among other nationalities? I am referring to your repeated slurs and insults of Indians, very often almost on a pre-emptive basis: let's get them before they get us. This was never necessary. Indians did not come on board PDF to hunt down Chinese. At the same time, Indians are resentful of the lackeys of the west who acquired formidable arms, enormous morale-boosting support and the closure of many routes of scientific and technical advancement to their foes. They seem, many of them, intent on forcing Pakistanis to admit that they Indians were right all along. Which is never going to happen.

There is no point in fighting this three-cornered fight any longer.
 
The case of Bo is a bad thing to have happened anywhere in developing countries. I am sure like kinds of scandals occur perhaps more frequently in india, less so in vietnam not because it doesn't have them but no one give too much of a damn to vietcongs until they turn nasty like what they are doing now in SCS.

Right, this is not special in China and other developing countries have more corruption (except numbers of Bo's mistress). I also know that the Chinese government in recent years has been very fierce fight corruption, there are cases of corruption were under sentence of death ...
But in this topic, the Time cover made ​​me curious, the name and question.
I am a little surprised with the way of chinese members "face" with it here.

In the East Sea (SCS), Vietcong has only done what under UNCLOS1982, why you see that is "nasty"?
 
I undestand the need for having a multicultural forum, but these Indians on this forum really waste everybody's time.

Long live China

The funny thing is they think what they saying here is really smart but reality is most of them are cluless and make a complete fool of themselves most of the time
 
The funny thing is they think what they saying here is really smart but reality is most of them are cluless and make a complete fool of themselves most of the time

Fortunately for us, we have you as guardians, smarter than these clueless (or cluless) and complete fools, and able to point out their smart tricks to the rest of us. It is good to think of you returning to your lofty halls on Olympus in the evening, and sitting down for a reviving bowl of ambrosia. What would have done without you?

Must be due to your massive IQs. What do you do for it, eat a lot of fish? Or is it just natural?
 
New information about one of two characters in the article, Chen Guangcheng:

Activist Chen Guangcheng: China targets lawyers trying to help
By Sui-Lee Wee, Reuters / May 11, 2012

Officials have confiscated the license of a lawyer who volunteered to defend blind activist Chen Guangcheng's nephew. The nephew has been charged with 'homicide with intent.'
Chinese authorities have confiscated a lawyer's license and threatened to do the same to another after they volunteered to defend the nephew of blind Chinese activist Chen Guangcheng. The moves come as Mr. Chen, whose escape from house arrest last month sparked an international furor, said officials were "going crazy" with reprisals against his family in eastern Shandong Province.
Activist Chen Guangcheng: China targets lawyers trying to help - CSMonitor.com
 
Bo Xilai's Wife Confesses in Murder Case
VOA News
August 10, 2012

Chinese state media say the wife of politician Bo Xilai has confessed to the murder of British businessman Neil Heywood and vowed to accept her sentence.

Xinhua state news agency reported Gu Kailai's statement Friday, quoting her as saying the case has been "like a huge stone" weighing on her for more than half a year. She said her actions were the result of a "mental breakdown," but that she accepts responsibility for them.

Xinhua reported on Friday that Gu's statements were made during her seven-hour trial in the eastern city of Hefei a day earlier.

Also Friday, state media say four Chinese police officers admitted to the Hefei court that they tried to help her cover up the suspected poisoning death last November. Until accusations against Gu emerged this year, Heywood's death had been reported as possible overuse of alcohol.

The four had served in Bo Xilai's political stronghold, the southwestern city of Chongqing. Prosecutors said the men forged interview transcripts and hid evidence.

Bo Xilai's Wife Confesses in Murder Case
 
Bo Xilai's Wife Confesses in Murder Case
VOA News
August 10, 2012

Chinese state media say the wife of politician Bo Xilai has confessed to the murder of British businessman Neil Heywood and vowed to accept her sentence.

Xinhua state news agency reported Gu Kailai's statement Friday, quoting her as saying the case has been "like a huge stone" weighing on her for more than half a year. She said her actions were the result of a "mental breakdown," but that she accepts responsibility for them.

Xinhua reported on Friday that Gu's statements were made during her seven-hour trial in the eastern city of Hefei a day earlier.

Also Friday, state media say four Chinese police officers admitted to the Hefei court that they tried to help her cover up the suspected poisoning death last November. Until accusations against Gu emerged this year, Heywood's death had been reported as possible overuse of alcohol.

The four had served in Bo Xilai's political stronghold, the southwestern city of Chongqing. Prosecutors said the men forged interview transcripts and hid evidence.

Bo Xilai's Wife Confesses in Murder Case
I think that Chinese government really should give Neil Heywood an award for his sacrifice, and put him alone side of Norman Bethune. The secret investigation of Gu Kailai and Bo Xilai has been going on for years with not much progress until this incident. He did all Chinese a favour for getting rid of Bo and his family. If Bo is ever put in power, China would've seen an economical and political catastrophic unheard of after Culture Revolution. Good thing that justice had been served.
 
Flame thread.

More anti-Chinese propaganda by the despotic western regimes ******** by china success and fearful of chinas rise.

Mods please perma ban indocarib.

In the civilized world, where freedom of expression is guaranteed - you are allowed to air views even if they are unpopular.
 
Bo Xilai's Wife Confesses in Murder Case
VOA News
August 10, 2012

Chinese state media say the wife of politician Bo Xilai has confessed to the murder of British businessman Neil Heywood and vowed to accept her sentence.

Xinhua state news agency reported Gu Kailai's statement Friday, quoting her as saying the case has been "like a huge stone" weighing on her for more than half a year. She said her actions were the result of a "mental breakdown," but that she accepts responsibility for them.

Xinhua reported on Friday that Gu's statements were made during her seven-hour trial in the eastern city of Hefei a day earlier.

Also Friday, state media say four Chinese police officers admitted to the Hefei court that they tried to help her cover up the suspected poisoning death last November. Until accusations against Gu emerged this year, Heywood's death had been reported as possible overuse of alcohol.

The four had served in Bo Xilai's political stronghold, the southwestern city of Chongqing. Prosecutors said the men forged interview transcripts and hid evidence.

Bo Xilai's Wife Confesses in Murder Case

One wonders how many such cases abound in a country where the rulers are answerable to no one. Mugabe's Zimbabwe and China are the countries where the top brass in absolutely unanswerable and can commit murders and illegal activities with impunity.
 
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