The Pak-US strategic dialogue

[equiliz3r]

If US is really sincere in Building Long term Relationship then they should Provide a Physical Proof of it.

Yes,Immediately give Reapers to Pakistan as a token of Goodwill.

But then i guess we will be again used as Tissue Papers.

US hass not given Reapers to its closet and most trustworthy allies such as Britain and NATO forces.
Giiving it to Pakistan will be Difficult

 

[ambidex]

I am scratching my head after putting myself in clothes of Pakistan. I am finding it difficult how i be able to convince USA to serve menu of 56 pages. Any help please.

 

[pak-yes]

I think the catch is in suggesting USA, what long term benefits Pakistan be able to create.

Yup you are right.But Unfortunately our Leadership has never been good at Diplomacy Unlike Indians.

US hass not given Reapers to its closet and most trustworthy allies such as Britain and NATO forces.
Giiving it to Pakistan will be Difficult

But Wikipedia says that not only Royal Air Force has them but also Italian Air Force.

Point is Pakistan can also get these things.It's Just that USA needs some "Persuasion".

 

[equiliz3r]

Yup you are right.But Unfortunately our Leadership has never been good at Diplomacy Unlike Indians.



But Wikipedia says that not only Royal Air Force has them but also Italian Air Force.

Point is Pakistan can also get these things.It's Just that USA needs some "Persuasion".

such a deal with Pakistan will move India more close to Russia and China.
All the things Did by BUSH to bring India out of that Camp will go in gutter!
US will provide some choopers and other counter insurgency toys to Pakistan.................can increase economic Aid to Pakistan........etc
But such a high tech things ...........we need to wait and see.

US is never true to anyone.................it is ally of one which suits its interest.
Its not Russia

 

[araz]

such a deal with Pakistan will move India more close to Russia and China.
All the things Did by BUSH to bring India out of that Camp will go in gutter!
US will provide some choopers and other counter insurgency toys to Pakistan.................can increase economic Aid to Pakistan........etc
But such a high tech things ...........we need to wait and see.

US is never true to anyone.................it is ally of one which suits its interest.
Its not Russia

My friend
Without going into semantics, Russia which you love so much has also shafted India with regards to AdmiralGorshkovand raised the price of other equipment half way through the work.The point i am trying to make is we are all stooges in the game that the big palyers are palying.Every one is after its own interests. The re is no such thing as friendship in international arena.It is all about allignment of interests and how two countries alligning together can serve their own interests better. i am glad India is finally coming out of the Russian sphere and building a strong economy. This is the only way to impose oneself in this world.
Araz

 

[pak-yes]

such a deal with Pakistan will move India more close to Russia and China.
All the things Did by BUSH to bring India out of that Camp will go in gutter!
US will provide some choopers and other counter insurgency toys to Pakistan.................can increase economic Aid to Pakistan........etc
But such a high tech things ...........we need to wait and see.

US is never true to anyone.................it is ally of one which suits its interest.
Its not Russia

US Will use you like a tissue Paper and then throw you away.Just take a look at our history.

Again in order to extract Reaper from US of A some education would be needed to deliver to US about Importance of Pakistan in defeating Taliban.

But our Foreign Minister is so innocent and Soft.We never had any good and cunning foreign minister except Bhutto.

 

[araz]

advanced US military hardware

I am thinking what are we expecting? F-35s

The problem remains lack of trust.I dont see much hardware coming other than a few drones and some F16s and choppers.These are what we need and can sustain through our own resources.However, where US will be vital for us is to open the door to nuclear acceptance.This may allow us the liberty to negotiate with the world about having better Nuclear technology.Our energy and water needs are vital and we need those much morew so than military hardware. Some financial relief would also be offered.However the art is in negotiating. One always asks for more than one expects to get to arrive at a mutually satisfactory solution to the demands
Araz

 

[araz]

US Will use you like a tissue Paper and then throw you away.Just take a look at our history.

Again in order to extract Reaper from US of A some education would be needed to deliver to US about Importance of Pakistan in defeating Taliban.

But our Foreign Minister is so innocent and Soft.We never had any good and cunning foreign minister except Bhutto.

It is as much our fault as it is US's. Our leadership has always failed to understand the significance or the lack of it, of US friendship. We have a national trait, of expecting more than we deserve as a matter of right, and relying on it to an extent that we dont do anything ourselves. If we had relied on ourselves rather than the US, we would have developed our own resources a lot earlier in the developmnent of our nation.So when we were offered a steel Mill, we chose to buy 3000 Mercs instead. You have to have self respect before others will respect you.Our leadership has too much respect of the US and not enough self respect which is why we are in our present state of despair. We had the sixties as an indicator of what goes on in the US and yet we chose to go and sit in their laps again and again. With the Exception of Zia, nobody has had the gumption to say No to the US. So is it any surprise that we are treated like tissues. If we have self respect and stand up for our rights instead of buckling in like a house of cards, then we will be treated with respect. Also we need to understand the American way of negotiating.MastanKhan has indicated in his posts that we dont know how to deal with the US. I think he has a genuine point there.
regards
Araz

 

[karan.1970]

The problem remains lack of trust.I dont see much hardware coming other than a few drones and some F16s and choppers.These are what we need and can sustain through our own resources.However, where US will be vital for us is to open the door to nuclear acceptance.This may allow us the liberty to negotiate with the world about having better Nuclear technology.Our energy and water needs are vital and we need those much morew so than military hardware. Some financial relief would also be offered.However the art is in negotiating. One always asks for more than one expects to get to arrive at a mutually satisfactory solution to the demands
Araz

spoken like a true think tank

 

[Hulk]

Pakistan has been asking US to put pressure on India, USA did try to put some but it realizes it will not work. One has to understand that there are some issue where a country will prefer to suffer then to relent and USA realizes that, the same thing applies to Pakistan. So people should realize that this will not work, I do not know when we will realize the realities and start working for practical solutions.

Now comes to alliance with USA part, fact of the matter is every relationship is driven by interest. USA has its interest in Pakistan due to it providing access to central Asia, facilities for war on terror, base in Asia etc. Pakistan in return gets some free money, access to military hardware at discounted price etc.

Now just because you are ally does not mean you can ask for anything and everything. As I understand USA will make sure it does not hand over any military technology to Pakistan which is significantly advance and there is a reason to it, it will never make Pakistan strong enough that it starts refusing USA. A week Pakistan works for USA more then a strong Pakistan, a strong Pakistan will not need USA and hence USA will lose leverage. So it will do only as much to pacify you.

Nuke deal not happening, Pakistan's track record comes as hindrance, it might start some dialogue which might bear fruits in coming years. It will depend on how Pakistan manages its image in future. Unfortunately in today's world Pakistan is only few nation that often says it can use nukes as first strike. While it might bring some good things by doing so, it has its disadvantages too. One has to be very careful about their image building, unfortunately Pakistan has not cared as much and it has its own downfalls.

Their is a reason why other countries make sure that they convey message to world that nukes are only for their defense, they are not fool. You do not want other to feel insecure and put defensive measures.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

US-Pakistan seek to move beyond mistrust​

The Obama administration is touting high level meetings with Pakistan in Washington this week as a major deepening of ties with its nuclear-armed ally but gaping mistrust lingers over issues from security to aid.

Only last week, Pakistani Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi, who is leading the Pakistani side, complained that Washington must now follow through on its promises.

US officials also say it is taking time to restore trust that has been absent for decades but cite improvements in security cooperation, particularly after Pakistan's arrest of the Afghan Taliban's military commander earlier this year.

This is a work in progress," said UsS Special Representative to Afghanistan and Pakistan, Richard Holbrooke.

Wednesday's meetings, called a "strategic dialogue", will be led by foreign ministers but also attended by military, finance, agriculture, energy and other officials.

Pakistan's powerful Army General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani will be there, indicating the military's central role in relations with Washington, particularly as the US steps up its campaign in neighbouring Afghanistan.

"How can you have a strategic dialogue without including the military?" said Holbrooke when asked to comment on Kayani's inclusion in the talks.

One cause of tensions is a widely-held belief that Washington will quickly abandon the region after its troops start to withdraw from Afghanistan from mid-2011, a goal announced by President Barack Obama in December.

ASSURANCES SOUGHT

"What I would be looking at is how the US can reassure Pakistan that it is not going to leave the way it did in the past. There have been periods of intense engagement followed by periods of neglect," Pakistan's ambassador to the United States, Husain Haqqani, told Reuters.

Pakistan expert Alexander Thier said Obama's December speech was seen by many as a signal the United States would not be robustly in the region in the next few years.

"This is a battle of perception," said Thier, of the US Institute of Peace. "We are trying to convince them we are not going to pick up stakes and leave," he added.

Defence Secretary Robert Gates, who was meeting Kayani on Monday, said he would emphasize Washington's commitment.

"What we are interested in is looking at the long term in the relationship between the United States and Pakistan, how we can strengthen our relationship, and how we can help Pakistan in dealing with the security challenges that face them, but also face us, and NATO," Gates said before the meeting.

US and Pakistani officials said there would likely be greater details given of security help for Pakistan, with timetables on when funds and equipment would be delivered, as well as specifics on water, agriculture and energy projects.

However, Haqqani said this week's meetings were more about how the two nations could build confidence than aid packages.

"There has always been insufficient trust between us. This is a very important meeting in terms of building this trust."

INDIA'S ROLE

Another area Pakistan wants to cover in the talks is India's growing role in Afghanistan. Haqqani said Islamabad wanted to be certain that its own security concerns were addressed in the region.

Pakistan's recent help in reeling in the Afghan Taliban follows months of intense prodding by Washington and is seen by many as Islamabad's wish to play a bigger role in future negotiations with militants as the war comes to a close.

There is also growing anger over increased attacks in Pakistan on civilian targets and while opinion polls show strong anti-American sentiment, they also indicate decreasing support for the Taliban.

"The challenge for the United States is how to translate the changing Pakistani sentiment against the Taliban into a more positive sentiment towards the United States," a senior Pakistani official told Reuters.

But winning over the Pakistani public is a complicated business. A $7.5 billion, five-year civilian aid package passed by the US Congress last year was met with deep suspicion over US motives rather than the appreciation Washington wanted.

Final details of how that money will be spent are still being worked out. Plans to funnel more aid through Pakistani non-governmental organizations and the government have slowed down the process as Congress requires strict monitoring of US taxpayer funds.

Another round of high-level meetings is expected in Islamabad later in the year, possibly in June or August, although final dates were still being discussed.

US-Pakistan seek to move beyond mistrust - Reuters -

 

[air marshal]

Army Chief meets top Pentagon leaders

WASHINGTON, March 23 (APP): Chief of the Army Staff Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani discussed defense cooperations with top Pentagon leaders Monday as part of a series of Strategic Dialogue meetings this week that seek to expand and strengthen Pakistan-US partnership. Kayani had a meeting with Defense Secretary Robert Gates at the Pentagon, during which they discussed defense and security cooperation. Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and Under Secretary of Defense for Policy Michele Flournoy joined Secretary Gates at the meeting.

Ahead of this week’s dialogue, Gates had said the talks would focus on developing long-term relationship with Pakistan and ways Washington can assist the regional ally in meeting seucrity challenges facing it.

Over the weekend, Gen. Kayani, met with U.S. Central Command Commander, Gen. David Petraeus to reaffirm the strategic partnership between Pakistan and the United States.

Gen. Petraeus and Gen. Kayani discussed ways to advance cooperation and collaboration in countering extremist violence in Afghanistan, as well as U.S. support for Pakistan’s struggle against violent extremists.

On Afghanistan, they discussed improvements in coordination between Pakistan’s military and U.S. forces in Eastern Afghanistan, the Centcom said.

Petraeus commended Kayani on Pakistan’s hard-fought gains against the Tehrik-i Taliban Pakistan (TTP) in the Swat valley, as well as the Pakistani military’s impressive counter-insurgency campaign.

During his own visit to Pakistan last month, the CENTCOM Commander traveled to Swat and has since noted the strides Pakistan has taken in that region.

Gen. Kayani also met with Special Operations Command Commander, Adm. Eric Olson, and watched the U.S. Navy ‘Blue Angels’ flight demonstration team at the MacDill Air Fest Sunday.

Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi will co-chair the strategic dialogue on Wednesday with Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. Defense Minister Ahmed Mukhtar, Army Chief Kayani, Defense Secretary Gates, Admiral Mullen and senior advisers and federal secretaries of key departments from both countries will take part in the wide-ranging strategic partnership dialogue.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I am scratching my head after putting myself in clothes of Pakistan. I am finding it difficult how i be able to convince USA to serve menu of 56 pages. Any help please.

High demands, low counteroffers, settle in between ...

 

[fatman17]

mods this thread shd be merged with the 'strategic dialouge' thread IMO

 

[Speaker]

Any country should have the right to use nuclear technology for peaceful purposes, including Iran. However, I think Pakistan might have a problem getting this deal without signing the NPT. I know this will be double standards on the part of the US, but that is how popular perception is in these times.

While this forum debates with sincerity, there are hardly any news items in the Western media about this issue. There is a random article in the Guardian, UK by a Pakistani correspondent. So I doubt if US is taking this issue as seriously as India, Pakistan or China. NDTV has a video of Hillary Clinton being interviewed by a Pakistani news channel. Listening to her, I don't feel encouraged to think this deal is anywhere near conception. For the most part, she keeps using indirect references to the nuclear deal saying "that and all other issues", supported by euphemisms and platitudes.