THE MYTH OF NORTH AFRICA AS ARAB,UNCOVERED

[MICA]

not surprised

 

[AmirPatriot]

this is still going?

 

[Saho]

Ethnically, I always assume the "real" Arabs originate from the Arabian Peninsula, aka the true descendent of Prophet Ismail, the rest aren't but assimilated.

But I think after the spread of Islam and the conqueat, the term "Arab" have various meaning like mix of many races who got to adopt the Arabic language as their mother tongue which happened throughout the MENA region.

How many people refered themselves as Arabs in the far Maghreb region or in the Levant during Roman times? Was the language spoken outside the Peninsula before the conquest or were the tribes scattered around the MENA?

 

[Mamluk]

How many people refered themselves as Arabs in the far Maghreb region or in the Levant during Roman times?

@Saif al-Arab might be able to answer that. I think I've read somewhere that the Levant was considered one of the three parts of greater "Arabia" by the Romans. But yeah, unlike today, I'd guess all those people did not speak one single Semitic language.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

@Saif al-Arab might be able to answer that. I think I've read somewhere that the Levant was considered one of the three parts of greater "Arabia" by the Romans.

Everything that anyone can question or think about asking has been explained by me in detail using sources as well. As for some of the questions that our Eritrean brother based in Australia is asking, I touched upon this in post 80 in this thread.

Basically there is nothing called "real or true Arabs" as the first Arabs appeared in recorded history some 3000 years ago in the borderlands of Arabia, Levant and Mesopotamia. Of course descendants of Prophet Ibrahim (as) and Prophet Ismail (as) lived all over what is the Arab world today (Semitic and Afro-Asiatic speaking world) but that was before most of the modern-day ethnic groups existed.

In reality what became Arabs back then were Semites (not only however) who were descendants of previous native civilizations. Later Arabs consolidated themselves and established kingdoms across Arabia, Levant (Ghassanids) and Mesopotamia (Lakhmids)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghassanids

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakhmids

Earlier you had Nabateans and other early Arabic-speakers in Hijaz and Southern Levant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabataeans

In short it is quite complicated but basically all-modern day Arabs descend from native, mostly Semitic-speaking peoples (not only of course) and people who spoke Arabic in pre-Islamic and Islamic times. Arabian tribes migrating all across the Arab world is a well-recorded fact in history as well as a genetic facts as several sources posted by me and others already confirm as will a simple Google search.

My post number 80 in this thread:

"When you ask Arabs in Arabia what they consider themselves they will say Arabs too but that does not mean that we deny the fact that we also descend from native non-Arab Semitic peoples (and non-Semitic peoples) and civilizations.

For God's sake we have Southern Semitic speaking peoples in Southern Arabia (Yemen, Oman etc.) who are as native as anybody yet they do not consider themselves Arab.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Semitic_languages

Let me give you an concrete example. In KSA, contrary to popular believe, we have some of the most diverse people and basically we have citizens of all origins. Africans, Uzbeks, Turks, Persians, Caucasians, South Asians, South East Asians. Descendants of Muslim pilgrims who went to Makkah and Madinah for the past 1400 years. Nowadays they are Saudi Arabian citizens and their families have lived in Hijaz (mostly) for centuries and intermarried with locals and other peoples. They consider themselves Arabs and also have Arab ancestry but they are obviously not "pure" whatever that means.

Arabs might be one of the oldest recorded ethnic groups which a history of at least 3000 years but in the Arab world, the Arabian Peninsula included, you had many other peoples who predate Arabs. Arabs did obviously not jump down from the sky 3000 years ago but the people who began to call themselves Arabs and started to speak Arabic 3000 years ago in the borderlands of Arabia, Levant and Mesopotamia, were obviously descendants of previous native civilizations and peoples who happened to be closely related due to sharing similar ethnic groups (Semites and Hamites) and speaking similar languages and having mostly similar cultures and obviously geographic proximity.

This below describes it well:

Before the expansion of the Arab Empire, "Arab" referred to any of the largely nomadic Semitic people from the northern to the central Arabian Peninsula and from the Syrian Desert.[32][33] Currently "Arab" refers to a large number of people whose native regions form the Arab world. The ties that bind Arabs are ethnic, linguistic, cultural, historical, identical, geographicaland political.[34][35][36]The Arabs have their own customs, language, architecture, art, literature, music, dance, media, cuisine, dress, society, sports and mythology.[37][38][39]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabs

A more simple solution, which many have been proponents of lately, is that everyone who has Arabic as a mother tongue and considers himself an Arab, is an Arab.

At the end of the day all humans have the same DNA and ethnic groups are largely social constructs but it is nevertheless a fact that certain regions, like the Arab world, have specific haplgroups and cluster with each other. Same story with other parts of the world.

That however does not mean that all Arabs have the exact same history or culture which many non-Arabs misunderstand or are simply unable to understand.

You go to KSA and have such a discussion and you will witness long discussions among Hijazis, Hasawis, Southerners, Northerns etc. doing their utmost to show how "different" they are from say Najdis (the dominating minority). Similar to the city-countryside divide in every Arab country.

You think that an cosmopolitan Tunisian from Tunis has the same identical culture or identity as an nomadic Berber/Arab in Southern or Central Tunisia?

Such discussions are simply too simplistic."

Ethnically, I always assume the "real" Arabs originate from the Arabian Peninsula, aka the true descendent of Prophet Ismail, the rest aren't but assimilated.

But I think after the spread of Islam and the conqueat, the term "Arab" have various meaning like mix of many races who got to adopt the Arabic language as their mother tongue which happened throughout the MENA region.

How many people refered themselves as Arabs in the far Maghreb region or in the Levant during Roman times? Was the language spoken outside the Peninsula before the conquest or were the tribes scattered around the MENA?

Just so you know at the time of the birth of Prophet Muhammad (saws) much of Arabia did not speak Arabic. You still have populations (various Southern Semitic-speaking peoples) in Southern Arabia (Yemen and Oman - apparently where the only "real" Arabs live) who speak Arabic as their second language.

Let me make this very simple.

3000 years ago (when the first recorded Arabs appeared in history - same time period as when the first Persians/Iranian peoples and Jews appeared in history btw) you had numerous Semitic-speaking peoples living in close proximity to each other.



They spoke related languages that were often mutually intelligible. They were obviously related too. When the first Arabs appeared in history 3000 years ago they were obviously not that much different from neighboring Nabateans, Assyrians, Babylonians, Jews etc. Eventually a process of Arabization, the same as the previous process of "Aramaiczation" occurred all across the Arab Near East and different peoples (all closely related) intermingled as they always did and Arabic culture became the dominant one when Islam emerged.

Same story with the closely related Semites and Hamites in nearby North Africa who were similarly Afro-Asiatic speakers and already genetically related (sharing the same haplogroups by large) and having close ties since Neolithic times due to migrations from the Arab Near East.

So it depends on your definition. But no, we are not all similar and all regions of the Arab world have their own unique heritage apart from the Arab one. However that does not mean that we are not related or that we where not that even before Islam. We were.

The same case is with every ethnic group of this size be it Han Chinese, Slavs or others.

@Slav Defence brother this thread has been discussed to death and we keep discussing the same issues again and again. Moreover certain users have turned this thread into a personal exchange where insults are written left and right.

Not only that the information that the thread starter has provided is inaccurate as already proven by numerous sources if you take a look at this thread and the sources posted.

It should be closed as similar threads discussing similar topics.

 

[XenoEnsi-14]

Basically there is nothing called "real or true Arabs" as the first Arabs appeared in recorded history some 3000 years ago in the borderlands of Arabia, Levant and Mesopotamia. Of course descendants of Prophet Ibrahim (as) and Prophet Ismail (as) lived all over what is the Arab world today (Semitic and Afro-Asiatic speaking world) but that was before most of the modern-day ethnic groups existed.

What about Qahtanites and Adnanites?

 

[Taimoor Khan]

@waz

Sunshine, I am just replying in the lingo that you understand. You are one who lost the gaskit after getting spanked intellectually.

 

[EgyptianAmerican]

Sunshine, I am just replying in the lingo that you understand. You are one who lost the gaskit after getting spanked intellectually.

Don't kid yourself,

Your comment was reported for Racism,Arab bashing and blatant insulting without any contribution to the thread or idea at hand because you are too obsessed with the idiotic idea of creationism. I am done repeating myself. Everybody can clearly see that you are insane and lack any mental brain power to comprehend evolution. So be it.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Don't kid yourself,

Your comment was reported for Racism,Arab bashing and blatant insulting without any contribution to the thread or idea at hand because you are too obsessed with the idiotic idea of creationism. I am done repeating myself. Everybody can clearly see that you are insane and lack any mental brain power to comprehend evolution. So be it.

Joke is on you boy. You started f'ing this and f'ing that. Calling me a christain (a kafir). I have been actually very civilized with you.

With age you will learn the intellect and true essence of Islam. Its not your fault.

 

[EgyptianAmerican]

Joke is on you boy. You started f'ing this and f'ing that. Calling me a christain (a kafir). I have been actually very civilized with you.

With age you will learn the intellect and true essence of Islam. Its not your fault.

Obviously not as proven by you and your blatant racism. I was pointing out facts and scientific proof while you kept citing a stupid youtube video with some egotistical imam. You are lucky us Arabs civilized you lot and revealed to you the truth you lucky prick. You are also lucky that us Arabs are more civilized than you and do not stoop to your pathetic level by being ignorant and utter racist pricks especially considering that I had quite a few hurtful insults that were made by your christian brothers in the church.

Now go screw off, I have no time to deal with idiots like you.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Obviously not as proven by you and your blatant racism. I was pointing out facts and scientific proof while you kept citing a stupid youtube video with some egotistical imam. You are lucky us Arabs civilized you lot and revealed to you the truth you lucky prick. You are also lucky that us Arabs are more civilized than you and do not stoop to your pathetic level by being ignorant and utter racist pricks especially considering that I had quite a few hurtful insults that were made by your christian brothers in the church.

Now go screw off, I have no time to deal with idiots like you.

I merely put you and your kind in place, for you it might seems as racism, but its just stating the facts, nothing more nothing less.

I can overdoze you with information but whats the point in it? That youtube was very concise and to the point, with lectures given by famous Islamic scholars who know what they are talking about, not some random average Joe like yourself. I can bet you havent even watch that 10 min clip. otherwise you wont be farting left right and center, aimlessly. You have ZERO knowledge what Islam says about the creation of Adam (AS) , the Ruh (soul) and the different phases and realm it goes through. All this cannot be explained or reconciled with the "theory", I repeat only a "theory" not FACT of evolution . Problem with piglets like you who just came out their puberty and still high on hormones, they have a tunnel vision. Without understanding what Islam is actually saying, you are trying to understand Islam by wearing glasses of science, it should be other way around.

You civilized us? LOL . You little rat, we developed the humanity first civilization right here in our Indus plains, and while we sit top of the food chain looking down, its laughable to see you and your kind making these outlandish claims. We being the torch bearer of civilization , like others, you lot learned the civilization from us. Indus is the mother and cradle of civilizations, it owe nothing to anyone, specially low live scumbags. Like I said, we are not only 2500 years older then you but wiser as well. Understand your place.

Now back to the sewer you came from you little rat. And while you are at it, watch this clip as well. This guys is most closet you can find among Islamic scholars who more or less agree with your point , yet, draw a clear red line when it comes to humans and their beginning, which is the creation of Adam (AS).