The Muslim country that dislikes Iran almost as much as Israel

[Indus Pakistan]

The problem with Pakistani leadership is lack of vision and backbone. In Pakistan the enegy deficit is crippling the economy. How is that even concievable when right next door Iran has some of the largest gas reserves in the world?

The Iran-Pak pipeline should have been a reality. In addition the Afghan issue has the most impact on Pakistan ( most refugees ) and Iran ( second highest refugees ) in addition Afghanistan is our ( both countries ) back yard. Therefore Pak/Iran should have worked togather and have been on the ground sorting out the future of that country. This is gross failure of Pakistan and Iran that we allowed half the world to traipse around from the other side of the earth while we just look on and try to control via 'remote control' what goes on in there.

Pak/Iran should have sat down, locked the door and not get up until a common policy on Afghanistan was crafted. Then put it into action. That is why I feel Pakistan really needs to get working with Iran like it was before 1979. As a carry on of that period the Iranian Embassy moved to the Pakistan Embassy in USA. To this day Iran operates within the pakistan Embassy in Washington.

Interests Section of the Islamic Republic of Iran in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The pro Persian sentiment in Pakistan lasted well till 1979. The Pakistan national anthem is heavily Persianized Urdu. Sir Allama Iqbal the idealogue of Pakistan wrote lot of books in Persian.

Qaumi Taranah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

One of Iqbals poetry being sung by Ali Shehkhi and Qizilbash in 1970s on Pak Television ( PTV )

I think over the long term geography and geopolitics are going to conflate and find Pak and Iran back on the same track. I have no doubt about it. That is why I always look at Iran in a positive light. It is like a brother you perhaps have had a misunderstanding with but you both know your destiny will bring you togather again. I would like to apologize to Iranian's here for the comments of some idiotic Pakistani's who can't look beyond their noses.

I leave with the same singer in song I often heard when I was young.

 

[jamahir]

--- Do you know why during GW-1 so many emotional Pakistanis made HUGE billboards of Saddam Hussain and installed them forcefully in many major cities? even at the cost of severe ramifications for Pakistan?

in india during the 1990-91 gulf war, i was young lad then and there was a saying among the muslims i knew ( most of the indian muslims were not reactionary then )... "bush ko push karo, saddam hussain ko khush karo"... for the non-hindi-urdu speakers, "push george bush out of west-asia/world, make saddam hussain happy"... a uncle of mine worked in iraq in the saddam era and he says it was a fine time.

the kuwait invasion was a mistake of iraq but saddam was generally good, whatever others might say.

--- Do you know Gaddafi is still a hero (a sports stadium still named after him) even when Libyans beat the same Gaddafi with shoes and shot him? Clearly us being out of sync with ordinary Libyans.

i will say only this... if by 2011, there would have been a position called "president of the world", it would have been muammar gaddafi... no single modern leader did as much for humanity as this man did.

let the iranis remember that libyan jamahiriya supported the khomenei regime in the iran-iraq war... that was a libyan mistake.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

That applies to Pakistan as well - More so as it is right next to Iran. Through history at times Pakistan was satrapy of Persian Empires. The Parsi community in Pakistan is also very influential. The defining differance between Urdu/Hindi is that Urdu has higher levels of Persian words, other than that both languages are two sides of the same coin.

* I used to love reading this guy's cloumns on Dawn Newspaper

Ardeshir Cowasjee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Pakistani Zoroastrians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Cowasjee was an awesome man... Smart,witty,intelligent and humourous!

May Almighty bless him:

 

[FaujHistorian]

........ Pak/Iran should have sat down, locked the door and not get up until a common policy on Afghanistan was crafted.

Atanz bhai jaan

Not possible after 79. Mullahs and Ayatullahs are extremely sectarian and thus cannot sit down with Pakistan for a long term strategy. Even when Pakistan really really tried, Iranians always did push long sword in Pakistani policy's heart.

Iranians never understood that any instability in Afghanistan disrupts Pakistan much much more compared to any other country bordering Afghanistan.

And yet Iranians utterly refused to listen to Pakistani concerns.

So please, let's not expect too much from Iranian regime.


p.s. Just remember, Iranian regime is extremely jealous of Pakistan. you know why? iranian regime wants to be Pakistan but the world doesn't allow Iranians to do this.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

in india during the 1990-91 gulf war, i was young lad then and there was a saying among the muslims i knew ( most of the indian muslims were not reactionary then )... "bush ko push karo, saddam hussain ko khush karo"... for the non-hindi-urdu speakers, "push george bush out of west-asia/world, make saddam hussain happy"... a uncle of mine worked in iraq in the saddam era and he says it was a fine time.

the kuwait invasion was a mistake of iraq but saddam was generally good, whatever others might say.



i will say only this... if by 2011, there would have been a position called "president of the world", it would have been muammar gaddafi... no single modern leader did as much for humanity as this man did.

let the iranis remember that libyan jamahiriya supported the khomenei regime in the iran-iraq war... that was a libyan mistake.

Saddam was a good person ? Although we had "alright" relations with Iraq .. And even trained their officers.... But the guy was an asshol3... He massacred the Kurds ... Rab his country like a mad man... Heck even supported terrorism in Pak... The iraqi consulate in Pak was raided and a huge cache of arms was recovered.

 

[ali_raza]

iran is there in our culture and language.but recent iranian arrogant policies are draining all there respect.saudis once had god like respect in pakistan wich is fading like anything.thats cos there arrogance.i hope our arab brothers will not be hurt

 

[FaujHistorian]

That applies to Pakistan as well - More so as it is right next to Iran. Through history at times Pakistan was satrapy of Persian Empires. The Parsi community in Pakistan is also very influential. The defining differance between Urdu/Hindi is that Urdu has higher levels of Persian words, other than that both languages are two sides of the same coin.

* I used to love reading this guy's cloumns on Dawn Newspaper

Ardeshir Cowasjee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Pakistani Zoroastrians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You know Pakistan was and has been refuge for all Iranian parsis, Bahais, and jews when they were all persecuted by iranian Ayatullahs now and in distant past.

Thus the presence of parsi community in Pakistan is the very indication that Pakistan and Iranian regime are poles apart.

 

[C130]

I don't got a problem with Iran.

their people and government didn't attack us.


worse they have done to use is chant "death to america" but they can do that til the cows come home for I care.

 

[ali_raza]

Atanz bhai jaan

Not possible after 79. Mullahs and Ayatullahs are extremely sectarian and thus cannot sit down with Pakistan for a long term strategy. Even when Pakistan really really tried, Iranians always did push long sword in Pakistani policy's heart.

Iranians never understood that any instability in Afghanistan disrupts Pakistan much much more compared to any other country bordering Afghanistan.

And yet Iranians utterly refused to listen to Pakistani concerns.

So please, let's not expect too much from Iranian regime.


p.s. Just remember, Iranian regime is extremely jealous of Pakistan. you know why? iranian regime wants to be Pakistan but the world doesn't allow Iranians to do this.

there is a little difference between self respect and arrogance.the only achievement pakistan have is its pragmatic policies.where we mad our army strong and went nuclear in the same time getting American dollars.so i think that is where the problem its our national psychology.kaam hona chahiye baki kal dekhe ge

 

[FaujHistorian]

iran is there in our culture and language.but recent iranian arrogant policies are draining all there respect.saudis once had god like respect in pakistan wich is fading like anything.thats cos there arrogance.i hope our arab brothers will not be hurt

Amen brother. you said it right.

worse they have done to use is chant "death to america" but they can do that til the cows come home for I care.

hhahaha.

I believe this is very very very limited view.

 

[Serpentine]

p.s. Just remember, Iranian regime is extremely jealous of Pakistan. you know why? iranian regime wants to be Pakistan but the world doesn't allow Iranians to do this.

Not possible after 79. Mullahs and Ayatullahs are extremely sectarian and thus cannot sit down with Pakistan for a long term strategy. Even when Pakistan really really tried, Iranians always did push long sword in Pakistani policy's heart.

Iranians never understood that any instability in Afghanistan disrupts Pakistan much much more compared to any other country bordering Afghanistan.

And yet Iranians utterly refused to listen to Pakistani concerns.

Lack of the most basic knowledge about international relations and how countries choose their interests, is the only thing I see in your post. Sheer ignorance, no offense intended of course. You don't even know that Iran, like others, doesn't give a f8ck about sects as long as countries act friendly. Kuwait is one example, despite being in GCC, having Sunni rulers and majority, it has excellent and calm relations with Iran, the same about Oman. But as soon as countries act hostile, they shouldn't expect flowers. It's mostly Arab countries who act sectarian in their behavior towards Iran, the prime example being, giving tens of billions of dollars to Saddam Hussein to fight Iran in 1980 onward. We are going to make sure they'll pay for it as long as they remain hostile towards us. Pakistan also supported Saddam, but it realised its mistake after raiding Iraqi embassy and finding big amounts of arms and Iraqi clandestine activity in Pakistan.

Iran's sole problem with Pakistan is terrorist groups at borders, there is absolutely no other issues between Iran and Pakistan, absolutely nothing important. Even Afghanistan issue can be resolved by sitting and talking.


Your comments about Iran are extremely biased, you pretend to complain about sectarian policies, yet you yourself are acting sectarian. Just wanted to make a correction to your post.

 

[Madali]

Polls show Arabs viewed Assad as their favorite leader in the world just a few years back. A lot of people can't think independently and intelligently. The leaders and media tells them Iran is Bad Guy (because Iran is the ONLY country in middle East not to host US bases) and the public believes them. But we don't worry. Truth and Justice always win in the end. The same people were kissing Saddam's *** when we were standing alone against him and now their stupid regime is gone and we remain and no decent person misses Saddam anymore.

And here is something embarrassing for Jordan. The second country that has the most negative views of our country is you guys, so close to Israel. What nice company you keep. I would be so ashamed to post a poll that showed my countrymen so much like Israelies!!

 

[C130]

Polls show Arabs viewed Assad as their favorite leader in the world just a few years back. A lot of people can't think independently and intelligently. The leaders and media tells them Iran is Bad Guy (because Iran is the ONLY country in middle East not to host US bases) and the public believes them. But we don't worry. Truth and Justice always win in the end. The same people were kissing Saddam's *** when we were standing alone against him and now their stupid regime is gone and we remain and no decent person misses Saddam anymore.

And here is something embarrassing for Jordan. The second country that has the most negative views of our country is you guys, so close to Israel. What nice company you keep. I would be so ashamed to post a poll that showed my countrymen so much like Israelies!!

well they did get their butts kicked twice by the Zionists, better to be friends and benefit from peace and security.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Atanz bhai jaan

Not possible after 79. Mullahs and Ayatullahs are extremely sectarian and thus cannot sit down with Pakistan for a long term strategy..

Incorrect. Don't read Iranian clergy like ours. Their's are refined, educated and mostly men of substance - Not that I agree with them. I think you pretty well should know by now I am a left leaning secularist. The fact that Iran and Pakistan diverged post 1979 is sad but it was all about the geopolitics of that time.

We had Zia who was beholden to US and was using the US and Saudi as puppets on a chain playing "jihad wars" in Afghanistan against the Soviets. All that was smokescreen to get the nuclear weapons and buy legitimacy for his government at the same time. In addition Saudi petrodollars did not hurt either. Of course looking back with benefit of hindsight that was a very expensive deal because it led to our society being divided along sectarian lines in addition to religious intolerance and radicalism that still is tearing at us today.

Even when Pakistan really really tried, Iranians always did push long sword in Pakistani policy's heart

When was this. Please give referance. Post 1979 we were in bed with USA and Saudi that meant it would have required some fine diplomacy to stay "tight" with Iran as you know how they felt about USA in particular after the revolution and the failed US raid to free the hostages they were very wary of countries that were allied with US.

Operation Eagle Claw - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Iranians never understood that any instability in Afghanistan disrupts Pakistan much much more compared to any other country bordering Afghanistan.

They do understand. The Iranians have got couple of thousand years experiance and they damned good at international politics. Indeed they are grandmasters at it.

And yet Iranians utterly refused to listen to Pakistani concerns.

This is a two way street.

So please, let's not expect too much from Iranian regime.

Agreed but expect even less from our regime.

p.s. Just remember, Iranian regime is extremely jealous of Pakistan. you know why? iranian regime wants to be Pakistan but the world doesn't allow Iranians to do this.

You got be kidding here. I have had Iranian friends from schooldays. Never, I mean never do they want to be Pakistan. The problem with Iran is they are in the wrong part of the world. Their social, educational, historical and societal development is so advanced that they can match Western Europe but sadly for them they are stuck in the primitive Middle East with neighbours like Saudia, Afghanistan and of course Pakistan.

Guess how tired they are of us? They have built 16 feet high wall betwen Iran and Pakistan. what does that tell you. If my neighbour built a 16 feet wall between us what would I conclude?

1. He wants to be like me and is jealous.
2. He can't stand even looking at me and has partitioned himself from me because he does not want anything to do with me.

You know Pakistan was and has been refuge for all Iranian parsis, Bahais, and jews when they were all persecuted by iranian Ayatullahs now and in distant past

After the 1979 revolution there were some Iranians who were pro Shah who ended up in Pakistan but then they moved to Western countries. They just used Pakistan as a conduit to the West.

Thus the presence of parsi community in Pakistan is the very indication that Pakistan and Iranian regime are poles apart.

Fauji come on man don't embarass us. The Parsi have been in Pakistan since well over thousand years. You hardly think they came after 1979. Look at typical Parsi in Pakistan like Ardeshir Cowasjee he was born in Karachi in 1926.

Ardeshir Cowasjee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

@Serpentine I am afraid we need more education ( real that opens the mind ) before we can get anywhere. I know if our officials sat down with yours over one week we could change the entire course of events in our part of the world. For now we are cursed to suffer fools.
But when I look at this region I can see what is going to happen. The Saudi will ( already are ) going to gang up into the "Arab brotherhood", the Turks are already one step inside Europe and soon they will be inside Europe and then they will shut the door on us.

We have animosity with India so who is left. We can only move forward by sitting with Iran and try to sort out Afghanistan and move toward Central Asia. These idiot Pakistani's don't see this. Of course there is another choice. Would they prefer us to join in with the Indian's?.................

That is what our neighbourhood offers. there is no other options. The sooner we realize this the better it is.

@C130 You definiely don't let yourself be informed by Fox news. You got it right 100%.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Incorrect. Don't read Iranian clergy like ours. Their's are refined, educated and mostly men of substance - Noth that I agree with them. I think you pretty well should know by now I am a left leaning secularist. The fact that Iran and Pakistan diverged post 1979 is sad but it was all about the geopolitics of that time.

We had Zia who was beholden to US and was using the US and Saudi as puppets on a chain playing "jihad wars" in Afghanistan against the Soviets. All that was smokescreen to get the nuclear weapons and buy legitimacy for his government at the same time. Saudi petrodollars did not hurt. Of course looking back that was one a very expensive deal because it led to our society being dividedalong sectarian lines in addition to religious intolerance.



When was this. Please give referance. Post 1979 we were in bed with USA and Saudi that meant it would have required some fine diplomacy to stay "tight" with Iran as you know how they felt about USA in particular after the revolution and the failed US raid to free the hostages,

Operation Eagle Claw - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



It does understand. The iranians have got couple of thousand years experiance and they damned good at international politics. Indeed they are grandmasters.



This is two way street.



Agreed but expect even less from our regime.



You got be kidding here. I have had Iranian friends from schooldays. Never, I mean never do they want to be Pakistan. The problem Iran is they are in the wrong part of the world. Their social, educational, historical and societal development is so advanced that they can match Western Europe but sadly for them they are stuck in the primitive Middle East with neighbours like Saudia, Afghanistan and of course Pakistan.

Guess how tired they are of us? They have built 16 feet high wall betwen Iran and Pakistan. what does that tell you. If my neighbour built a 16 feet wall between us what would I conclude?

1. He wants to be like me and is jealous.
2. He can't stand even looking at me and has partitioned himself from me because he does not want anything to do with me.



After the 1979 revolution there wewre some Iranian who were pro Shah who ended up in Pakistan but then they moved to Western countries. They just used Pakistan as a conduit to the West.



Fauji come on man don't embarass us. The parsi have been in Pakistan since well over thousand years. You hardly think they came after 1979. look at typical Parsi in Pakistan like Ardeshir Cowasjee he was born in Karachi in 1926.

Ardeshir Cowasjee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

@Serpentine I am afraid we need more education ( real that opens the mind ) before we can get anywhere. I know if our officials sat down with yours over one week we could change the entire course of events in our part of the world. For now we are cursed to suffer fools.
But when I look at this region I can see what is going to happen. The Saudi will ( already are ) gang up into the "Arab brotherhood", the Turks are already one step inside Europe and soon they will be inside Europe and then they will shut the door on us.

We have animosity with India so who is left. W can only move forward by sitting with Iran and try to sort out Afghanistan and move toward Central Asia. These idiot Pakistani's don't see this. Of course there is another choice. Would they prefer us to join in with the Indian's?.................

That is what our neighbourhood offers. there is no other options. The sooner we realize this the better it is.

@C130 You definiely don't let yourself be informed by Fox news. You got it right 100%.

As usual you are a master of writing. I admire this quality.

I'll get back to you point by point.

But let me request you not to abuse yourself and our country by calling our leaders "puppets".

Every leader in this world can be called this. Not just you but many Pakistani lefties have a habit of doing so without any concern of the country.

I urge to respect the office of Pakistan's presidency and PM ship even when you may disagree with individuals living in that place.

Thank you.

......
Lack of the most basic knowledge about international relations and how countries choose their interests, is the only thing I see in your post. Sheer ignorance, .

Agha Jaan

Iranian culture teaches one thing first.

how to respect others. I don't see that in our post. Sadly.

your knowledge about Iran-Pakistan issues is very very limited. Hence your knee jerk response filled with personal attacks.