The logic behind JF-17s ?

[Storm Force]

Rubyjackass.

No offence but i will be shocked and very impressed if LCA ever gets past 80 planes by 2020 before being ditched.

FOR IAF with MMRCA coming post 2013 MORE mki and PAK FA i don,.t see need for tejas

 

[shchinese]

FOR IAF with MMRCA coming post 2013 MORE mki and PAK FA i don,.t see need for tejas

LCA is being used as:

1. bargain chips to lower the price for the above mentioned imported fighters. basically they can say "see, we have our own LCA, you'd better give some discount. "

2. propaganda material to make indians believe the current regime in india cares about the defence and can bring advanced techs into the defence.

 

[GLOBAL HAWK]

LCA is being used as:

1. bargain chips to lower the price for the above mentioned imported fighters. basically they can say "see, we have our own LCA, you'd better give some discount. "

2. propaganda material to make indians believe the current regime in india cares about the defence and can bring advanced techs into the defence.

Now thats a completely new way to look!

 

[DaRk WaVe]

I think JF17 is meant for countering LCA which is being inducted in comparable numbers by IAF

really???

 

[circuitbaba]

I would like to make 3 points

1. JF-17 is carrying SD-10 which outranges R-77 by 20 km...Check globalsecurity..for specs. IAF Flankers and Bison are the only AC that carry R-77...and mind it its not R-77M1.....IAF R-77's range is 100km...remaing jets are outgunned with Mig-29 carries R-27 (30km)....Mirage 2KH carries Matra 530D(40km) and the remiang IAF jets which are 50% dont even carry a BVR

2. Secondly 250 JF-17 are enough for air defence over the Pakistani skies under our own SAM vover they dont really need large range as Mig-29,Mig-21,Mig-27 all have limited ranges....and they constitude more than 70% of the IAF

3. Su-30MKI is no F-22.....It can be scaned from a great distances with its Large RCS equivalent to An-32......presence of AWACS reduced any advantage the BARS-1 radar has over KLJ-7

LAst BHai Chill PAF is professional organization it knows what its doing....u(Thread author) me and esp the Indians dont have to worry abt our PAF strength

 

[DeathGod]

LCA is being used as:

1. bargain chips to lower the price for the above mentioned imported fighters. basically they can say "see, we have our own LCA, you'd better give some discount. "

2. propaganda material to make indians believe the current regime in india cares about the defence and can bring advanced techs into the defence.

1. Cant be used as a bargain chip because for succeful negotiation one needs to be on the same page . IAF has a tender for a medium multi-role fighter.If you think that other nations are so foolish that they will negotiate for a price IF India talks about its Lightest aircraft which BTW isnt even operational with the AF then well you are living in a fool's paradise.I hope you pick up a book by Deepak Malhotra on Negotiation, the guy is a teacher at Harvard and writes well.

2. Surely propaganda!!! That is why every failure of LCA is highlight so much as it is. Propaganda is when you only show the successes and not the failures.Dude seriously, I am at loss as to how you formulate such arguments.

@Topic

I think JF-17 was the cheapest replacement that the PAF could afford , which when aided with some avionics from the west will be a preety potent fighter. Also I think the PAF's doctrine will be one that puts emphasis on defensive manouvering over pakistan and JF-17 being a decent dogfighter is moderately suited to the role. Also One bird in hand is better than two in the bush.

 

[Gin ka Pakistan]

Su-30MKI enters Pakistan air space , scramble of JF-17s and Su-30MKI is forced to drop its weapons before the target for dog fight so its missions fails and that's it. JF-17s mission is done by quick action and by more in number then Su-30MKI force it to run .

 

[МиГ-29]

Su-30MKI enters Pakistan air space , scramble of JF-17s and Su-30MKI is forced to drop its weapons before the target for dog fight so its missions fails and that's it. JF-17s mission is done by quick action and by more in number then Su-30MKI force it to run .

No one sends MKIs loaded with bombs first. Escort and SEAD MKIs or MIG-29s lead the pack followed by bomber MKIs or Jaguars or Mig-27s. Normally Escorts are heavy often outnumbering bombers by a factor of 3 or even 4:1.

 

[Storm Force]

There are only 10 Thunders in service to day.

Somebody mentioned 250 Thunders in the future.

WELL if your talking 240 more thunders surely we are talking 2020 time frame.

IN 2020 i gurantee IAF will not look like wat it does today.

Firstly they will probaly field 230-280 su30mki tranche 2/3 (which means ibris radar * & kh172 ramjet bvr missle)

Seconly by 2020 they will have inducted 100+ MMRCA either F18SH carrying APG79 radar and AMRAAMD5...or Typhoon tanche 3

Thirdly They may be fielding 80+ Tejas with MK2 having israeli PYTHON5 and eLTA 520 Aesa Radar.

I HAVE INTENTIONALLY LEFT OUT THE 5TH GEN PAK FA i don,t see this happening until 2020+

Indian defense budget TODAY is only $30 billion yet 5 times the Pak budget.

By 2020 Indian defense budget could exceed $60-70 billion THATS BIG .

 

[Storm Force]

iNDIAN STRIKE PACKAGE in the future will consist of

F18/Typhoons/ and jaguar/mirage2000 ( mmrca WILL COME WITH A WHOLE HOST OF NEW STAND OFF STRIKE WEAPONS that fire from 100km away using AESA RADARS and MMRCA will carry highly adbvanced JAMMERS/ELECTRONIC WAREFARE devices..

With top air cover from KH172 bvr missles from 200km by su30mki.

Awacs cover from Phalcon Awacs deep inside India.

This is wat the 250 Thunders will have to stop in 2020

 

[beckham]

I would like to make 3 points

1. JF-17 is carrying SD-10 which outranges R-77 by 20 km...Check globalsecurity..for specs. IAF Flankers and Bison are the only AC that carry R-77...and mind it its not R-77M1.....IAF R-77's range is 100km...remaing jets are outgunned with Mig-29 carries R-27 (30km)....Mirage 2KH carries Matra 530D(40km) and the remiang IAF jets which are 50% dont even carry a BVR

2. Secondly 250 JF-17 are enough for air defence over the Pakistani skies under our own SAM vover they dont really need large range as Mig-29,Mig-21,Mig-27 all have limited ranges....and they constitude more than 70% of the IAF

3. Su-30MKI is no F-22.....It can be scaned from a great distances with its Large RCS equivalent to An-32......presence of AWACS reduced any advantage the BARS-1 radar has over KLJ-7

LAst BHai Chill PAF is professional organization it knows what its doing....u(Thread author) me and esp the Indians dont have to worry abt our PAF strength

Isnt SD-10'S RANGE 100 km ? Anyways having an edge over R-77 by 20 km is not not going to give much of an advantage,

R-27P (AA-10C) semi-active radar guided, long range AAM 130 km
R-27P (AA-10D) Infrared homing extended range version, long range AAM 120 km



P.S not turning into a VS thread, just making a point !

 

[emotionless_teenage]

as for the original question,JF-17 is like a "poor man's viper(F-16,more common name is falcon)"

it is a decent aircraft meant to relace a huge bulk of PAF obsolete fighter aircraft.someone said "second tier aircraft",and i coun't agree more

 

[Sapper]

as for the original question,JF-17 is like a "poor man's viper(F-16,more common name is falcon)"

it is a decent aircraft meant to relace a huge bulk of PAF obsolete fighter aircraft.someone said "second tier aircraft",and i coun't agree more

Dear, you want to know the logic behind JF-17, i present it to you in your own ex-PM's words.
(Please do remember that my admiration for Mr Mahatir Muhammad is beyond that of any of my own leaders, except Mr Jinnah and Mr Iqbal)

You can say that its a poor man's Viper/Falcon, but that was not the motivation, the motivation behind JF17 is that this is OUR falcon, our viper, Our Thunder, and we control what we do with it. In other words, this is the first step to make our own destiny.

Regards,
Sapper

 

[TaimiKhan]

as for the original question,JF-17 is like a "poor man's viper(F-16,more common name is falcon)"

it is a decent aircraft meant to relace a huge bulk of PAF obsolete fighter aircraft.someone said "second tier aircraft",and i coun't agree more

Thank U very much for your such deep insight in this topic, we had no idea about what you just explained in your two liner analysis. In so many posts no one cared to look to the perspective you just gave us. Thx

 

[SSGPA1]

1. Its inferior to PAF's prime rival the Su-30MKI (if anyone can prove this otherwise i would really appreciate it..honestly i mean it)

2. After being unable to modernize itself for over such a long period of time, one would think that PAF deserves a real classy fighter that is fully capable of deterring enemy threats without ANY chance of failure ( please dont say that since our pilots are super good they can take care of anything...Modern warfare unfortunately has shifted more to the technological side and therefore you can't completely just rely on skill anymore )

3. Considering its "air inferiority"..why the hell are we getting 250 ?? ( i know we'll be modifying the future blocks but so will be everyone else !)

My friend on any given day in a war IAF will not have all of its Su-30MKI up in the air against the PAF because of logistics. With 250 plus, PAF will counter the SU series threat with a quality and quantity approach. Keep in mind that we are alos getting F-16s and the J-10s.

Secondly, these JF-17 are going to replace the old Mirages. People are happy because this is a better aircraft than what we have in our inventory today.

Third, JF-17 gives PAF control over spares which is a very important part of any aircraft. There are wuite a few spares changed afetr a certain number of sorties.

IAF is not ENTIRELY made up of 4th gen fighters and PAF will be the same.

Now what is a classy fighter? Is it the one which looks good on your desktop or is it the one which meets Pakistan's needs?

Good guess, the one which meets PAF needs. We don't need a long range fighter as our missile program will take care of enemy targets outside our fighters' range.

For PAF, JF-17 is a classy fighter because it is designed per the needs of the PAF.

So be confident and sleep well at night after thanking Allah for this great achievement.