The Libtard onslaught The Gulf Arab Cultural onslaught and Indian Cultural onslaught on Pakistan

[Psychic]

As a Rajput, I’m very offended by what you wrote.

Even before Islam, we were very different in religion to Hindus of today.

At most the practices stated are done because of pre-partition proximity and borrowing, not necessarily some integral part of our culture.

So, the white sheet given by mother in law of the girl was not a Rajput custom?
The girl not having a say in marriage and not even allowed to see the groom was never practiced by rajputs?
Are honor killings not a Pakistani custom?
Is Karo kari or swara from tamil Nadu?

I don't care whether one looks or feels different to Hindus, what matters the most is one's loyalty to Pakistan and his piety.

It's like saying an Arab is offended because someone told him that they used to burry daughters alive in the era of Jahiliya.

You misunderstood my comment. Ameer Yazeed wasn't a monarch. Continuing discussion beyond this point is at your own discretion ...... not many have the courage to accept the facts as they were.

He wasn't because of the bayyah of the Sahaba and people---The bayyah itself was illegitimate--- the result was massacre at Medina against an "unjust" rebellion.

As we say, in Islam, there is no rule of law but, rule of justice...There is a difference between the two...But yes if it is about legal aspects then it becomes a different story.

 

[Valar.]

Which religion do you want us to follow then? Are you going to invent a Pakistani religion for fellow Pakistanis to follow?

No organized religion at all.

 

[I.R.A]

He wasn't because of the bayyah of the Sahaba and people---The bayyah itself was illegitimate--- the result was massacre at Medina against an "unjust" rebellion.

As we say, in Islam, there is no rule of law but, rule of justice...There is a difference between the two...But yes if it is about legal aspects then it becomes a different story.

Bayyah would come latter, I don't know if it (bayyah) ever happened or not, because Ameer Yazeed was elected for this role during the times of his father. It wasn't his father nominating him, instead he was reluctant and agreed only when Yazeed was voted for the role on a larger scale election. The history can say whatever it wants ...... discredit and insult him how much it wants ..... but many contradictions in this history itself are there to prove his innocence and the character he had.

In Islam ... I guess it is clear that power without law is barbarism and law without power is a sermon. The killings of Umer, Usman, Ali, Hussain were all targeted assassinations ..... obviously someone had to deal with the miscreants trying to destabilize the unity.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

So, the white sheet given by mother in law of the girl was not a Rajput custom?
The girl not having a say in marriage and not even allowed to see the groom was never practiced by rajputs?
Are honor killings not a Pakistani custom?

None of these are acceptable behaviors in our society.

Don’t blame one race for this jahilliyah learned by illiterate people from Non-Muslims.

 

[GumNaam]

I've said it before and I'll say it again...no such thing as indian influence through bollywood. india is just cheap entertainment, nothing else. in other words, sastay bhaand.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

what matters the most is one's loyalty to Pakistan

Rajputs have given much to Pakistan, and even before to the Muslim Dynasties which predate Pakistan.

Our Islamization led to the strength and permanence of Islam in our region.

and his piety.

Only Allah swt can judge that.

 

[Psychic]

No organized religion at all.

No religion = No moral values

No incentive to do good, or refrain from doing bad.

No fear of getting punished for harm done to others in after-life.

Materialistic world view.

End result: Moral decay, money making machines, declining population, faggots who won't fight for their country, subsequent collapse.

None of these are acceptable behaviors in our society.

Don’t blame one race for this jahilliyah learned by illiterate people from Non-Muslims.

When did I blame one race? except for the things most commonly practiced in that one race...

And I gave an example---the Rajputs who converted stopped those pre-islamic practices to a great extent...

You are getting offended for no reason whatsoever as I made a remark that pre-Islamic practices which contradict the principles of Islam are not to be retained as "preserving our heritage and culture".

It's like Egyptians offended by Quran for calling pharaoh a tyrant.

None of these are acceptable behaviors in our society.

Karo kari, vanni and swara etc are still practiced .... And they are not Arab imports but local cultures.

Rajputs have given much to Pakistan

You are again getting offended for no reason whatsoever...
Read it again and slowly this time

I don't care whether one looks or feels different to Hindus, what matters the most is one's loyalty to Pakistan and his piety.

People of Karachi look more like Indians but should I declare them enemies just because they look different to us? They are as loyal as us...and that is what matters to me---that was what I was saying....
In response to this comment of yours

we were very different in religion to Hindus of today.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

And I gave an example---the Rajputs who converted stopped those pre-islamic practices to a great extent...

I don’t agree with your statement of referring to us as Hindu Rajputs. We never considered ourselves Hindus.

Our pre-Islamic religion was not the same as modern hinduism. It revolved around the sun, moon, and fire. We ate beef, heavily, and idolized the bull and horse for their martial strength.

Rajputs lived by a different code of honor and chivalry, and this is precisely the virtue the Macedonians and the Mughals saw in them.

 

[Psychic]

I don’t agree with your statement of referring to us as Hindu Rajputs. We never considered ourselves Hindus.

Our pre-Islamic religion was not the same as modern hinduism. It revolved around the sun, moon, and fire. We ate beef, heavily, and idolized the bull and horse for their martial strength.

Rajputs lived by a different code of honor and chivalry, and this is precisely the virtue the Macedonians and the Mughals saw in them.

Rajput is a title like Raja or Chaudry---not necessarily a single race---you do realize that?

And many were (and some still are) Hindus.

 

[Sam.]

I don’t agree with your statement of referring to us as Hindu Rajputs. We never considered ourselves Hindus.

Our pre-Islamic religion was not the same as modern hinduism. It revolved around the sun, moon, and fire. We ate beef, heavily, and idolized the bull and horse for their martial strength.

Rajputs lived by a different code of honor and chivalry, and this is precisely the virtue the Macedonians and the Mughals saw in them.

Rajput is a title like Raja or Chaudry---not necessarily a single race---you do realize that?

And many were (and some still are) Hindus.

Rajput are kshatriyas who were appointed by Brahmans to rule by birth.

Rajput (from Sanskrit raja-putra, "son of a king") is a large multi-component cluster of castes, kin bodies, and local groups, sharing social status and ideology of genealogical descent originating from the Indian subcontinent. The term Rajput covers various patrilineal clans historically associated with warriorhood: several clans claim Rajput status, although not all claims are universally accepted.

The term "Rajput" acquired its present meaning only in the 16th century, although it is also anachronistically used to describe the earlier lineages that emerged in northern India from 6th century onwards. In the 11th century, the term "rajaputra" appeared as a non-hereditary designation for royal officials. Gradually, the Rajputs emerged as a social class comprising people from a variety of ethnic and geographical backgrounds. During the 16th and 17th centuries, the membership of this class became largely hereditary, although new claims to Rajput status continued to be made in the later centuries. Several Rajput-ruled kingdoms played a significant role in many regions of central and northern India until the 20th century.

It's a social construct not race or caste , Sorry for interference so carry on guys.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Rajput are kshatriyas who were appointed by Brahmans to rule by birth.

Rajput (from Sanskrit raja-putra, "son of a king") is a large multi-component cluster of castes, kin bodies, and local groups, sharing social status and ideology of genealogical descent originating from the Indian subcontinent. The term Rajput covers various patrilineal clans historically associated with warriorhood: several clans claim Rajput status, although not all claims are universally accepted.

The term "Rajput" acquired its present meaning only in the 16th century, although it is also anachronistically used to describe the earlier lineages that emerged in northern India from 6th century onwards. In the 11th century, the term "rajaputra" appeared as a non-hereditary designation for royal officials. Gradually, the Rajputs emerged as a social class comprising people from a variety of ethnic and geographical backgrounds. During the 16th and 17th centuries, the membership of this class became largely hereditary, although new claims to Rajput status continued to be made in the later centuries. Several Rajput-ruled kingdoms played a significant role in many regions of central and northern India until the 20th century.

It's a social construct not race or caste , Sorry for interference so carry on guys.

Rajputs were originally a tribal group from Central Asia. Hinduism’s inclusion of Rajputs and codification happened much later. We even founded the great city of Lahore and the plains of Punjab were our power base where different Rajput clans fought to the death and extinction to prove themselves.

As far as the Indus, our region was off limits to your Brahmanic religion. We didn’t have the caste system as you had it. Iranis, Turkics, Huns, Mongols, Afghans all lived as equals here.

Rajputs are known by ancestral clans and lineages. This is why a Rajput is not accepted until he tells his sharajatul nisab and which major clan they descend from.

Rajput is a title like Raja or Chaudry---not necessarily a single race---you do realize that?

And many were (and some still are) Hindus.

We are a tribal group.

 

[Sam.]

Rajputs were originally a tribal group from Central Asia. Hinduism’s inclusion of Rajputs and codification happened much later. We even founded the great city of Lahore and the plains of Punjab were our power base where different Rajput clans fought to the death and extinction to prove themselves.

As far as the Indus, our region was off limits to your Brahmanic religion. We didn’t have the caste system as you had it. Iranis, Turkics, Huns, Mongols, Afghans all lived as equals here.

Rajputs are known by ancestral clans and lineages. This is why a Rajput is not accepted until he tells his sharajatul nisab and which major clan they descend from.



We are a tribal group.

I am happy for you guys as we were Rajputs before but broke out in Kshatriyas civil war and now Jatts.

 

[Desert Fox]

Most of our "pre-Islamic" practices are from Pre-Islamic cultures --- How do you reconcile a thing which by nature is anti-Islam with Islam?

Those pre-Islamic and post-Islamic practices which according to some are a part of our beautiful culture which musn't be abandoned at all in favor of "foreign" "Arab religion"---the problem is that many of these practices which are still carried out are against the very teachings of Islam, for example;

• Karo kari
• Vani
• Swara
• Mujras on weddings
• alcohol and hash on weddings
• profuse expenditure on weddings
• Not letting the girl see the groom or have any say in marriage
• Grave worshiping (Many things copied from Hindu customs like music also included)
• Dancing on shrines
• Giving white sheet to see blood stains for virginity check (Old Rajput custom)
• Western democratic model
• Western justice system

Above are a few of the glorious pre-Islamic and post-British practices which the people of Pakistan still follow.

I do not see Pakistanis dressing like Arabs, abandoning their cuisine, dress, festivals and language --- so what's all this fuss about?
Most people are dressed in shalwar-kameez or western style clothing here (no one dresses like Arabs) even most of our religious scholars dress in shalwar-kameez, most people eat traditional food roti, naan, saalan, biryani etc and burgers and pizzas (no one even knows how Arabian cuisine looks like), people speak Urdu, regional languages or English (hardly a few people speak Arabic), Weddings, dance, music, sports (Kabaddi, Kushti, gulli danda, tent pegging etc) are all local--- A few clans identify their roots as Arabs but most don't and proudly state their clans and ancestors who converted to Islam... You know what the problem is, the only thing which hurts people here is us following an "Arab religion" and "Arab ProphetSW" , they want us to become hyper-nationalists or secular liberal---both of which is against Islam.

I will tell you what's all this fuss is about--- whenever someone talks about having an Islamic system of governance instead of the current Western system, people start accusing us of aping the Arabs...Whenever someone talks about replacing 1860 era rotten judicial system with shariat and Islamic justice, we are accused of aping the Arabs---Whenever some one talks about behaving like Muslim brothers instead of fighting among-st ourselves...

You know that Islam is the only force which binds the people of Pakistan---The Baloch rebels used to say, that they are Muslims for 1400 years, Pakistanis for 40 years but Baloch for 4000 years , that's why they fight for Baloch cause--- Now many people want us to abandon the only identity which binds the various ethnicities together and they shamelessly label that identity as Arab and foreign when in truth, it was the basis for the formation of this country.

Talking about Kashmir, Palestine, Rohingya etc doesn't make one an Arab---Many non-Muslims also speak against the policies and the state of Israel---but if a Pakistani speaks against Israel, we become "wanna-be Arabs".

The Arabs themselves abandoned their practices from the period of Jahiliya and adopted some completely new and novel practices---but, we can't abandon any of our pre-Islamic(Hindu) practices because if we do, we will be declared as Arab slaves.

Islam is the final truth, it is the complete truth, and whatever contradicts Islamic teachings and values should be dropped. But whatever doesn't contradict the above I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be retained, especially if it doesn't cause any spiritual, moral or societal harm, like the examples you gave of clothing, language, cuisine, dances, etc. After all there was a history to our region prior to Islam. And not everything pre-Islamic is necessarily a bad thing. Although Islam is the complete truth, there are also traces of truth in other religions and worldviews, and useful knowledge available in them too, as was seen when early Muslim scholars translated and preserved many Roman and Greek texts, despite the latter two peoples being pagans and from pre-Islamic era.

As for those who claim Islam is an "Arab religion", I'm certainly not one of those and I don't recall making this claim. Islam is for everyone and is compatible with all peoples and their cultures provided those cultural practices aren't in contradiction with Islam and in that case those that do contradict Islam should, and it goes without saying, be abandoned.

Now, I think I should clarify what I meant by reconciling our pre-Islamic past. We should accept that it is a part of our history and thus our heritage. Doing so doesn't translate to endorsing certain pre-Islamic practices which contradict Islam, it just means that our nation has deeper roots that go back thousands of years.

for example;

• Karo kari
• Vani
• Swara
• Mujras on weddings
• alcohol and hash on weddings
• profuse expenditure on weddings
• Not letting the girl see the groom or have any say in marriage
• Grave worshiping (Many things copied from Hindu customs like music also included)
• Dancing on shrines
• Giving white sheet to see blood stains for virginity check (Old Rajput custom)
• Western democratic model
• Western justice system

Above are a few of the glorious pre-Islamic and post-British practices which the people of Pakistan still follow.

Certainly, these practices must be abandoned because they serve no good from any aspect.

Not letting the girl see the groom or have any say in marriage

This part (in bold) I would have to strongly disagree on. Girls, women in general, should NEVER have a say in any decision making process of immense importance that will end up having repercussions on them, their future offspring, their community and thus their nation as a whole. Marriage is one of these issues of immense importance.

I will tell you what's all this fuss is about--- whenever someone talks about having an Islamic system of governance instead of the current Western system, people start accusing us of aping the Arabs...Whenever someone talks about replacing 1860 era rotten judicial system with shariat and Islamic justice, we are accused of aping the Arabs---Whenever some one talks about behaving like Muslim brothers instead of fighting among-st ourselves...

You know that Islam is the only force which binds the people of Pakistan---The Baloch rebels used to say, that they are Muslims for 1400 years, Pakistanis for 40 years but Baloch for 4000 years , that's why they fight for Baloch cause--- Now many people want us to abandon the only identity which binds the various ethnicities together and they shamelessly label that identity as Arab and foreign when in truth, it was the basis for the formation of this country.

Certainly! Islam is a practical religion that offers practical solutions for its adherents, but even others in general. Islam doesn't oppose practical solutions.

 

[Hamza913]

I don’t agree with your statement of referring to us as Hindu Rajputs. We never considered ourselves Hindus.

Your ancestors did. But it doesn't matter, we all come from Adam alayhis salam who was a Muslim, and we are all Muslim now and most of us have been for hundreds of years.

Our pre-Islamic religion was not the same as modern hinduism. It revolved around the sun, moon, and fire. We ate beef, heavily, and idolized the bull and horse for their martial strength.

It was Hinduism. Hinduism itself varied greatly for different communities, and still does today. Rajput Hinduism was more of a warrior religion than the others, which probably helped so many of you accept Islam.

Rajputs lived by a different code of honor and chivalry, and this is precisely the virtue the Macedonians and the Mughals saw in them.

It had it's goods and bads. Never giving up when facing the enemy, no matter the odds? That's brave. But making your women jump in a fire when they lost? That's stupid. But don't feel bad, you didn't do any of these things, and everyone will have people who promoted such nasties in their lineage.

It's a social construct not race or caste

It's kinda a tribe. Rajputs marry other Rajputs all the time, which has led to the different tribes/clans among them to mix with each other heavily and become closely related. The same can be said with Gujjars and Jats.

 

[VCheng]

we all come from Adam alayhis salam who was a Muslim

How were there Muslims before Muhammad's (PBUH) revelations?