The last time China got into a fight with Vietnam,it was a Disaster

[xesy]

You might have misunderstood my point.I answer to Battle of Bach Dang River reply:"In contrast, Vietnam has a lot of ancient maps and ancient documents confirm Paracels and Spratlys belong to Vietnam."

Please tell me what is ancient maps?Older than nine out of line? Older than the Ming Dynasty map?
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I don'know how you look at Ming Dynasty,if I careless affront your mother country ,I am sorry to you.

Problem is, you never show us your map. Then how can we know which one is older? Pics or didn't happen.

 

[Rechoice]

You might have misunderstood my point.I answer to Battle of Bach Dang River reply:"In contrast, Vietnam has a lot of ancient maps and ancient documents confirm Paracels and Spratlys belong to Vietnam."

Please tell me what is ancient maps?Older than nine out of line? Older than the Ming Dynasty map?
=============================================================
I don'know how you look at Ming Dynasty,if I careless affront your mother country ,I am sorry to you.

Truong Sa, Hoang Sa not belong to China: 1904 Chinese map
A Chinese map published in 1904 reveals that the Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa (Spratly) Archipelagos did not belong to China.

According to the Map of all Chinese provinces map, printed by Shanghai Publishing House in 1904, China stretches as far south as Hainan Island.

Purchasing the map from an elderly man in 1977 Dr. Mai Hong, former head of the Library of the Institute for the Study of Chinese and Demotic Scripts and Cultures, translated into Vietnamese that adequately represents the origin and date of the map.

The map was drawn in the Han (Chinese) scriupt across nearly two centuries (1708 – 1904), from the Kangxi Emperor who ruled China from 1661 – 1722 to the Guangxu Emperor from 1875 – 1908, Hong said.

The emperors asked many clergymen and gifted astronomers and mathematicians to make this map, he said, adding that in 1708, King Kangxi recruited some western clergymen to draw the map of the Great Wall.

In 1711, the King continued to ask the clergymen to survey lands in 13 provinces nationwide. After that, Chinese intellectuals and western clergymen worked together for nearly 200 years to finish this map.

Among the western clergymen were Matteo Bicci from Italy, Joannes Adam Schall Von Bell from Germany, and Ferdinandus Verbiest from Belgium, Hong says.

In 1904, the Shanghai Publishing House printed this map and distributed it to all provinces of the Qing Dynasty, the last imperial dynasty of China ruling from 1644 to 1912. The introduction of the map was written by the director of a Chinese observatory.

According to Pham Hoang Quan, a local researcher on Han-Chinese and Demotic Scripts, the map, measuring 115cm long and 140cm wide, was printed on separate sheets and belonged to a group of large-scale maps.

The map’s accuracy in terms of longitude and latitude is nearly on a par with modern maps. This map was made by experts at the Observatory of the Qing Dynasty, so it can be considered official, he said.

On July 4, Dr. Mai Hong contacted the National Museum of Vietnamese History to hand over the map for display and preservation.

VOV

 

[Rechoice]

A map book titled “Thien Nam Tu Chi Lo Do Thu” compiled by Do Ba (Cong Dao) in the 1650-17th century had a caption below the map of Quang Ngai: “There is a long sand bank in the middle of the sea called Bai Cat Vang (Hoang Sa). The Nguyen Dynasty annually sent 18 boats to the bank in the last month of winter to collect goods, mainly gold and silver, coins, weapons”.

 

[sweetgrape]

Please keep it to the topic. I feel like you are evading some of my points.

1. Well by allies I mean that countries supported by a more powerful nation, by both financial and military means. In many cases, weaker countries allow the stronger ally to carry military operations on their territories. The China-US relationship was what I call "political friendship", ready to backstab each other given the opportunity and benefit. Prior to the border war, Vietnam-China was considered allies. Think about it, China supported Khmer Rogue just like it used to support Vietnam.

2. No, I personally do not blame China for that. China acted in the interest of herself, Vietnam acted for hers. Our interests conflicted and they became hotter and hotter. No one came in to defuse it in time so war happened.
Why did China need a test war? Maybe to prepare for what is happening right now. It's just 35 years, you know.

3. I have no comment for you. Stopping genocide was not good enough for Cambodia, then what could be better?

4. The US even used their fighter to keep Vietnam bomber out of the border. Why did they let our land force enter Thailand? And where is the Thai army? For the record, there is no clash between Thai and Viet forces during that time. Do you have any sources?

5. The CCCP and most of the communist block were in the middle of a total crisis, both financial and political at that time. Could they care to errect more communist gov if they could not maintain their own?

6. Every coin has 2 sides, same goes to stories. I am a young generation who has not experience wars so I am not in the position to judge.

I don't know about your side of story but Vietnam gov under Uncle Ho is afraid of "blood debt" (letting foreigners fight and die for Vietnam). You know when the WWII ended, China (the ROC gov) used to send 20,000 troops to disarm Japanese troops in North Vietnam, why France took care of South Vietnam. Did you think Chiang Kai-shek did not want to establish a puppet gov to support him? I believe he used to "suggest" to aid Vietnam chasing the French out in exchange for the control of the Parliment. Vietnam refused because they knew the Parliment was not enough to pay back the blood of Chinese troops fought for Vietnam, in fact nothing is enough. Back to the topic, in Vietnam-US war, both CCCP and China also made the same suggestion, because at that time they were officially allies to Vietnam. Yet Vietnam still refused. Vietnam accepted both countries to send engineers, military advisors and trainers, with a small force to protect them (just like the US did during the beginning of the war). Vietnam did not allow them to fight in the frontline. The majority of KIAs of Chinese and Soviet troops were mostly due to the bombing of North Vietnam carried out by the US. Vietnamese are in debt to those soldiers, and we pay respect to them. But to their gov, urgh, not so much.

"There is no eternal friendship, only eternal benefit", that's what I read from a Chinese book. When Vietnam-China were at war, each side tried their best to make it look good while the other look bad. Your gov might say China supported everything for Vietnam then Vietnam betrayed China. My gov said that China stole a lot of Soviet supplies to Vietnam and then stamped its seal on the rest, claimed it their supplies and Vietnam was in debt for that. We each trusted our gov and blame the other. But you and me must understand that, gov is gov, and people are people. We cannot hate the people for what their gov does. Have an open mind and hear the story from the other side. Then judge it to yourself.

Too much, a little boring to continue, you said I evade your point, mind show your point in brief, then continue.

 

[AKIRAKUMA]

Truong Sa, Hoang Sa not belong to China: 1904 Chinese map
A Chinese map published in 1904 reveals that the Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa (Spratly) Archipelagos did not belong to China.

According to the Map of all Chinese provinces map, printed by Shanghai Publishing House in 1904, China stretches as far south as Hainan Island.

Purchasing the map from an elderly man in 1977 Dr. Mai Hong, former head of the Library of the Institute for the Study of Chinese and Demotic Scripts and Cultures, translated into Vietnamese that adequately represents the origin and date of the map.

The map was drawn in the Han (Chinese) scriupt across nearly two centuries (1708 – 1904), from the Kangxi Emperor who ruled China from 1661 – 1722 to the Guangxu Emperor from 1875 – 1908, Hong said.

The emperors asked many clergymen and gifted astronomers and mathematicians to make this map, he said, adding that in 1708, King Kangxi recruited some western clergymen to draw the map of the Great Wall.

In 1711, the King continued to ask the clergymen to survey lands in 13 provinces nationwide. After that, Chinese intellectuals and western clergymen worked together for nearly 200 years to finish this map.

Among the western clergymen were Matteo Bicci from Italy, Joannes Adam Schall Von Bell from Germany, and Ferdinandus Verbiest from Belgium, Hong says.

In 1904, the Shanghai Publishing House printed this map and distributed it to all provinces of the Qing Dynasty, the last imperial dynasty of China ruling from 1644 to 1912. The introduction of the map was written by the director of a Chinese observatory.

According to Pham Hoang Quan, a local researcher on Han-Chinese and Demotic Scripts, the map, measuring 115cm long and 140cm wide, was printed on separate sheets and belonged to a group of large-scale maps.

The map’s accuracy in terms of longitude and latitude is nearly on a par with modern maps. This map was made by experts at the Observatory of the Qing Dynasty, so it can be considered official, he said.

On July 4, Dr. Mai Hong contacted the National Museum of Vietnamese History to hand over the map for display and preservation.

VOV

Is this picture?
This is a [清代直属地图],not National map.Can you see Jilin, Heilongjiang, Tibet, Qinghai, Gansu and Mongolia?
In 1904,Mongolia is China's,now is not.But other can you say not China's?
In addition, the territory and territorial waters of the two concepts.

 

[Jlaw]

What is the point for posting old maps. I had a 1980 map that shows Yugoslavia as a country. This thread is pointless. If Vietnam is strong enough, challenge China in a war. Otherwise, know your role and be a subordinate. When China pacify the SCS, you will benefit.

 

[bolo]

What is the point for posting old maps. I had a 1980 map that shows Yugoslavia as a country. This thread is pointless. If Vietnam is strong enough, challenge China in a war. Otherwise, know your role and be a subordinate. When China pacify the SCS, you will benefit.

Best fxxking post. Waste of bandwidth space posting old maps to settle Maritimes dispute. Big countries don't give a shit about cry baby Viets. Might and power dictates who gets what. Live with it.

 

[ViXuyen]

Best fxxking post. Waste of bandwidth space posting old maps to settle Maritimes dispute. Big countries don't give a shit about cry baby Viets. Might and power dictates who gets what. Live with it.

Then stop whining and begging the Japanese for an apology for raping you guys BDSM style.

Pathetic

 

[Rechoice]

Is this picture?
This is a [清代直属地图],not National map.Can you see Jilin, Heilongjiang, Tibet, Qinghai, Gansu and Mongolia?
In 1904,Mongolia is China's,now is not.But other can you say not China's?
In addition, the territory and territorial waters of the two concepts.

The different is that in the Atlas, printed 1904, it stating by Chinese words that Hainan is last point of China looking to the sea, kid.

study your map first.

 

[bolo]

Then stop whining and begging the Japanese for an apology for raping you guys BDSM style.

Pathetic

It is you fools who are crying. Lol.

 

[Rechoice]

It is you fools who are crying. Lol.

Chinese is crying now for it, he he.

 

[conworldus]

The talk of war is down right stupid. Unless Vietnam fires the first shot, there will be no war. China is steadily solidifying its maritime claim with bigger and better ships, and Vietnam simply can't match that.

 

[BoQ77]

some countries are more than happy to give out bigger patrol ships to Vietnam.
Don't worry

 

[CN.Black]

And the next time(coming soon),it will be another disaster.......to vietmonkeys.

 

[Rechoice]

And the next time(coming soon),it will be another disaster.......to vietmonkeys.

what can chinaman do ?