The Karachi that was — and will never be

[Jango]

Since this MQM bullshyte came into being, ANP-MQM feud is taking karachi down with it.

 

[FaujHistorian]

......The worth and vibrancy of a city is not measured by how easily you can find tobacco, booze and hookers. .

FYI, the three ills you mention are in Karachi at this very moment. You can find every ethnicity woman Urdu, Punjabi, Pashtoon, Thai, chinese, Irani etc. etc. So is whisky. The only thing is that we have pushed it down to the dirty and smell ally ways or very high end hotels. Ordinary restaurants cannot serve the tourists what they may want to eat or drink. This is where the problem is.

Tobacoo by the way is already open so no point discussing it.

Your reference to British culture in a derogatory way is strange. You guys all live in British culture, and still hate it. Why it is so,.

Western European culture is not perfect, but it beats hands down the tribal cultures so prevalent in the Middle East, Africa, and Afghanistan.

While Dubai allows everything you hate. The only thing Dubai doesn't allow is the Mullah led lawlessness. While catering to every wish as per the British culture.

See how much progress they have made, while our city have gone down to the level of mogdishu.

peace.

 

[Developereo]

FYI, the three ills you mention are in Karachi at this very moment. You can find every ethnicity woman Urdu, Punjabi, Pashtoon, Thai, chinese, Irani etc. etc. So is whisky. The only thing is that we have pushed it down to the dirty and smell ally ways or very high end hotels. Ordinary restaurants cannot serve the tourists what they may want to eat or drink. This is where the problem is.

The people of Pakistan have a right to decide what kind of society they want. If they don't want liquor stores and other drugs in their community, then they have every right to decide that democratically. The fact that such drugs then go underground is an unavoidable fact of life. In the West, you cannot find heroin in the local grocery store and people go to dark alleyways to find it. The society has decided that it does not want to promote heroin consumption. Does that mean that Western society is "missing" something vital by outlawing these drugs?

Your reference to British culture in a derogatory way is strange.

There is nothing derogatory about the reference. My point was to highlight the fact that the OP is rife with nostalgia about foreign-run businesses. That was then, this is now. Time to move on...

You guys all live in British culture, and still hate it. Why it is so,.

No one hates British culture. We are mature enough to understand the complexity of cultures and the fact that every culture has good and bad. There are many excellent aspects of Western culture that merit adoption -- the proof is in the global domination by Western culture. However, those of us with extensive first hand immersion in Western culture are also quite aware of the problematic aspects; aspects which are known to cause tremendous social harm and are combated by social workers and activists here on a daily basis. Note that I am not saying these evils are unique to Western culture -- I only mention them because they are listed in the OP.

Many people in ex-colonial countries make this mistake of adopting the worst cultural mistakes of the West in an effort to emulate them. Do Pakistanis adopt the Western cultural traits of hard work, honesty, accountability, civic duty and meritocracy? Or do they simply consider themselves Westernized and "progressive" if they chug whiskey and smoke cigars, unlike the unwashed masses of Pakistan?

Western European culture is not perfect, but it beats hands down the tribal cultures so prevalent in the Middle East, Africa, and Afghanistan.

I don't want to rate cultures on a scale, since there is good and bad in all. As I wrote, Western culture has some extremely attractive aspects. As do many Eastern cultures, including Japanese and Chinese cultures.

 

[Developereo]

I can't be bothered looking it up, but anyone interested can find for themselves the huge sums of money Western governments spend on awareness program about alcohol and other drug abuse. That's not even counting the costs to the health care system and other, indirect, costs to the economy and society at large.

Developing countries like Pakistan don't have such huge budgets for social programs, and the luxury of promoting such evils. We have enough problems as it is.

 

[FaujHistorian]

The people of Pakistan have a right to decide what kind of society they want. If they don't want liquor stores and other drugs in their community, then they have every right to decide that democratically. ....

you my dear are mixing completely different ideas here.

In Pakistan, Mullahs and not votes are deciding what type of society we want.

Mullahs are using guns and bombs to terrorize the society and force it to submission on everything including closure of restaurants during ramzan.

Mullahs go on burning and pillaging spree in the name of Islamism aka black-african-Arab tribalism.

Then the likes of you come to us and say don't oppose them. It is all dhoom-cratic.

This is no democracy, it is Mullah-ayatullah cracy.

 

[BelligerentPacifist]

you my dear are mixing completely different ideas here.

In Pakistan, Mullahs and not votes are deciding what type of society we want.

Mullahs are using guns and bombs to terrorize the society and force it to submission on everything including closure of restaurants during ramzan.

Mullahs go on burning and pillaging spree in the name of Islamism aka black-african-Arab tribalism.

Then the likes of you come to us and say don't oppose them. It is all dhoom-cratic.

This is no democracy, it is Mullah-ayatullah cracy.

Shouldn't the orthographically-challenged be relieved of their forum membership before they become a public nuisance?

...
So, what went wrong?
...

After reading a bit of what went above this line, I could only think:
"So, what went right?"!

 

[American Pakistani]

To save Karachi bulldoze all illegal "Kachi abadis" & build some apartment kind of thing where those people would be accomodate legally & provide them jobs so that they will not become target killers, criminals etc. Also there should be crackdown on weapons all over Karachi(legal or illegal), police should be advanced & their salaray should be increased.

My grandfather used to tell me early days(probab 50's or 60's) when people leave the gates open, there was peace everywhere & everyone live like brothers. Today after locking 3-4 doors also you feel insecure.

 

[Developereo]

you my dear are mixing completely different ideas here.

In Pakistan, Mullahs and not votes are deciding what type of society we want.

Mullahs are using guns and bombs to terrorize the society and force it to submission on everything including closure of restaurants during ramzan.

Mullahs go on burning and pillaging spree in the name of Islamism aka black-african-Arab tribalism.

Then the likes of you come to us and say don't oppose them. It is all dhoom-cratic.

This is no democracy, it is Mullah-ayatullah cracy.

What part of "democratic process" is hard for people to understand?

When mullahs (or anyone) uses violence to force their agenda, they are subverting the democratic process and it's the government's job to bring them under control. Like everything else, it ultimately comes down to the government's incompetence to do their job, which is to maintain a civil society where issues are decided by the ballot, not the bullet.

So, ultimately, it is the Pakistani people's fault -- or choice. If they get sufficiently fed up with mullahs dictating things, they will eventually elect a government that enforces law and order.

A good example is abortion rights in the US. The "mullah" counterparts fume just as much, and some even bomb clinics and kill doctors, but most of them know better because they know the authorities, and society in general, will not tolerate that kind of behavior. Any extremists who forget that fact are quickly given a reality check by law enforcement.

Please understand that I make a distinction between fundamental human rights, which are non-negotiable and NOT subject to popular vote, and optional things like alcohol, which are not a fundamental right and are subject to societal consensus.