The J-20-engine discussion is over and other speculative topics ... to separate from the J-20-news !

[Chinese-Dragon]

In Western forums I'm usually called the China-fan-boy

I can't believe that.

Anyway, the official CCTV documentaries have said multiple times that the J-20 is using a domestic engine. Are there any official sources that contradict this information?

But as I said so often: let's agree to disagree until someone truly official either from the PLAAF, AVIC or CAC confirms the type of engine.

Fair enough.

 

[Han Patriot]

CHINESE engine doesn't mean that its WS-15 @Asok its maybe higher thrust version of WS-10X


domestic engine doesn't mean that surely its a WS-15 but may be higher thrust version of WS-10X

Agree bro, we dunno which engine is used.

CCTV is notoriously for its inaccurate reporting on military equipment. I am not buying it until something much more concrete from AVIC. There is no point arguing about it at this moment. J-20 is in service, and it is good enough news for us.

I am buying the domestic engine part but we shall see.

 

[Brainsucker]

So, the only one who doesn't care about which engine that J-20 use is me????

 

[sinait]

So, the only one who doesn't care about which engine that J-20 use is me????

I don't care which engine J-20 use as well.
In fact, I don't care if all the parts are made in China,
but would like China to have that capability eventually.
Only thing important for me is the J-20 beat the shit out of the F-35.
Why is there this requirement for China to have all parts made indigenous ?
It will happen, in its own time.
.

 

[Figaro]

I don't care which engine J-20 use as well.
In fact, I don't care if all the parts are made in China,
but would like China to have that capability eventually.
Only thing important for me is the J-20 beat the shit out of the F-35.
Why is there this requirement for China to have all parts made indigenous ?
It will happen, in its own time.
.

The J-20 will definitely beat F-35 in WVR or dog-fighting with/without WS-15. The only part I'm worried about is BVR where avionics/sensors/air-air missiles and is where the F-35 becomes a very formidable foe. In BVR, the F-35 is miles ahead of the T-50 and probably even better than the F-22.

 

[Deino]

So, the only one who doesn't care about which engine that J-20 use is me????

No ... my wife doesn't care too !

 

[Mitho1980]

Par asanoon ki lena. China ne export.

 

[Figaro]

So, the only one who doesn't care about which engine that J-20 use is me????

The engine the J-20 uses is very important. If it's indeed using an under-powered one, it would adversely affect the J-20's subsonic maneuverability, supersonic regime, and other flight parameters.

 

[Deino]

The engine the J-20 uses is very important. If it's indeed using an under-powered one, it would adversely affect the J-20's subsonic maneuverability, supersonic regime, and other flight parameters.

Indeed, but in the eyes of certain members here an imported or foreign-originated one is always equal to "underpowered" whereas an indigenous engine is equal to a mega-powerful monster engine. IMO there are no relation to thrust and origin.

 

[Figaro]

Indeed, but in the eyes of certain members here an imported or foreign-originated one is always equal to "underpowered" whereas an indigenous engine is equal to a mega-powerful monster engine. IMO there are no relation to thrust and origin.

But if it is using an AL-31F series 3, then the J-20 is indeed very underpowered. The ideal thrust would be over 160 kN for the J-20, which is what the WS-15 accomplishes

No ... my wife doesn't care too !

Is your wife into Chinese military matters also

I don't care which engine J-20 use as well.
In fact, I don't care if all the parts are made in China,
but would like China to have that capability eventually.
Only thing important for me is the J-20 beat the shit out of the F-35.
Why is there this requirement for China to have all parts made indigenous ?
It will happen, in its own time.
.

You should care if all the parts are made in China ... otherwise it would be susceptible to embargoes or industrial delays just like India with its FGFA. If I were Chinese, I wouldn't mind sacrificing a bit of my J-20's capability in order to incorporate domestic technologies ... especially in the event of war.

Following nearly all others here at PDF the WS-15 has finished bench testing and is ready to enter flight testing "soon" ... soon however could mean late 2017/early 2018 or even later. When it will be spotted on an operational J-20 is therefore far, far too early to know. Before that happens surely one or more J-20s will be equipped with that new engine test-wise and IMO if we see any operational J-20B before 2022 it would be a miracle.

By the way following another report I found here, "the WS-15's nozzles are short and stubby, and comes with serrated edges. It'll be pretty obvious when a J-20 mounts them" (via: https://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2403427-1-1.html)

I know concerning this engine discussion I also don't have many supporters (albeit on the other side of the possibilities) since most here believe these latest TV-reports, that claim the J-20 uses already an indigenous engine. IMO it is not and by my theory it uses a special custom-made - maybe China co-developed and financed - uprated version of the AL-31FN based on the M2 ... however others deny this and so it seems ...

Finally there are few who think it is a mystical hybrid or Frankenstein WS-10X based on the WS-10's core mated with an AL-31FN-nozzle + other certain modifications to fool us ... IMO the most unlikely option.

But as I said so often: let's agree to disagree until someone truly official either from the PLAAF, AVIC or CAC confirms the type of engine.

Deino

The "gongke101" guy isn't credible; he claims to work at Liyang and has a large group of CJDBY fanbois. He says that the WS-15 hasn't even begun ground testing yet

 

[Brainsucker]

The J-20 will definitely beat F-35 in WVR or dog-fighting with/without WS-15. The only part I'm worried about is BVR where avionics/sensors/air-air missiles and is where the F-35 becomes a very formidable foe. In BVR, the F-35 is miles ahead of the T-50 and probably even better than the F-22.

Well, F-35 can only become the worst nightmare when at the hand of USAF or USN. In an event of war between China and countries that possess F-35, if USA doesn't involve, F-35 can only give half of it's potential combat capability. That's because these countries don't have the support capability that F-35 needs. Like AWACS, AEGIS, Satellite, etc which the USA have. Even if they have, it doesn't guarantee that those systems are integrated with F-35. And even if they are, countries other than USA can only have limited number of F-35.

So I don't think that comparing J-20 and F-35 is necessary. J-20 is a tough combatant by it's own. But the most important thing is the China's military capability as a whole, how PLA doctrine can utilize the J-20 to it's fullest, and how good is the support that J-20 needs.

We are not talk about McGregor vs Mayweather in here.

 

[Jlaw]

I don't care which engine J-20 use as well.
In fact, I don't care if all the parts are made in China,
but would like China to have that capability eventually.
Only thing important for me is the J-20 beat the shit out of the F-35.
Why is there this requirement for China to have all parts made indigenous ?
It will happen, in its own time.
.

In war time some of these countries may not be able to supply the parts. Always important to have the capability to make all parts

 

[Beast]

I don't care which engine J-20 use as well.
In fact, I don't care if all the parts are made in China,
but would like China to have that capability eventually.
Only thing important for me is the J-20 beat the shit out of the F-35.
Why is there this requirement for China to have all parts made indigenous ?
It will happen, in its own time.
.

If the engine is domestic, it will proved the highest level of manufacturing level in China aviation industries. The number of fighter jet produces is not restricted by the number of engines imported. If the engines are home made, it will also mean the specification level and quality will be far better as China can only import Russian or Ukraine military engines. We all know the state of these 2 countries industries are very bad. Extremely lack of fund, under trained staff and many area of manufacturing have long been neglected and need complete overhaul. You will not get technology breaking stuff for 5th gen engine.

There are large number of foreigner trying to drive down China success and paint Chinese as failure becos if Chinese is united and determine to complete a task. It cannot be stopped. Not even Russia, Europe and North America combined can stopped it.

Most Chinese scientist work for state project not for money. In fact, many are underpaid compare to western scientist. Those Chinese scientist work for China only for the pride of Chinese, Chinese brilliant thousand years of civilization. In fact, Chinese civilization is the world oldest surviving civilization. That is something can be proud of. By working for China and being part of these continue process, they are contributing something. They have written their names as part of these history.

These are something, the money , the western civilization can never matched the Chinese.
This is a great motivation to drive these Chinese scientist and work force to work and improve themselves to highest level to do something for Chinese civilization.

This is also the thing the westerner fear the most. This is something you can never shaken. Money and other incentives can't stop these people. The only way is to destroy their pride, spread fake news of Chinese in-capabilities to diminish their will.

If China can produce LM2500 gas turbine equivalent or 1300/1500 HP with automatic transmission gearbox engine for tanks. There is no reason to believe a modern high thrust aero engine can't be made.

Beware of such people especially from western.

 

[sinait]

But if it is using an AL-31F series 3, then the J-20 is indeed very underpowered. The ideal thrust would be over 160 kN for the J-20, which is what the WS-15 accomplishes

You should care if all the parts are made in China ... otherwise it would be susceptible to embargoes or industrial delays just like India with its FGFA. If I were Chinese, I wouldn't mind sacrificing a bit of my J-20's capability in order to incorporate domestic technologies ... especially in the event of war.

Why is there this demand that China need to be able to make all parts and surpass the US at that.
Its only recently that China was able to make all the parts in the ball point pen though China had been selling them for ages.
Embargo on satellites and the Chinese still came up with their Beidou ahead of the EU's Galileo.
Ban on Intel chips and the Chinese still came up the the Fastest Supercomputer with their own chips.
Why this obsession that the Chinese need to be super human ?
China has already achieved the impossible by coming up with so much success despite restrain and embargo by the US and their allies.
All agree China is behind the US now, but is fast catching up with the US in all fields and even surpassing the US in some. No mean feat.

Of course it is best to be able to make their own engines which they have, just not all.
That will take time or not necessarily to make all, just the important ones.
If China didn't go ahead with the Z-10 attack helicopter because WZ-16 turboshaft engine was not yet available, China wouldn't have so many Z-10 available now that would contribute towards any confrontation with India.

A better engine for the J-20 can wait though it wouldn't be for long.
There are resistance to China's rise on many fronts, the J-20 need to be operational as soon as possible with or without the WS-15.
.

 

[Figaro]

Why is there this demand that China need to be able to make all parts and surpass the US at that.
Its only recently that China was able to make all the parts in the ball point pen though China had been selling them for ages.
Embargo on satellites and the Chinese still came up with their Beidou ahead of the EU's Galileo.
Ban on Intel chips and the Chinese still came up the the Fastest Supercomputer with their own chips.
Why this obsession that the Chinese need to be super human ?
China has already achieved the impossible by coming up with so much success despite restrain and embargo by the US and their allies.
All agree China is behind the US now, but is fast catching up with the US in all fields and even surpassing the US in some. No mean feat.

Of course it is best to be able to make their own engines which they have, just not all.
That will take time or not necessarily to make all, just the important ones.
If China didn't go ahead with the Z-10 attack helicopter because WZ-16 turboshaft engine was not yet available, China wouldn't have so many Z-10 available now that would contribute towards any confrontation with India.

A better engine for the J-20 can wait though it wouldn't be for long.
There are resistance to China's rise on many fronts, the J-20 need to be operational as soon as possible with or without the WS-15.
.

A better engine for the J-20 can wait though it wouldn't be for long.
There are resistance to China's rise on many fronts, the J-20 need to be operational as soon as possible with or without the WS-15.
That's exactly my point : China cannot wait and must incorporate the WS-15 as soon as possible. Something as vital as an aircraft engine (the heart or core) should definitely not be imported ... especially considering Russia is your main supplier. That's exactly my point : China cannot wait and must incorporate the WS-15 as soon as possible. Something as vital as an aircraft engine (the heart or core) should definitely not be imported ... especially considering Russia is your main supplier. I agree with the last part, but under-powered engines really tax on the J-20's overall aerodynamic performance. You shouldn't just push out an incomplete product knowing that they'll be a lot of issues; look at the German "wunderwaffes" in WWII.

In war time some of these countries may not be able to supply the parts. Always important to have the capability to make all parts

That's why domestically produced components are so important. Especially something as vital as a jet engine for a fifth generation fighter. And Russia is often times an unreliable partner too ...