The illicit wine-makers of Pakistan's north

[Hyperion]

Please do elaborate on the 40 days part........

Even a sip of Alcohol would null and void our prayers for 40 days.

 

[Bratva]

Please do elaborate on the 40 days part........

Saheeh Muslim, Saheeh Bukhari. Sunnan Abu Dawood.

 

[VCheng]

I don't understand what point you're trying to make? Later in the life of the nabi as'salaathu was'salaam he used a walking stick when he got old. You will see brothers who are young, using a walking stick because they have a love for the nabi as'salaathu was'salaam not because they need to physically.

Do these brothers also ride around on camels when they have cars too? That is the point. We cannot follow everything Muhammad PBUH did, exactly and all the time. We must follow the Quran first and above everything else, and look for guidance form the ahadith of the Prohet PBUH only when needed, followed by other sources lower down in that list.

 

[denel]

Great stuff. In our neck of the wood, we have mampoer - govt issues very specific family licence as it is a craft here next door in groot marico. They brew to 85% volume not proof. My friend had his moush burnt off while smoking a pipe... a flame sparked it to flame. Mampoer, you can pour into the car and it will run. It is distilled from preska - Peaches although, witblitz is from grapes.

As I found in Oman, liquor is available. A local friend put it rightly, those who are observant wont drink; others who want to drink will drink.

Everyone to their own vices.... live let live... peace shalom.

 

[Azad-Kashmiri]

Do these brothers also ride around on camels when they have cars too? That is the point. We cannot follow everything Muhammad PBUH did, exactly and all the time. We must follow the Quran first and above everything else, and look for guidance form the ahadith of the Prohet PBUH only when needed, followed by other sources lower down in that list.

Those brothers who can afford a camel, sure they do! Bhai-jan I have given you an extensive rulings from the Quran about obeying the nabi as'salaathu wa'salaam and there is NO DOUBT about the namaaz and how it is performed and number of times it is done in what times.

I can go on with further evidences from the quran to prove the importance of following the Nabi as'salaathu was'salaam, but it requires Eman and if someone doesn't have it then there is no point in wasting time. Hence, like the person from Norway on here trying to argue about Alcohol and yet tripping over the meaning of the verses.

Everyone to their own vices.... live let live... peace shalom.

This is one of the downfalls of Bani-Israil who were chosen above all nations, when they took their rabaniyeen as their Ela who made halal-haram and vice versa and allowed them people go astray.

 

[angelandsoul]

It certainly makes sense to think that the Qur'an warns about alcoholism,
and wasting your fortune on games.

Does it make sense to warn for drinking small amount of alcohol,
which medical science has proven improves your health.
Does it make sense to warn against playing cards for fun.
It certainly does not affect your well being negatively.

You are contradicting yourself.



You certainly fail to translate that meaning.

where did I contradict myself ?
Alcohol has been banned for muslims by Allah all mighty, there is no space to drink small amounts of it and gamble small amounts for fun! By your logic a lot of things can be permissable. Small amounts of stealing, small white lies, a little bit of incest, a little bit of fraud etc etc etc a little bit of pork.

What is meant in Quran to be successful is success in this world and the next. Charging people interest will bring you success (most likely) in this world but not in the next. There is a verse in Quran which talks about the profit that can be found in gambling but that it will not pay off in the next world.

Now will a little bit of alcohol and gambling hurt if done in very small amounts for most people, the answer is no, but is it halal absolutely not and its a sin. Also another reason gambling and alcohol are not allowed is due to addictive nature of some people who cant control themselves. So Allah tells
us not to gamble or drink alcohol at all. As everyone can see that for most people no gambling and drinking is actually a good thing!

And I challenge you to prove that alcohol in small amounts is beneficial without any negatives ?

Its a fallacy There is no such thing as a safe level of alcohol consumption | Professor David Nutt | Science | The Guardian

Does that mean people who drink small amounts or gamble small amounts will go to hell for it, The answer is I dont know.
If they do it but know it to be wrong and repent for it and do it out of weakness then Allah is all forgiving.......After all you can pray and fast all your life and give to charity and remember the quran off by heart but if you have ego that makes you think that you are better than other people and think you are morally superior to others and so on, you can be pretty sure paradise is not where you will be heading if you dont change that attitude.

On the other hand if you do small amounts of gambling and alcohol and think that you are not doing anything wrong and that its actually halal! You can be certain if you dont change your attitude paradise probably wont be your destination in the after life. If you even believe in that!

 

[Metanoia]

At the end of the day we will have several varying opinions on alcohol.

*Those who enjoy alcohol should have their rights safeguarded and be allowed to enjoy their beverages as long as they're not transgressing the rights of the non-alcoholic community.

*Those who are against alcohol have their rights and they should never be forced to either drink or accept it.

In my life I have never seen an organized effort by a segment which drinks alcohol force their drinking habits on the non-drinking segment of the population. The only countries I can think of which directly interferes in the lives of their citizen in terms of their personal choice when it comes to alcohol are Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and some parts of India. Countries where alcohol is legal and even part of their culture have plenty of foreign and local pupils who chose not to consume alcohol and they live their lives very normally.

It is absolutely unacceptable to impose a set of beliefs or convictions on any individual as this is a blatant disregard of that individual's right.

@Norwegian

 

[Audio]

Religious conondrum here:

If wine is the blood of Jesus, a prophet in Islam if i'm not mistaken, why is it forbidden?

One glass a day of some nice red is actually beneficial for ones health.

 

[angelandsoul]

I agree for the most part.
I dont think that alcohol should be readilly available in the open, but if people want to consume it then they should be able too in private functions or gatherings, hotels etc. Ofcourse public intoxication shouldnt be allowed.
Most ismlamic rules are to avoid public lewdness what one does in privacy as long its not a crime is not the business of the state!

At the end of the day we will have several varying opinions on alcohol.

*Those who enjoy alcohol should have their rights safeguarded and be allowed to enjoy their beverages as long as they're not transgressing the rights of the non-alcoholic community.

*Those who are against alcohol have their rights and they should never be forced to either drink or accept it.

In my life I have never seen an organized effort by a segment which drinks alcohol force their drinking habits on the non-drinking segment of the population. The only countries I can think of which directly interferes in the lives of their citizen in terms of their personal choice when it comes to alcohol are Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Iran, and some parts of India. Countries where alcohol is legal and even part of their culture have plenty of foreign and local pupils which chose not to consume alcohol and they live their lives very normally.

It is absolutely unacceptable to impose a set of beliefs or convictions on any individual as this is a blatant disregard of that individual's right.

I am talking about muslim countries by the way not Non muslim countries. Or even countries where there are more than 30% non muslims

Religious conondrum here:

If wine is the blood of Jesus, a prophet in Islam if i'm not mistaken, why is it forbidden?

One glass a day of some nice red is actually beneficial for ones health.

We dont beleive in chritianity theory about blood of christ......
and a glass of wine a day is not beneficial! It is good for heart but bad for your liver, so overall gain is negated you can check this scientifically!

 

[Metanoia]

I agree for the most part.
I dont think that alcohol should be readilly available in the open, but if people want to consume it then they should be able too in private functions or gatherings, hotels etc. Ofcourse public intoxication shouldnt be allowed.
Most ismlamic rules are to avoid public lewdness what one does in privacy as long its not a crime is not the business of the state!

All the countries I have lived in where alcohol is legal have the law against public drinking, you get picked by the police and it's straight to the station.

However an individual should have the option to buy alcohol in liquor shops or any private business (if they chose to sell alcohol). Also if someone wants to open up a pub or a club where mature adults wants to go and drink out of their own free will they should be free to do so as long as they are not forcing or dragging any non-willing participant to the said places.

 

[Audio]

We dont beleive in chritianity theory about blood of christ......

Okay, fair enough....

and a glass of wine a day is not beneficial! It is good for heart but bad for your liver, so overall gain is negated you can check this scientifically!

Go check on resveratrol found in red grape, it's effects and similar....it extends to much more than merely the heart.
-------------------------


Another religious conondrum.....if intoxicants are forbidden....why all the hashish use?

 

[angelandsoul]

In my opinion this not the way it should be in muslim countries, if hotels or resorts have their own clubs built into the venue and its not completely open access if you know what I mean then fine.
But not just walking down any road in Lahore and coming across a disco night club serving alcohol.

All the countries I have lived in where alcohol is legal have the law against public drinking, you get picked by the police and it's straight to the station.

However an individual should have the option to buy alcohol in liquor shops or any private business (if they chose to sell alcohol). Also if someone wants to open up a pub or a club where mature adults wants to go and drink out of their own free will they should be free to do so as long as they are not forcing or dragging any non-willing participant to the said places.

I will send you here
There is no such thing as a safe level of alcohol consumption | Professor David Nutt | Science | The Guardian

also where in France avid wine drinkers have some of the highest liver disease rates....

Okay, fair enough....



Go check on resveratrol found in red grape, it's effects and similar....it extends to much more than merely the heart.
-------------------------


Another religious conondrum.....if intoxicants are forbidden....why all the hashish use?

Plus they can drink no alcoholic red grape juice to get its benefits!!!

 

[Metanoia]

In my opinion this not the way it should be in muslim countries, if hotels or resorts have their own clubs built into the venue and its not completely open access if you know what I mean then fine.
But not just walking down any road in Lahore and coming across a disco night club serving alcohol.

I completely understand as each country as it's own culture and set of values. However what if there are exclusive zones away from the residential areas?

As I said and I will emphasize again...no one will force you to consume or do anything as it is downright criminal to bend someone's will and infringe on their personal liberty. You will definitely not see discos on every street of Lahore....discos are so outdated anyways.

 

[Audio]

I will send you here
There is no such thing as a safe level of alcohol consumption | Professor David Nutt | Science | The Guardian

also where in France avid wine drinkers have some of the highest liver disease rates....

Plus they can drink no alcoholic red grape juice to get its benefits!!!

okay, the Guardian.....

Alcohol: Balancing Risks and Benefits | The Nutrition Source | Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health

7 Health Benefits Of Drinking Alcohol


Also, to ask more about blood of Jesus....it's not a Christian theory, to the best of my knowledge these are Jesus' own words....doesn't that count? Or you don't believe he said that?

 

[marbella]

Not drinnknig alhocol iz eays. Zina is a difficult part.