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Forceful religious conversion is a fact - for all religions & it is a crime

there is no compulsion in islam, secondly, islam has always been "inspired" to the people embracing it!!

a very famous ayaah in quran "let there be no compulsion in religion"

secondly, the creation of pakistan is a fact that tells us, as a muslim v dont care about the geographic location and our race, islam always comes first!!, v(my family) belong to behar which is in india, our parents, they didnt face any trouble living there, they had no conflicts with hindus and they were completely secure in behar, their lives, properties and every thing, but they left every thing just for sake of islam and pakistan!!!, most of ppl here wouldnt agree but i think in that way, islam comes first then our identity, middle eastern, european american etc etc!!, just a typical pakistani mentality!!!

and i am a die hard admirer of islamic history, all over the world, who cares about hindu history!!
 
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and i am a die heart admirer of islamic history, all over the world, who cares about hindu history!!

Then does that Islamic history also tell you how your ancestors became muslims? Or what was done to them to make them muslims? As far as caring about hindu history is concerned, you should care, because my friend, you have hindu blood in your veins. Your forefathers were hindu, this entire sub continent is Hindu.

Indeed, Pakistan happens to have witnessed one of world oldest civilisations, much older than than hinduism. There's no hindu such thing as hindu blood or hindu DNA.
I'm a pathan and share closer ethnic links with Persia and Afghanistan rather than India. As a matter of fact hinduism never flourished in western Pakistan.

That's your pride speaking. Ignorance is bliss, not in this case though. I am not interested in pulling down any religion, but may be you ought to do a little research about the history of India, that included the land you live on. Have you ever wondered how Islam came to Afghanistan? And how these islamic tribes were formed? The whole sub continent, from Afghansitan to Bangladesh was Hindu land.

The Mauryan Empire : http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bf/Mauryan_Empire_Map.gif

Hinduism in Afghanistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And this is how Islam came to Afghanistan :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_conquest_of_Afghanistan

It's undeniable that every Pakistani, every Indian, every Bangladeshi has Hindu blood. Then why this hatred towards Hindus? You are our blood brothers.
 
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^^ Reading wikipedia on subcontinental history is pointless since it's written by over a billion Indians with nothing to do.

Islam came to Afghanistan through sufistic conversions on the whole. True, it's a bit whacked now, but I think this phase will pass also.

Hinduism originated in the Ganges. Always remember this. It did not escape and go beyond the present borders of India. Not into Pakistan, and certainly not into Afghanistan.

All this is confirmed by your own Holy Books anyway, so I don't see why you don't accept it.

And I don't hate Indians personally at all. It's silly to broadly categorize any group, however tempted I maybe to do it sometimes.
 
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Then does that Islamic history also tell you how your ancestors became muslims? Or what was done to them to make them muslims? As far as caring about hindu history is concerned, you should care, because my friend, you have hindu blood in your veins. Your forefathers were hindu, this entire sub continent is Hindu.

dont know about or ancestors, how they embraced it, but surely, they were one to come forward to embrace islam, because, if u talk abt forceful conversion, muslim occupiers were least interested abt that, or it wuld have been very different sub continent!!, second, abt hindu blood, LOL, even v dont care v r "proud beharis",LOL, v r proud pakistanis, v embraced our religion and our country by will and sacrifice, that v r proud of it!!, v dont even care, our fore fathers left behar :lol:!!
 
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^^ Reading wikipedia on subcontinental history is pointless since it's written by over a billion Indians with nothing to do.

Islam came to Afghanistan through sufistic conversions on the whole. True, it's a bit whacked now, but I think this phase will pass also.

Hinduism originated in the Ganges. Always remember this. It did not escape and go beyond the present borders of India. Not into Pakistan, and certainly not into Afghanistan.

All this is confirmed by your own Holy Books anyway, so I don't see why you don't accept it.

And I don't hate Indians personally at all. It's silly to broadly categorize any group, however tempted I maybe to do it sometimes.

Lol @ Hinduism originated in the Ganges. Always remember this. It did not escape and go beyond the present borders of India. Not into Pakistan, and certainly not into Afghanistan.

Go to a library, pick up a book on medieval Indian history & empires, by a neutral author, come back, reply again.

As far as our holy books are concerned, the Mahabharata talks expansively of Hindu Kingdom of Gandhar, today's Kandhahar in Afghanistan. The vedic scripture and puranas too are full of information about Hindu rule in what is now Afghanistan. I'll not talk about Pakistan because it was a part of Hindu India anyways.

http://www.religionfacts.com/hinduism/history.htm

Although today's Hinduism differs significantly from earlier forms of Indian religion, Hinduism's roots date back as far as 2000 BC, making it one of the oldest surviving religions. Because of its great age, the early history of Hinduism is unclear. The most ancient writings have yet to be deciphered, so for the earliest periods scholars must rely on educated guesses based on archaeology and the study of contemporary texts.

http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/PlainTextHistories.asp?historyid=ab75

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/hinduism/history/history_1.shtml

The earliest evidence for elements of the Hindu faith dates back as far as 3000 BCE.

Archaeological excavations in the Punjab and Indus valleys (right) have revealed the existence of urban cultures at Harappa, the prehistoric capital of the Punjab (located in modern Pakistan); and Mohenjo-daro on the banks of the River Indus.

Hindu blood, everywhere.

You know what is more interesting, Pakistan might well be the land where Hinduism was born. Makes you guys more Hindu than Indians! ;)
 
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SoldierofHind said:
Although today's Hinduism differs significantly from earlier forms of Indian religion, Hinduism's roots date back as far as 2000 BC, making it one of the oldest surviving religions. Because of its great age, the early history of Hinduism is unclear. The most ancient writings have yet to be deciphered, so for the earliest periods scholars must rely on educated guesses based on archaeology and the study of contemporary texts.

This is precisely why I have been addressing the issue of the naming of India on other threads.

It causes this confusion that Hindutva fanatics now seize upon and claim all the achievements of Pakistan, and the concept of Pan-Hinduism.

India was originally Pakistan. "Hindu" is derived from the "Ind", which in term derives from the Indus River.

This confusion has led the history books to not complicate the matter, perhaps because they know their audiences will get confused. So they too just say Hinduism is thousands of years old, but this is not true. Vedism was a completely separate and distincy religion/philosophy to Hinduism. When treated like this, Hinduism is not more than around a thousad years old or so.
 
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SoldierofHind said:
The earliest evidence for elements of the Hindu faith dates back as far as 3000 BCE.

Archaeological excavations in the Punjab and Indus valleys (right) have revealed the existence of urban cultures at Harappa, the prehistoric capital of the Punjab (located in modern Pakistan); and Mohenjo-daro on the banks of the River Indus.

This is a classic demonstration of this confusion, or perversion is perhaps more accurate.

The Indus Valley Civilization was in no way Hindu, but was in fact pre Hindu, and pre anything else. The link between the Harrapan culture and Vedic culture is nonsense also. This was ridiculed by a damning piece by some American professor if I recall.

History and Hindutva Propaganda

It might be tempting to laugh off the Indus script hoax as the harmless fantasy of an ex-engineer who pretends to be a world expert on everything from artificial intelligence to Christianity to Harappan culture.

What belies this reading is the ugly subtext of Rajaram's message, which is aimed at millions of Indian readers. That message is anti-Muslim, anti-Christian, anti-Indological, and (despite claims to the opposite) intensely anti-scientific. Those views pr esent twisted images of India's past capable of inflicting severe damage in the present.

Rajaram's work is only one example of a broader reactionary trend in Indian history. Movements like this can sometimes be seen more clearly from afar than nearby, and we conclude with a few comments on it from our outside but interested perspective.

In the past few decades, a new kind of history has been propagated by a vocal group of Indian writers, few of them trained historians, who lavishly praise and support each other's works. Their aim is to rewrite Indian history from a nationalistic and rel igious point of view. Their writings have special appeal to a new middle class confused by modern threats to traditional values. With alarming frequency their movement is backed by powerful political forces, lending it a mask of respectability that it do es not deserve.

Unquestionably, all sides of Indian history must be repeatedly re-examined. But any massive revisions must arise from the discovery of new evidence, not from desires to boost national or sectarian pride at any cost. Any new historical models must be cons istent with all available data judged apart from parochial concerns.

The current "revisionist" models contradict well-known facts: they introduce horse-drawn chariots thousands of years before their invention; imagine massive lost literatures filled with "scientific" knowledge unimaginable anywhere in the ancient world; p roject the Rigveda into impossibly distant eras, compiled in urban or maritime settings suggested nowhere in the text; and imagine Vedic Sanskrit or even Proto Indo-European rising in the Panjab or elsewhere in northern India, ignoring 150 years of evide nce fixing their origins to the northwest. Extreme "out-of-India" proponents even fanaticise an India that is the cradle of all civilisation, angrily rejecting all suggestions that peoples, languages, or technologies ever entered prehistoric India from f oreign soil - as if modern concepts of "foreign" had any meaning in prehistoric times.

Ironically, many of those expressing these anti-migrational views are emigrants themselves, engineers or technocrats like N.S. Rajaram, S. Kak, and S. Kalyanaraman, who ship their ideas to India from U.S. shores. They find allies in a broader assortment of home-grown nationalists including university professors, bank employees, and politicians (S. S. Misra, S. Talageri, K.D. Sethna, S.P. Gupta, Bh. Singh, M. Shendge, Bh. Gidwani, P. Chaudhuri, A. Shourie, S.R. Goel). They have even gained a small but vo cal following in the West among "New Age" writers or researchers outside mainstream scholarship, including D. Frawley, G. Feuerstein, K. Klostermaier, and K. Elst. Whole publishing firms, such as the Voice of India and Aditya Prakashan, are devoted to pr opagating their ideas.

There are admittedly no universal standards for rewriting history. But a few demands must be made of anyone expecting his or her scholarship to be taken seriously. A short list might include: (1) openness in the use of evidence; (2) a respect for well-es tablished facts; (3) a willingness to confront data in all relevant fields; and (4) independence in making conclusions from religious and political agendas.

N.S. Rajaram typifies the worst of the "revisionist" movement, and obviously fails on all counts. The Deciphered Indus Script is based on blatantly fake data (the "horse seal," the free-form "decipherments"); disregards numerous well-known facts ( the dates of horses and chariots, the uses of Harappan seals, etc.); rejects evidence from whole scientific fields, including linguistics (a strange exclusion for a would-be decipherer!); and is driven by obvious religious and political motives in claiming impossible links between Harappan and Vedic cultures.

Whatever their pretensions, Hindutva propagandists like Rajaram do not belong to the realm of legitimate historical discourse. They perpetuate, in twisted half-modern ways, medieval tendencies to use every means possible to support the authority of relig ious texts. In the political sphere, they falsify history to bolster national pride. In the ethnic realm, they glorify one sector of India to the detriment of others.

It is the responsibility of every serious researcher to oppose these tendencies with the only sure weapon available - hard evidence. If reactionary trends in Indian history find further political support, we risk seeing violent repeats in the coming deca des of the fascist extremes of the past.

The historical fantasies of writers like Rajaram must be exposed for what they are: propaganda issuing from the ugliest corners of the pre-scientific mind. The fact that many of the most unbelievable of these fantasies are the product of highly trained e ngineers should give Indian educational planners deep concern.

In a recent online exchange, Rajaram dismissed criticisms of his faked "horse seal" and pointed to political friends in high places, boasting that the Union government had recently "advised" the "National Book Trust to bring out my popular book, From Sarasvati River to the Indus Script, in English and thirteen other languages."

We fear for India and for objective scholarship. To quote Rajaram's Harappan-Vedic one last time: "A great disgrace indeed!"
 
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This is precisely why I have been addressing the issue of the naming of India on other threads.

It causes this confusion that Hindutva fanatics now seize upon and claim all the achievements of Pakistan, and the concept of Pan-Hinduism.

India was originally Pakistan. "Hindu" is derived from the "Ind", which in term derives from the Indus River.

This confusion has led the history books to not complicate the matter, perhaps because they know their audiences will get confused. So they too just say Hinduism is thousands of years old, but this is not true. Vedism was a completely separate and distincy religion/philosophy to Hinduism. When treated like this, Hinduism is not more than around a thousad years old or so.

Your delirious outburst does'nt change anything. Stop smoking whatever it is that you are.

Fact remains that all you Pakistanis are actually Hindus with Hindu blood running in your veins, living on Hindu land & still managing to hate Hindus. You should come back to your roots, so that the wandering souls of your ancestors who were converted forcefully, can rest in peace.
 
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honestly this guy (soldier of hind) made me laugh.
and today i know how hindus preach others...
grow up buddy and gain some knowledge even abour your own religion before commenting others. and you cannot claim anything on such a childish bases and proving it. if I use the same logice of yours then you must know one thing more that the blood in your veins is Prophet Adam and her wife Eve (we muslim call them Aadam and Amma Hawa) who were Muslims. So we must claim everything on this planet then.
and one more thin before i go to open you sealed brain in hard nut shell that Islam is still the fastest growing religion on earth, even after the nexus of devil working everything possible to distroy it since ages and especially from last two decades and sorry to say but your country is actively seeking membership to that nexus or may already have it.
finally i advise you to please dont get in any debate without having any knowledge or a heart to accept the facts, otherwise you will be locked in a yard as nobody likes when donkeys are braying
 
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Clutching on to straws now, are we? :disagree:

When did Islam come to SE Asia?

What was the religion that was followed throughout the sub continent before that? = HINDUISM

There was no Islam in the sub continent before..guess what..the Islamic conquerers came and converted people. You my friends, are the descendents of those people who were converted forcefully or otherwise (hardly).

Think with an open mind.

Bbye :wave:
 
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the Indus Valley civilisation people worshipped cows, and lots of other Gods and Godesses including a Godess Of Fertitility. They were Similar to the Hindus but The Hindu Scriptures were written after the Indus Valley civilisation was conquered by the aryans (if we accept that). ANyways many artefacts of Gods and Goddesses were found from the harappa burial mounds etc so we can say they were Polytheists and Hinduism is also one.
 
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:partay:

Whatever be the outcome of these arguments I can see one clear point coming out

We all are first humans and humanity is much much greater than religion...

Religion is a teacher to lead life ..We have to be a faithful student if we want to lead a meaningful life...

problem comes from stupid students who worship teacher than what she teaches..

hope every illusion dies because it is not truth:partay:
 
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:partay:

Whatever be the outcome of these arguments I can see one clear point coming out

We all are first humans and humanity is much much greater than religion...

Religion is a teacher to lead life ..We have to be a faithful student if we want to lead a meaningful life...

problem comes from stupid students who worship teacher than what she teaches..

hope every illusion dies because it is not truth:partay:
Yes if we follow this principle and loves all of God's Creations then there will be Harmony!
 
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You're all Hindus, who lost their religion a thousand years ago, it's time you embraced it back.

My cat is also from Pakistan and I don’t think she follows any religion …..I made her read your posts and she not only found them amusing but now seriously thinking about converting to your faith….:)

Dude listen, even if my great great great great great great grand dad was Hindu, so what ….Does this mean that I also convert to the same thing….Few generations further ahead, they perhaps lived in caves…does it amply that I also adopt the same kind of life style….Everyone has moved forward and I suggest same to you too...

I am very happy with my present faith; please don’t tell me what to do which is also none of your business BTW ….Knock it off now…:angry:

Even today, Islam is also one of the most converted religions and no body is poking swords in peoples arses or forcing them to convert….No one forced Ice Cube or Buster Rhymes or Cat Stevens to join Islam against their will….People study it and then make their own choices…..Please open your eyes to the reality and shove your dark aged notions where they belong…
 
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Hindu blood, everywhere.

You know what is more interesting, Pakistan might well be the land where Hinduism was born. Makes you guys more Hindu than Indians! ;)

So it is Hindu blood hunting you from Mumbai to Assam and beyond. Bad thing to blabber about own Hindu blood then.
 
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