The Hard Hitting Truth

[rubyjackass]

Every body is son of Adam ...

Nice try at diplomacy...
Unfortunately for you, Hindu texts have no Adam.

 

[rubyjackass]

honestly this guy (soldier of hind) made me laugh.
and today i know how hindus preach others...

Believe me!! Thats not what we are taught.
He was just making a point to satisfy himself.

if I use the same logice of yours then you must know one thing more that the blood in your veins is Prophet Adam and her wife Eve (we muslim call them Aadam and Amma Hawa) who were Muslims. So we must claim everything on this planet then.

Read my previous post.

and one more thin before i go to open you sealed brain in hard nut shell that Islam is still the fastest growing religion on earth

Honest observation... thats because of high fertility rate and has dangers of fall in standards of living.


Anyway the only point I want to make is that religion is not important as humanity. People should have control of how far religion should take them.
And one more observation, the 'first man theory(Adam in Abrahamic religions)' must be to preserve the idea of purity of religion.

 

[Communist]

My Pakistani Friends,.....Do you guys think you're the direct descendents of the Arabs? Do you think that your ancestors came from Mecca? Wrong. You all have Hindu blood in your veins. Your ancestors were hindu, before they were forecefully converted to Islam by the marauding Islamic armies from the Arabia. Takshila, the hub of Hindu education is in current Pakistan, Mohenjodaro, Harappa, all indicate that what is now Pakistan was once 100% Hindu land, before the Islamic conquest took place.

Where did you get your Phd degree Mr? After reading your thread, though the english is good, I would like to know your educational qualification, if you do not take offense. I just wonder, how many english speaking Hindus like you are there in India!!! How many are really affected by this kind of ignorance, prejudice, biases...!!!

The bigger the number, the bigger the misery of the people of India!!!

 

[Vinod2070]

Pakistanis in general have a major identity crisis.

Pakistan’s Identity Crisis
By Qurratulain

Identity may be defined as a distinctive characteristic of an individual or a particular group of individuals. For one’s survival in this world it is very crucial to maintain his identity. If we expand the criterion of ‘identity’ to national level it is of utmost importance because it is nation’s identity which distinguishes its people from the rest of the world. The importance of national Identity can be better analyzed by the fact that it is the base of all the policies, i.e. domestic and foreign policy and hence the social. economic cultural and ethical development of any country partly depends upon its national identity. In other words actions of a nation are determined by its identity. As far as Pakistan’s identity is concerned, it may be divided into three phases, i.e. pre-partition, post partition and present day. Pre-partition era dates from the Muhammad Bin Qasim’s invasion and conquest of Sind. Muslim identity bore, grew and passed through different stages during this era. The second phase of Pakistan’s identity started with the establishment of Pakistan and the third phase is present day scenario. This ‘identity’ faced variety of crisis in each phase.

The term ‘identity crisis’ is used to denote a particular situation where by an individual, group of individuals or a nation faces conflicts regarding its identity. These conflicts occur when one’s ideological basis and prevailing circumstances contradict in such a way that the prevailing circumstances dominate the ideological basis. With reference to Pakistan the history of ‘identity crisis’ have its roots in the late Mughal dynasty. The comfort-loving attitude of the rulers, bloodsheds for the throne, abandoned faith, mismanagement of domestic economic and political matters, absence of updated foreign developments and other moral, ethical and social weaknesses were the major forces which contributed in the identity crisis of the Muslims of South Asia. In pre partition era where by Muslims of south Asia have lost their regime and British rule tighten the span of their social , cultural and political life. Actually they lost their rule just because of the ‘lost identity’. After a half century of submissive life they began to find the ‘lost identity’ and they succeeded. The two nation theory brought back the essence of Muslim identity, with the help of vigorous leadership of Sir Syed Ahmed khan philosophical guidance of Iqbal, vivid spirit of Quaid and untired efforts of Muslim leaders, women and students. At the end they found their lost identity in the form of Pakistan. This identity was regained after almost two centuries of ignominious identity crisis.

The second phase of identity crisis began very after the inception of Pakistan. The Shia/Sunni crisis at the time of partition was the first of all. But luckily at that time, the crisis was pragmatically resolved by Quaid-e-Azam, so it was buried in a hatchet at that time but later on it burst up from different grounds.
The second case of identity crisis in the chronology is the crisis of East and West Pakistan. At the time of inception, Pakistan inherited East and West Pakistan with one and four provinces respectively. Population of East Pakistan alone was more than that of the total population of the four provinces of West Pakistan. The seeds of identity crisis were sown with the ‘language controversy’, where by Urdu was declared as the national language of Pakistan while Urdu was the influencing language only in West Pakistan. This language controversy and some other strategies which lead to the deprived feelings among the natives of East Pakistan and the ultimate consequence was an identity crisis in the form of separation of East Pakistan in 1971.
Not only the separation of East Pakistan but, a variety of identity crisis cases stood in the post partition era. The list contains delayed constitutional development, unstable political conditions (due to personal likes and dislikes and lust of power), Social injustice and negative image of Pakistan on international screen. Constitution is the base of any new born state but in case of Pakistan this base couldn’t be established even after about a decade of the inception of Pakistan. So when there was no base for people, the process of identity development started very late. Latterly the termination of 1956’s and 1962’s constitutions fulfilled the remaining part of delayed identity development. Secondly the political system of a nation is the index of its identity. Unluckily, in this regard we have not been so fortunate. Almost all the politicians have out shown the ability of exquisite attainment of their personal or group benefits. This created uncertain circumstances for the nation to achieve the identity goal. In this situation the youth couldn’t get the proper guideline for the active participation I the national affairs. Another aspects was lack of opportunities for them to improve the national morale and to set positive trends, which further lead towards another channel of identity crisis.

Part played by social injustice in the development of identity crisis is not negligible. This social injustice also arose at the very threshold of our independence. At the time of partition millions of Muslims migrated, leaving their valuables and properties. This gave the opportunity to some people to attain the acquisition of these massive properties. Such people latterly, enslaved some others in order to become ‘jagirdars’, and hence appeared the identity crisis in the form of ‘feudalism’, making people to forget the ideological agenda under which Pakistan was emerged.

All these factors further participated in corruption, national disharmony, rigid attitudes, misconceptions about the religion (partly the role played by ‘mullas&#8217, blind practices on
unnecessary customs and a list of moral dilemmas. The identity crisis after the partition threw Pakistan in an ignominious status both at domestic and at international arena. Domestically we couldn’t achieve the social status which we’ve dreamt during the Pakistan movement. Economically we stood at the back end of the global economic stage. And above all we were entitled as a ‘terrorist state’ due to some mismanaged and scattered groups. Even some of them really didn’t have the basic knowledge of their ideological agenda.

In present day Pakistan, the situation is more hazardous than that of one discussed in the previous phase. Today’s identity crisis is ‘giant’ in nature aiming to nip our ideology form the bud. Now with changing global environment and with the changing role of Pakistan at international level, the nature of identity crisis has become more complex. The present day crisis may be classified as political, social religious and economic identity crisis.
The social and religious crisis work in collaboration. On the religious part, the extremist group has developed misconceptions about the religion. On the other hand the society is facing the ‘cultural war’ through different media. In such a situation the nation, preferably the youth has contradictions with religious implications which is making them unaware of their ideological basis. In the second step the attractive evil (the weapon of cultural war) is becoming dominant. So the nation’s ideological basis is being deployed by the prevailing circumstances, creating identity crisis. In this case we can’t blame the young mind (as he’s not getting the proper guideline and he has not been trained in such a way that he can find the roots the purpose of his existence, secondly the so called knowledge of religion he gets is not authentic).
The second type of present day identity crisis in Pakistan is political in nature. In fact our political system has always been ruled by reigns in hands of few influencing groups. No such political platforms were built for the coming generations, to ensure their participation in national or international affairs. It is very necessary to train the youth for the participation in national affairs because they are the people who have to run the country in the future. Unluckily our youth didn’t get any such training at any stage of our 59 years history. The ultimate result was that, the administrators belonged to a specific group, making others so annoyed that others even don’t care to have a look at the mismanagement. This imbalance in the political infrastructure restricted the educated youth to participate in the national policies and ultimately the process of policy making enjoyed the influence of un-educated and narrow minded policy makers, who couldn’t devise the identity goals of the nation till yet.

At international political arena we are still facing the vicious circle of ‘terrorism’. Even our government ensured Pakistan’s contribution in the ‘war against terrorism’, but being an Islamic state we become the suspect of any international terrorist act. Here the policy of state is ambiguous, which aims to satisfy the western world but the integration of Muslim world is not to be seen any where. In my opinion we don’t know that where we are standing right now, where we have to go and where we are going?

On the part of economy, no doubt our economy grew with in last half decade but only at macro level. The poor is still standing on the place where he was a decade ago. Increasing
Unemployment, inflation, and poverty etc are not only contributing in social imbalances but because of these factors, a common man is not able to find the basis of his identity.

The identity of a nation is its image, and our image today is ‘a tree whose roots have been cut’. This situation is actually showing our lost identity. We have become much concerned about our outer look but we have forgotten the basis on which we have to develop our inner self. If this process keeps on going with the same velocity, the time is not far when the existence of our identity will vanish.

It is very crucial to have a breach of the peace against identity crisis. In this regard the most important step is identity education. The identity education should be provided at educational institutions as well as in temporarily organized seminars (seminars should be accessible for general public). Identity education will not work till we present a difference between different cultures. Media censorship should also be there in order to lessen the possible damages of cultural war. Media should also spread the knowledge of values among the common men. And last but not least we all should play our part to improve our religious image at international level. In this connection we can spread the true essence of our religion which is peace.

Pakistan’s Identity Crisis Qurratulain

What exactly is it that makes Pakistanis unique, a nation? Is it just Islam? If no what is that additional glue that binds them?

 

[Flintlock]

^^ Reading wikipedia on subcontinental history is pointless since it's written by over a billion Indians with nothing to do.

Islam came to Afghanistan through sufistic conversions on the whole. True, it's a bit whacked now, but I think this phase will pass also.

Hinduism originated in the Ganges. Always remember this. It did not escape and go beyond the present borders of India. Not into Pakistan, and certainly not into Afghanistan.

You obviously know very little about the history of hinduism, or, Afghanistan.

Some recent hindu archaeological finds in Afghanistan:


Kolkata, Jan 4: A stone inscription in Sanskrit, recovered from the city of Mazar-i-Sharif of northern Afghanistan a few years ago, has thrown new light on the reign of the Hindu Shahi ruler `Veka' in that country.

The recovery and significance of the inscription, telling a story of the Hindu ruler Veka and his devotion to lord `Siva', was told by leading epigraphist and archaeologist Prof Ahmad Hasan Dani of the Quaid-E-Azam University of Islamabad at the ongoing Indian History Congress here.

Full article: Inscription throws new light to Hindu rule in Afghanistan

Some light on recent events concerning Hindus in Afghanistan:


Taliban: Hindus Must Wear Identity Labels
Afghanistan's ruling Taliban militia said Tuesday it will require Hindus to wear labels on their clothing to distinguish them from Muslims, a proposal sharply denounced by the United States and India.

Taliban: Hindus Must Wear Identity Labels

List of Hindu Temples in Afghanistan:

Religious Centers

Wikipedia on Shahi Hindu Rulers of Afghanistan:

The Shahi (Devanagari शाह&#2368 [1], Sahi [2], also called Shahiya [3] [4] dynasties ruled portions of the Kabul Valley (in eastern Afghanistan) and the old province of Gandhara (northern Pakistan and Kashmir) from the decline of the Kushan Empire in third century to the early ninth century [4]. The kingdom was known as Kabul-shahan or Ratbel-shahan from (565 - 670 CE) when they had their capitals in Kapisa and Kabul, and later Udabhandapura (also known as Hund)


Shahi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Coins of the Shahi Rulers:



5th Century Ganesh Idol found in Gardez



Afghanistan 1969-1974 -

Gilgit Manuscripts reveal the name of the Shahi King Srideva Sahi Surendra Vikramaditya Nanda:

Gilgit_manuscript_Lokesh_Chandra

Salt Range Temples in Pakistan:

Salt Range Temples, Pakistan

 

[Rajkumar]

there is no such religion, called "HINDU"
i don't think there is term called Hinduism. It was made by some hard liners.
All scripture GEETA, MAHABHARATA , RAMAYANA ,VEDs ,MANUSMIRITI never used word called "HINDU" or any term called "HINDUISM". nor these all books say anything about people following HINDU DHARMA. Interesting fact is there no such term as non-believer in these scripture. These books simply tell to behave according to humanity.
these all books are just ideologies or wisdom for mankind to good extent[not scriptures of so called "HINDUISM"].
Even these books has flaws. Which book doesn't?[now Pakistanis gonna raise eye brows on this statement].

I say, you don't need a religion to have knowledge and live like human,just evolve your own belief system[not a rigid one] with place for new ideas in it.
i need not to go MANDIR if i have faith in god or need not to listen any Brahman for knowledge on god as long as i have my intellect.
infect you don't need to believe in god to be a good human.

WTF "HINDU INDIA" no such term exist and no such thing as HINDU BLOOD.
BLOOD is BLOOD simply.
[yeh hindu ka khoon hai, yeh musalman ka khoon hai, le maine mila dia in donoo ko.... bata kon sa katra hindu ka hai aur kon sa musalman ka hai]

 

[U-571]

Pakistanis in general have a major identity crisis.



Pakistan’s Identity Crisis Qurratulain

What exactly is it that makes Pakistanis unique, a nation? Is it just Islam? If no what is that additional glue that binds them?

the only glue which binds us, is our religion i-e islam, pakistan is "islamic rep of pakistan", that says every thing, even though, v dont have islamic constitution, just an old rusted system of governanve given to us by brits, but its just the matter of tym, when its rejected by ppl of pakistan!!

Nice try at diplomacy...
Unfortunately for you, Hindu texts have no Adam.

he means to say, mankind was created out of single human pair(man, woman)

 

[Vinod2070]

the only glue which binds us, is our religion i-e islam, pakistan is "islamic rep of pakistan", that says every thing, even though, v dont have islamic constitution, just an old rusted system of governanve given to us by brits, but its just the matter of tym, when its rejected by ppl of pakistan!!

If it is only Islam, why not merge with Afghanistan or Iran?

They are also Islamic!

 

[U-571]

If it is only Islam, why not merge with Afghanistan or Iran?

They are also Islamic!

pakistan serves the unity of muslims in south asia. islam doesnt mean that v create a single state out of very diverse race and culture, they have their own way of life, v have ours. i personally alliance should develop bw the islamic countries just EU type and thats it!!

 

[tamir]

Back to the original post..... are you trying to convert us?

 

[Vinod2070]

pakistan serves the unity of muslims in south asia. islam doesnt mean that v create a single state out of very diverse race and culture, they have their own way of life, v have ours. i personally alliance should develop bw the islamic countries just EU type and thats it!!

Though closer, it is still not completely true. Was Pakistan supposed to mean anything to the Muslims of Sri Lanka for example who are also South Asians. You may claim that Pakistan was meant for the Muslims of undivided India before 15 Aug 1947. Even that would not be totally correct.

Pakistan has no more than 1/3 of the Muslims of the pre-independence undivided India!

So again, what is Pakistan's identity, the unique quality that makes one Pakistani?

 

[rubyjackass]

he means to say, mankind was created out of single human pair(man, woman)

I din't mean to hurt him.
Just saying his efforts are in vain.

 

[ajpirzada]

My Pakistani Friends,

We all know how you all hate India & Hindus in particular. But you all need to ask yourselves, why all this hate? There are some serious misconceptions in your country & among you Pakistanis. Now, I know this thread might be just thrown in the pits, but that'd indicate the lack of guts on your side to do a little introspection. Here we go..

The Great Hindu-Muslim Divide.

Do you guys think you're the direct descendents of the Arabs? Do you think that your ancestors came from Mecca? Wrong. You all have Hindu blood in your veins. Your ancestors were hindu, before they were forecefully converted to Islam by the marauding Islamic armies from the Arabia. Takshila, the hub of Hindu education is in current Pakistan, Mohenjodaro, Harappa, all indicate that what is now Pakistan was once 100% Hindu land, before the Islamic conquest took place.

I'm not making things up, go to neutral source. Study the history of United India. The Mauryan Empire, the Cholas, Kanishka, the Gupta empire, the arrival of the Mughals. Before calling abusing the Hindu religion, do a little research on where your ancestors came from. Get a neutral book, and study the Islamic invasion, what they did, how they did it & where they came from.

The religion of Islam was not founded in United India, the United India was 100% Hindu, so how do you explain the current Islamic population of over 40 Crore?!! Forceful conversions.

Now, before you abuse me right, left & centre, please do a little research on what I've said. You're all Hindus, who lost their religion a thousand years ago, it's time you embraced it back.

no one in pakistan hate hindus. there are pakistani hindus as well and we all love each other. if u sometime visit pakistan, u wont find anyone talking about hinduism or anyother religon. the only time when someone says such kind of thing is when he gets frustrated. eg: when muslims get killed by ppl of other religion or when tensions bw indo pak increase etc. u might say y r muslims in pakistan so bothered about muslims in india or muslims else where? one of the posts in this thread said we are indians first and then comes the religon. well that is not how it is. we are muslims first and then comes the nationality. see there is a difference in perspective. likewise we being descendent of arabs or we having pure indian blood doesnt matter. wat matters is that we are muslims.
if our ancester were hindu, y dont u think wat made them convert? were they all being forced? y not also think that may be it was the teachings of islam which they found more convincing eg: Islam doesnt have any cast system lik hinduism (i dont wanna get into islam vs hinduism coz we should all respect each others religion).
regarding forceful conversion:
no muslim conqueror went to africa but still there are many muslims countries in africa, no muslim conqueror went to maldieves but maldieves is a muslim country, there is no war goin on within america today but still islam has the highest number of converts. today islam is the second biggest religion in US. also if i am not wrong mughals werent muslims. they came from mangolia and later converted to islam. who forced them to convert to islam when they had already crushed everyone including muslims. also quote me a single eg of hindu muslim roit during almost 1000yrs of muslim rule over india. if hindus were being forced to convert then y dont we hear any eg of hindu muslim roit. wat was it which made hindus to live peacefully under muslim rule and not complain but when britishers (who were more powerful) came, leave muslims aside but even hindus faught against them tellim them to leave the sub continent.
for once atleast try to think that may be not all of us were forced but may be it was the gudness of islam which attracted us.

P.S: interesting thread

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Thread closed, 'hairy kook' banished ;-)