What's new

The Great Persian Famine of 1917-1919 that killed an estimated 10 million Iranians (over 50% of the

Is it because I have single-handedly dealt with Arab-obsessed Iranian trolls? Well, that's the exact reason.

^^

Anyway this thread is a serious thread. Let us stick to the topic here.

Well, I am really interested in this topic and read everything here, it was you who made the claim and I answered politely with no trolling intentions.

Also I am not going to help you with computer programming in the future if you are only good at trolling. Trolling on PDF is the game of the day but when serious discussions take place one can easily respect each other. Besides I could not care about any insults. Give and take.

No problem my friend, my skills improved a lot and I can handle most of the things I have to do alone now ^^. However, eventhough I recognized my problem before your answer, I am still very greatful for your help and other PDF member's help! Especially the Israeli woman who helped me a lot!
 
. .
^^



Well, I am really interested in this topic and read everything here, it was you who made the claim and I answered politely with no trolling intentions.



No problem my friend, my skills improved a lot and I can handle most of the things I have to do alone now ^^. However, eventhough I recognized my problem before your answer, I am still very greatful for your help and other PDF member's help! Especially the Israeli woman who helped me a lot!

Look quite a few Iranians here, obviously not all, are incredibly hostile towards Arabs despite the fact that there are hardly any active Arab users any longer. When I see such behavior I tend to reply in the same manner. This causes some Iranian users to become butthurt and believe that I somehow deeply hate Iranians. I have said this 1000 times and will say it again whenever necessary. I have no problem with Iranian Persians, Azeris, Arabs, Assyrians, Baloch, Turkmen, Lurs, Kurds etc. as long as individual from one of those groups of people do not hate Arabs or is hostile towards us for simply being Arab.

My problem in relation to Iran is the Iranian Mullah's who rule (leadership) and their policies in the Arab world. I have many "problems" with Arab rulers and policies so it is not limited to Mullah's.

Other than that I see no reason to hate Iran or Iranians. They have never done me any harm.

You think that I would not have similar discussions if some Pakistani, Turkish etc. had a tendency to insult Arabs? I just had such a discussion with an obsessive individual of Pakistani origin on PDF. But does that mean that I have any problem with his people (Pashtuns)? Obviously no.

Also where in this thread do you see trolling? If I wanted to troll I could have changed the nature of this thread very easily and posted very graphic photos.

I was joking. Do you think that I bear a grudge on PDF of all places or even on the internet against people that I have never met and likely never will?

500 is not an Israeli woman and did he really help you in that thread? Must have been after I left. Anyway I a chemical engineer and I am only interested in computer programming as a hobby. Nothing else.

Also I would never have helped an unknown Iranian if I hated Iranians as deeply as some claim here.

Also stop taking everything seriously. Saudi Arabians usually have a big distance towards themselves and love to joke.

Anyway I can delete this thread if it bothers Iranians. I created this thread because I wanted some answers from Iranians who were familiar with this catastrophic event that is largely ignored in the history books. That was all.

It has been an age since I passed by, how is everybody doing? @Saif al-Arab ; @Shapur Zol Aktaf ; @Serpentine @SOHEIL

Dorood bar shoma..

Good to see you back bro. Business as usual here. As for the other lot. They are either dead or missing in action. We miss them but I think that they have boycotted PDF collectively altogether. You know why, probably. It seems that they did not like the "climate" on PDF.

Anyway we are going through some "interesting" times. Not sure what to expect any longer.
 
.
Look quite a few Iranians here, obviously not all, are incredibly hostile towards Arabs despite the fact that there are hardly any active Arab users any longer. When I see such behavior I tend to reply in the same manner. This causes some Iranian users to become butthurt and believe that I somehow deeply hate Iranians. I have said this 1000 times and will say it again whenever necessary. I have no problem with Iranian Persians, Azeris, Arabs, Assyrians, Baloch, Turkmen, Lurs, Kurds etc. as long as individual from one of those groups of people do not hate Arabs or is hostile towards us.

I cannot judge, I answered just your questions with no bad intentions. The rest is between you and other members ^^

My problem in relation to Iran is the Iranian Mullah's who rule (leadership) and their policies in the Arab world.
This is political attitude. For one Mullah's are the greatest murderers of all time for another one the Arab kings and sheikhs are the murderers. I for example have no political attitude towards Iran since I do not live there and cannot judge how it is or who is right about what. I support only germany (my home and my country) eventhough I disagree with foreign US driven policy of Merkel.

Other than that I see no reason to hate Iran or Iranians. They have never done me any harm.
I think this goes for all users here. Arabs, Iranains, Turks, Pakistanis, Indian etc. pp. No of them did experience any harm or hatred in real life ( hopefully) from one of the people above mentioned.

Also where in this thread do you see trolling? If I wanted to troll I could have changed the nature of this thread very easily and posted very graphic photos.
where did I say that :D ^^?

500 is not an Israeli woman and did he really help you in that thread? Must have been after I left. Anyway I a chemical engineer and I am only interested in computer programming as a hobby. Nothing else.

Lol 500? :D no way. It was another user. Very nice person, helped me really a lot in another thread about C.


But lets go back to topic again ^^

Anyway I can delete this thread if it bothers Iranians. I created this thread because I wanted some answers from Iranians who were familiar with this catastrophic event that is largely ignored in the history books. That was all.

no!
 
.
Look quite a few Iranians here, obviously not all, are incredibly hostile towards Arabs despite the fact that there are hardly any active Arab users any longer. When I see such behavior I tend to reply in the same manner. This causes some Iranian users to become butthurt and believe that I somehow deeply hate Iranians. I have said this 1000 times and will say it again whenever necessary. I have no problem with Iranian Persians, Azeris, Arabs, Assyrians, Baloch, Turkmen, Lurs, Kurds etc. as long as individual from one of those groups of people do not hate Arabs or is hostile towards us for simply being Arab.

My problem in relation to Iran is the Iranian Mullah's who rule (leadership) and their policies in the Arab world. I have many "problems" with Arab rulers and policies so it is not limited to Mullah's.

Other than that I see no reason to hate Iran or Iranians. They have never done me any harm.

You think that I would not have similar discussions if some Pakistani, Turkish etc. had a tendency to insult Arabs? I just had such a discussion with an obsessive individual of Pakistani origin on PDF. But does that mean that I have any problem with his people (Pashtuns)? Obviously no.

Also where in this thread do you see trolling? If I wanted to troll I could have changed the nature of this thread very easily and posted very graphic photos.

I was joking. Do you think that I bear a grudge on PDF of all places or even on the internet against people that I have never met and likely never will?

500 is not an Israeli woman and did he really help you in that thread? Must have been after I left. Anyway I a chemical engineer and I am only interested in computer programming as a hobby. Nothing else.

Also I would never have helped an unknown Iranian if I hated Iranians as deeply as some claim here.

Also stop taking everything seriously. Saudi Arabians usually have a big distance towards themselves and love to joke.

Anyway I can delete this thread if it bothers Iranians. I created this thread because I wanted some answers from Iranians who were familiar with this catastrophic event that is largely ignored in the history books. That was all.



Good to see you back bro. Business as usual here. As for the other lot. They are either dead or missing in action. We miss them but I think that they have boycotted PDF collectively altogether. You know why, probably.

Anyway we are going through some "interesting" times. Not sure what to expect any longer.

Thank you. I have noted that some members have gone for ever. It is strange b/c it almost happened suddenly.
 
. .
Thank you. I have noted that some members have gone for ever. It is strange b/c it almost happened suddenly.

They did not like all the frequent troll wars here and they had disagreements with some of the moderators here and their moderation policies. A lot of trolls trolling Arabs, an Arab section were only military matters are allowed to be posted and nothing else, no Arab moderator, no moderator on this section, no Arabic Coffee Thread anymore (closed for unknown reasons) etc. So they joined/moved to "defense Arab", "Arabic-Military" "Arabic Army", "Arab military forums" etc. Some of them created a new forum altogether but it was never really active and I never joined for this reason. Not sure what happened with it.

So basically people returned to the many Arab military forums. Not sure if there are any English platforms dedicated to Arab military forums. I don't think so. Neither forums dedicated for Turkish, Iran military in English from what I know of/have heard.

I cannot judge, I answered just your questions with no bad intentions. The rest is between you and other members ^^


This is political attitude. For one Mullah's are the greatest murderers of all time for another one the Arab kings and sheikhs are the murderers. I for example have no political attitude towards Iran since I do not live there and cannot judge how it is or who is right about what. I support only germany (my home and my country) eventhough I disagree with foreign US driven policy of Merkel.


I think this goes for all users here. Arabs, Iranains, Turks, Pakistanis, Indian etc. pp. No of them did experience any harm or hatred in real life ( hopefully) from one of the people above mentioned.

where did I say that :D ^^?



Lol 500? :D no way. It was another user. Very nice person, helped me really a lot in another thread about C.


But lets go back to topic again ^^



no!

Ok. Well the discussion started because @Serpentine thought that I had created this thread to troll or whatever it was.

I am no fan of any rulers in the region to be honest. I see more negatives than positives. I have respect for nationalist and people who love their country but obviously I cannot agree politically with blind followers of regimes that I dislike/do not agree with at all. It would be good if we could keep the disagreements to being solely about politics but PDF is PDF.:lol:

Oh, my mistake.

I did not know that there were Israeli women here! Good to see that she helped you. Well you should support both Germany and Iran.

Well, I can delete the thread. It's not a problem for me. As I said I only created it to start a discussion about this specific event and for me to get answers (maybe) from local Iranians who might know about this due to being told about this event by grandparents or learning about it from elsewhere.

If those numbers are even remotely correct and even if they are 50% wrong, it still remains the largest famine in the region's contemporary/modern/recent history. It's a huge thing actually.
 
.
Also how could successive Iranian rulers (the last Qajar ruler and afterwards the two Pahlavis) continue such a pro-British policy given that something catastrophic like this had occurred?

The Qajars were just weak-@ss sellouts, among the most hated dynasties in Iran for the failures they had against Russia. Against colonial Britain they just capitulated. So they weren't really friends with the British, just pathetic against them. The first Pahlavi (Reza Shah), while he was a brutal strongman in Iran, was weak against foreign invaders and capitulated to the British again, even when we were neutral in WW2. His son actually came to power when Reza Shah was forced to abdicate by the British. Even in the 1953 coup, the British wanted the oil and the Americans did the dirty work for them. The Shah got friendly with the Americans because they brought him back to power.

The Pahlavis were never politically friendly with the British. Disagreements continued well into the 1970s with Bahrain. The only place they got along was in the arms market. The Shah bought weapons like the Saudis do today, if not even more rapidly.

Was this in any way part of the reason why the Shah was removed and why the anger against his rule was so widespread?

Definitely... Iranian public sentiment against the west was long standing since British colonial interference in the the 19th century, and intensified in 1906 with their interference in the Constitutional Revolution (when they backed the Shah). WW1, WW2, the 1953 coup were all resented hugely by the Iranian public.

How did the average Iranian citizen feel about being ruled by pro-West/British rulers

They were angry that these weak sellouts were selling the country's resources and identity to the west. The Pahlavis in particular were trying to de-Islamise Iran. Reza Shah actually had similar anti-hijab laws to France today, and his son to a similar extent.

You have some of the most pro-Western people in the region but also some of the most anti-Western at the same time.

I don't understand this... we are pro-west in that we give them credit where credit is due, like in technology, sport and economy. But we are against their politics. The ones who do support their politics almost exclusively live in the west, and a lot of these are Shah loyalists.

how could a commoner such as Reza Shah

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reza_Shah

Suddenly turn into a Shah overnight? Was there not a problem of legitimacy?

Monarchy is a fundamentally illegitimate system. This was them bringing in a new dynasty, in this case with a coup d'etat in 1921 (also supported by the goddamned British).

Also why did the majority (Persians) expect non-Persian dynastic rule of Iran for such long?

I've noticed foreigners, especially Arabs, use the term Iranian and Persian interchangeably... Iran is a multi-ethnic state, and we think of ourselves as Iranians first. For example, one of our most successful empires was the Safavid, which was an Azeri dynasty, yet they are praised by all Iranians (and hated by Arabs, though that's another matter) including Persians because they were strong Iranian leaders.

Also is Southern Iran more conservative than Central Iran? What about Eastern Iran?

As I said Northern Iran is mostly cosmopolitan while the south is more rural so it is more conservative. And the East also, because of the proximity to Afghanistan and Pakistan, also with the shrine of Imam Reza (AS) in Mashhad. The notable exception to this is Qom, which is close to to Tehran, because it is the origin of the clergy.
 
Last edited:
. .
The Qajars were just weak-*** sellouts, among the most hated dynasties in Iran for the failures they had against Russia. Against colonial Britain they just capitulated. So they weren't really friends with the British, just pathetic against them. The first Pahlavi (Reza Shah), while he was a brutal strongman in Iran, was weak against foreign invaders and capitulated to the British again, even when we were neutral in WW2. His son actually came to power when Reza Shah was forced to abdicate by the British. Even in the 1953 coup, the British wanted the oil and the Americans did the dirty work for them. The Shah got friendly with the Americans because they brought him back to power.

The Pahlavis were never politically friendly with the British. Disagreements continued well into the 1970s with Bahrain. The only place they got along was in the arms market. The Shah bought weapons like the Saudis do today, if not even more rapidly.



Definitely... Iranian public sentiment against the west was long standing since British colonial interference in the the 19th century, and intensified in 1906 with their interference in the Constitutional Revolution (when they backed the Shah). WW1, WW2, the 1953 coup were all resented hugely by the Iranian public.



They were angry that these weak sellouts were selling the country's resources and identity to the west. The Pahlavis in particular were trying to de-Islamise Iran. Reza Shah actually had similar anti-hijab laws to France today, and his son to a similar extent.



I don't understand this... we are pro-west in that we give them credit where credit is due, like in technology, sport and economy. But we are against their politics. The ones who do support their politics mostly live in the west, and a lot of these are Shah loyalists.



Monarchy is a fundamentally illegitimate system. This was them bringing in a new dynasty, in this case with a coup d'etat in 1921 (also supported by the goddamned British).



I've noticed foreigners, especially Arabs, use the term Iranian and Persian interchangeably... Iran is a multi-ethnic state, and we think of ourselves as Iranians first. For example, one of our most successful empires was the Safavid, which was an Azeri dynasty, yet they are praised by all Iranians (and hated by Arabs, though that's another matter) including Persians because they were strong Iranian leaders.



As I said Northern Iran is mostly cosmopolitan while the south is more rural so it is more conservative. And the East also, because of the proximity to Afghanistan and Pakistan, also with the shrine of Imam Reza (AS) in Mashhad. The notable exception to this is Qom, which is close to to Tehran, because it is the origin of the clergy.

I have heard such views before about the Qajars from Iranians. There seems to be a consensus that they were largely incompetent rulers. Funnily enough one of my Iranian friends/colleagues is apparently an descendent of the Qajar Dynasty. He goes under the name of Dowlastahi. Long story short his father migrated to Western Europe after 1979, got involved with bikers later to be sentenced to a few years in jail for drug smuggling. The group of bikers that he was associated with were apparently behind it while he had little or no involvement but was sentenced to 2-3 years anyways. He converted to Christianity in prison and later his two sons and wife. His eldest son (my friend/colleague) is a lawyer. He works for the international company where I am employed at currently. How I met him. We usually rarely talk about politics, lol. This has nothing to do with the discussion but I thought that I would tell it nevertheless.

I mean polarization in terms of worldview and political beliefs. I have witnessed that in a lot of Iranians. You might not be familiar with this but many Iranian migrants in the West are very anti-Islam. They usually act as representatives of Iranians in the West but in reality they are greatly outnumbered by the average, mostly conservative (compared to the average Westerner at least) Iranian diaspora. For instance I am sometimes participating on Reddit and there is a forum for Arabs and we often interact with foreigners, including Iranians. Iranians too have their own two forums and one is pro-regime (very much so) and the other is extremely anti-regime. What I mean by this is that it is rare to see such fundamentally opposing views in many Arab societies.

Mind you most of those, I assume, are diaspora Iranians not even living in Iran.

I hear that from many Iranians but at the same time Iranians take pride in their history which was always monarchial. So there is a bit of paradox here IMO.

Well, I think that has to do with the historical factor. From an Arab perspective, Iranian Arabs for instance, while Iranian citizens, are not really looked at as foreigners or as completely distinctive people. Turkmen in Iran for instance are not grouped alongside Persians. Kurds are recognized as an separate people and events in Iraq and Syria have not changed that notion. As far as Iranian Azeris go, there is little exposure to them as a people. Most likely this has something to do with geography. Arabs live next door to Persians, Lurs, Kurds and Iranian Arabs but not Azeris.

But I mean this categorization is not any different from say how Iranians look at minorities in Arab states. I think it is normal.

But I simply asked because minority rule is rather rare in the Middle East and especially if it predates Western involvement.

What I understand by Southern Iran here is Khuzestan, Fars Province and Kerman Province. As I wrote to you in that other thread the first two provinces are respectively the 4th and 5th most populous provinces in Iran. So Southern Iran being mostly rural, I am not so sure about. Central Iran (expect for Yazd and Isfahan) yes and probably most of Eastern Iran especially Khorasan.

I simply asked because we never hear about this in any media whether Arab or English. The only thing I knew was that Mashhad and Qom were conservative cities (for obvious reasons) but I know noting about whether your average town/city/village in say Fars Province in Southern Iran is more or less oncservative than its counterpart in Northern or Eastern Iran.

I mean part of the problem with the politics of the region is that neighbors in general know too little about each other. If they knew more about each other they could easily find common grounds and this way misunderstandings, prejudice, wrong information etc. would be combated and lead to more cooperation. That is my guess at least.

Maybe we should create a separate thread here on this section where people of the Middle East could ask each other such questions and users from country x or y could answer them to their best of abilities. Might as well learn something new while you are here. The trolling is getting tiring, lol.

Anyway if Iranian users dislike the content of this thread I can easily delete it as I said earlier. So far it seems that there is no problem but I understand that the topic is sensitive albeit it seems a topic that many do not know about and it also happened fairly long ago.
 
Last edited:
.
You might not be familiar with this but many Iranian migrants in the West are very anti-Islam. They usually act as representatives of Iranians in the West but in reality they are greatly outnumbered by the average, mostly conservative (compared to the average Westerner at least) Iranian diaspora.

Oh, I'm familiar with them...

Its what happens when you have shah loyalists (who are inherently pro-west, nationalistic and less/not religious) in the west. They are inevitably going to be anti-IR, so they will adhere to anti-IR media which is overwhelmingly right wing.

Upshot is, I often see extremely nationalistic and racist Persian supremacists, who bemoan the revolution bringing in the "barbaric Arab religion", and say we should go back 2000 years ago and all convert to Zoroastrianism or something like that.

Its actually funny sometimes to see some "Persian" woman with dyed blonde hair (uncovered, of course, like most of her body), fake tan, several tons of makeup, with an iPhone in one hand and a burger in the other start talking about Persian nationalism. These people are a hundred times less Iranian than the government they hate.

I hear that from many Iranians but at the same time Iranians take pride in their history which was always monarchial. So there is a bit of paradox here IMO.

Just because a system is illegitimate, doesn't mean it cannot be effective. Iran had its good times with the Achaemenids, Sassanids and Safavids, and its bad times with the Qajar, Pahlavi and other dynasties. We will give credit where credit is due.

But I simply asked because minority rule is rather rare in the Middle East and especially if it predates Western involvement.

Iran has a strong sense of national unity, which is why minority rule is a non-issue. When a minority starts oppressing the majority, that is where there is a problem.

I simply asked because we never hear about this in any media whether Arab or English. The only thing I knew was that Mashhad and Qom were conservative cities (for obvious reasons) but I know noting about whether your average town/city/village in say Fars Province in Southern Iran is more or less oncservative than its counterpart in Northern or Eastern Iran.

Conservatism is also affected by wealth, and as you see here, Most of Iran's wealth is in the North. The major exception is Khuzestan, but that is because of oil, which is property of the people and is hence gathered by public companies. So the wealth is distributed across the economy rather than all concentrate in Khuzestan.

900px-Provinces_of_Iran_by_GDP_per_capita.svg.png


Maybe we should create a separate thread here on this section where people of the Middle East could ask each other such questions and users from country x or y could answer them to their best of abilities. Might as well learn something new while you are here. The trolling is getting tiring, lol.

Nah... might as well keep it going here. New threads attract new fights.
 
.
Oh, I'm familiar with them...

Its what happens when you have shah loyalists (who are inherently pro-west, nationalistic and less/not religious) in the west. They are inevitably going to be anti-IR, so they will adhere to anti-IR media which is overwhelmingly right wing.

Upshot is, I often see extremely nationalistic and racist Persian supremacists, who bemoan the revolution bringing in the "barbaric Arab religion", and say we should go back 2000 years ago and all convert to Zoroastrianism or something like that.

Its actually funny sometimes to see some "Persian" woman with dyed blonde hair (uncovered, of course, like most of her body), fake tan, several tons of makeup, with an iPhone in one hand and a burger in the other start talking about Persian nationalism. These people are a hundred times less Iranian than the government they hate.



Just because a system is illegitimate, doesn't mean it cannot be effective. Iran had its good times with the Achaemenids, Sassanids and Safavids, and its bad times with the Qajar, Pahlavi and other dynasties. We will give credit where credit is due.


Iran has a strong sense of national unity, which is why minority rule is a non-issue. When a minority starts oppressing the majority, that is where there is a problem.



Conservatism is also affected by wealth, and as you see here, Most of Iran's wealth is in the North. The major exception is Khuzestan, but that is because of oil, which is property of the people and is hence gathered by public companies. So the wealth is distributed across the economy rather than all concentrate in Khuzestan.

900px-Provinces_of_Iran_by_GDP_per_capita.svg.png




Nah... might as well keep it going here. New threads attract new fights.

My impression was always that those diaspora Iranians where a very loud group of people but a minority overall.

You are spot on about such people. We have similar minorities who voice absurd views that are contradictory and often very confusing as well.

I understand your point but the way I look at forms of government is more from a political/social/historical viewpoint and I am more interested in the characteristics and abilities of the leader rather than the system that they claim to rule by.

How come is Bushehr province (is that not the province shown just south of Khuzestan) one of the richest provinces of Iran? Is it due to oil and gas? Gas, right?

@Serpentine where you not originally from Bushehr? Could you tell me more about Southern Iran and how this region of Iran differs from say Northern Iran (Tehran) and Eastern Iran? Maybe you have seen some of my questions in this thread?
 
.
characteristics and abilities of the leader rather than the system that they claim to rule by.
It is true that often this is the most important aspect. My point about illegitimacy was that no-one has a "right" to be a king. Reza Shah gained power through a military coup. Not exactly the people's mandate.

Gas, right?

Exactly. Bushehr is where the processing for the South Pars Gas Field is located and is being built, which is the largest natural gas field in the world.

The population is also small compared to the rest of Iran at around 1 million (note, the diagram I posted was GDP Per Capita).

Bushehr is home to the Middle East's only operating nuclear reactor.

Bushehr province also includes Kharg Island and the island's oil terminal, which handles 98% of Iran's crude oil as of 2012.

Though once again, this is the oil and gas sector, which is publicly owned. So the wealth is distributed throughout the country, instead of making Bushehr residents super rich.
 
.
+100 M Europeans died in WW1 and 2 but nowdays they are living with high standars in Europe.

The number about Iranian famine is made by Ahmadinutjobs dyring Ahmadunejad. The correct number is 2 million.

If we assume you are right, 2 million is still a way too big number, is it not? 2 million too many.

It is true that often this is the most important aspect. My point about illegitimacy was that no-one has a "right" to be a king. Reza Shah gained power through a military coup. Not exactly the people's mandate.



Exactly. Bushehr is where the processing for the South Pars Gas Field is located and is being built, which is the largest natural gas field in the world.

The population is also small compared to the rest of Iran at around 1 million (note, the diagram I posted was GDP Per Capita).

Bushehr is home to the Middle East's only operating nuclear reactor.

Bushehr province also includes Kharg Island and the island's oil terminal, which handles 98% of Iran's crude oil as of 2012.

Though once again, this is the oil and gas sector, which is publicly owned. So the wealth is distributed throughout the country, instead of making Bushehr residents super rich.

You are right about that. However kingship is not strictly against Islam or Abrahamic tradition. From a moral and more modern viewpoint there is controversy involved but IMO it really depends on the qualities of the ruler and his personal characteristics. I see a good king/monarch as the face of the nation and as an unifying figure. I for once would like to see a constitutional monarchy in KSA (if the monarchy would be kept or if a new dynasty emerged, doubtful in the modern-era or even if old ones returned as doubtful) preferably obviously.

My point was merely that if you take pride in certain dynasties, rulers and periods in history where monarchs ruled, you cannot categorically deem such a system ineffective or amoral because that was the norm back then and you are looking at it from a more modern viewpoint.

Most rulers in the past in the Middle East (all Muslim ones) all claimed/some were indeed guardians of tradition and religion.

So you built a nuclear power plant just across KSA deliberately so once an incident occurs and the wind is right, we will be welcomed by nuclear waste?:rofl:



Not only that you guys seem to have earthquakes in the area!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Bushehr_earthquake

Thank God that Hijaz is on the other side of the Peninsula, lol.

Anyway a nuclear power plant is being built currently in the UAE (almost 66,66% completed) and will be fully operation soon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barakah_nuclear_power_plant

Old photo:



 
.
+100 M Europeans got killed in WW1 and WW2 but nowdays they are living with semi high standars in Europe.

The number of Iranians casualties in famine during 1917-1919 is made by Ahmadinutjobs during Ahmadinejad's presidency. The correct number tends to be 2 million. Meanwhile 95% of Iranians do not know anything about this 2 years famine at all. Irony.
If we assume you are right, 2 million is still a way too big number, is it not? 2 million too many.



You are right about that. However kingship is not strictly against Islam or Abrahamic tradition. From a moral and more modern viewpoint there is controversy involved but IMO it really depends on the qualities of the ruler and his personal characteristics. I see a good king/monarch as the face of the nation and as an unifying figure. I for once would like to see a constitutional monarchy in KSA (if the monarchy would be kept or if a new dynasty emerged, doubtful in the modern-era or even if old ones returned as doubtful) preferably obviously.

My point was merely that if you take pride in certain dynasties, rulers and periods in history where monarchs ruled, you cannot categorically deem such a system ineffective or amoral because that was the norm back then and you are looking at it from a more modern viewpoint.

Most rulers in the past in the Middle East (all Muslim ones) all claimed/some were indeed guardians of tradition and religion.

So you built a nuclear power plant just across KSA deliberately so once an incident occurs and the wind is right, we will be welcomed by nuclear waste?:rofl:



Not only that you guys seem to have earthquakes in the area!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Bushehr_earthquake

Thank God that Hijaz is on the other side of the Peninsula, lol.

Anyway a nuclear power plant is being built currently in the UAE (almost 66,66% completed) and will be fully operation soon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barakah_nuclear_power_plant

Old photo:



Is it very high compared to 100 Million died Europeans?

Btw who is the miss in ur avatar?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Pictures of Iran during Shah era in 1950's:

https://www.google.nl/search?q=iran+1950s+photos&client=ms-android-htc-rev&prmd=inv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjZncihhqfRAhVDuhoKHeE6C0wQ_AUIBygB&biw=360&bih=511&dpr=3

Iran was indeed very modern. God damn these 38 years old sanctions.
 
.
Back
Top Bottom