The Great Game Changer: Belt and Road Intiative (BRI; OBOR)

[xunzi]

China+Russia together would be invincible. In other words, impossible to defeat. However it is not necessary Russia will get us to the next level. Time is the only thing we need right now that would get us to the next level, similar to Soviet Union getting massive tech from the Nazi.

 

[Economic superpower]

China+Russia together would be invincible. In other words, impossible to defeat. However it is not necessary Russia will get us to the next level. Time is the only thing we need right now that would get us to the next level, similar to Soviet Union getting massive tech from the Nazi.

China can catch up to Russia militarily but China will never have the abundant natural resources Russia has nor the land area of Russia.

China is vulnerable being so dependent on natural resource imports.

Russia = great power.
China = great power.
Russia + China = superpower.

For anyone that followed Dragonball Z, the analogy is USA is pure evil Majin Buu, China is Goku, Russia is Vegeta. Goku and Vegeta by themselves are too weak to fight Majin Buu, but Goku and Vegeta combined can take on Majin Buu.

 

[cnleio]

Have the same interests in the region.

 

[Shotgunner51]

Russia lacks economic power, population size, consumer market size, etc.
China lacks military power, natural resources, etc.

If you look at economic activities (e.g. GDP), despite being interrupted by trade barriers (sanctions), Russia is still quite vibrant and maintains a middle-income nation. Manufacturing industry plays a major role (check sector composition) as well as exports, especially in hi-tech like weaponry, adding lucrative value to the economy. Most of all, Russia has a rich "balance sheet" that beats most of the world, say reserves in Forex, land, forest, minerals & energy.

The population isn't too small, still larger than the two self-restrained hidden-superpowers, aka Japan & Germany. More importantly it's about human capital (measured in HDI, poverty, literacy, nutrition, etc), for Russia it's a high-performance asset, not liability.

 

[Economic superpower]

If you look at economic activities (e.g. GDP), despite being interrupted by trade barriers (sanctions), Russia is still quite vibrant and maintains a middle-income nation. Manufacturing industry plays a major role (check sector composition) as well as exports, especially in hi-tech like weaponry, adding lucrative value to the economy. Most of all, Russia has a rich "balance sheet" that beats most of the world, say reserves in Forex, land, forest, minerals & energy.

The population isn't too small, still larger than the two self-restrained hidden-superpowers, aka Japan & Germany. More importantly it's about human capital (measured in HDI, poverty, literacy, nutrition, etc), for Russia it's a high-performance asset, not liability.

Russia cannot hang with the USA in a superpower battle. Everything Russia has, USA has in greater scale.

Russia + China is a superpower because China can add scale to Russian power.

 

[TaiShang]

Russia cannot hang with the USA in a superpower battle. Everything Russia has, USA has in greater scale.

Russia + China is a superpower because China can add scale to Russian power.

I guess Russia is doing pretty well in a full-spectrum proxy war with the US. I would say, in the final analysis, if we define superpower in terms of destructive capability, Russia is on par with the US.

That's what really matters.

China is a fast rising great power; all it needs is time. A 20+ trillion USD economy and a sizable military industrial complex will be enough to put China on par with the US within a decade.

If being superpower is defined as the ability to make international rules, then, both China and Russia occupy the highest seats available to nations.

I agree, on the other hand that, China-Russia Eurasian duo is definitely an equal force against the Atlantic Pact.

 

[Shotgunner51]

Russia cannot hang with the USA in a superpower battle. Everything Russia has, USA has in greater scale.

Russia + China is a superpower because China can add scale to Russian power.

The point is that even without China or anyone, just by itself Russia is already a status-quo superpower that can confront US. Debt-driven consumption GDP in many services (e.g. movies, casinos, spa, beauty salons, ...), even in some light manufacturing (e.g. furniture, fashion, jewelry ...) with shallow supply chain, play insignificant role in war time confrontation. Russia has good human capital, powerful base of heavy industries, vast reserves of strategic materials, battle-hardened military, geopolitical influence, these make Russia the only other superpower in the world.

But yes bro, China is a value-adding strategic partner for Russia in her global confrontation with US, no doubt on that.

if we define superpower in terms of destructive capability, Russia is on par with the US.

Agree to that bro.

Other than Russia, the only two nations that can be superpower on par with US/Russia are Japan, if they decides to re-militarize & re-build "Greater East Asia Co-prosperity Sphere" ("大東亜共栄圏 だいとうあきょうえいけん"), and Germany, if they are successful with changing EU into "Forth Reich" ("Viertes Reich").

China's mission is to revive cultural & economic prosperity of the Middle Kingdom as well as that of partnering nations, with a modest scale of peace enforcement branch just suffice to defend national interests, home & abroad.

 

[haviZsultan]

China can catch up to Russia militarily but China will never have the abundant natural resources Russia has nor the land area of Russia.

China is vulnerable being so dependent on natural resource imports.

Russia = great power.
China = great power.
Russia + China = superpower.

For anyone that followed Dragonball Z, the analogy is USA is pure evil Majin Buu, China is Goku, Russia is Vegeta. Goku and Vegeta by themselves are too weak to fight Majin Buu, but Goku and Vegeta combined can take on Majin Buu.

I wish you luck. An Asian power removing the world bully-win win situation for Pakistan.

 

[A2Z]

Individually, Russia and China are not a superpower. Russia has things China wants, China has things Russia wants. Russia and China combined will be a superpower combination as they would have all the necessary things to qualify as a superpower such as:

Large land area.
Large population.
Large workforce.
Abundant natural resources:
- energy
- metals
- agriculture
Large standing army.
Large nuclear arsenal.
Advanced conventional military weaponary:
- fighters jets
- strategic bombers
- strategic air transport
- attack helicopters
- transport helicopters
- destroyers
- frigates
- conventional submarines
- nuclear attack submarines
- aircraft carrier
- LPD
Advanced space program:
- launch facilities
- satellites
- manned
- space station
Satellite navigation system:
- GLONASS
- Beidou
Large and advanced missile arsenal
- ICBM
- IRBM
- MRBM
- SRBM
- land-launched cruise missiles
- air-launched cruise missiles
- ship-launched cruise missiles
- submarine-launched cruise missiles
Advanced nuclear ballistic submarines.
Advanced strategic bombers.
Advanced air and missile defences.
Advanced intelligence and counter intelligence.
Large economy.
Large trading nation.
Large investor.
Large savings pool.
Large consumer market.
Large industrial/manufacturing base.
Large service sector.
Large foreign exchange reserves.
Large gold reserves.
Large creditor nation.
Large stock market.
Large bond market.
Large government budget revenue.
Large government budget.
Large automobile producer.
Large shipbuilder.
Advanced technical knowledge on everything.
Advanced technologies in various industries:
- transportation
- energy
- medical
- electronics
- IT
Fastest supercomputer.
Highly educated population.
Large number of scientists.
Large number of engineers.
Large R&D budget.
Large number of patents owned.
Large military spending.
Large weapons exporter.
Ability to build large scale infrastructure rapidly.
Dominant in olympic sports.

No doubt that China and Russia can pose a threat to USA's dominance in the world but complete dominance would never be possible.

Russia has is very safe geographically as it is almost impossible to invade or attack Russia from the north and history has proved that Russian winter can be more dangerous then its armed forces. Russians have the natural resources needed, they have the technology needed, their population is almost enough but they at the moment lack the economy needed.

China on the other hand has the economy needed, they have a very large work force, they are getting the technology gradually but they lack on the natural resources. China has the largest military and they have a powerful friend Russia. But natural resources is a point that can limit China as they need oil more than any country on earth and middle east is the biggest source but USA holds middle eastern oil. Everyone knows where Iraqi and Syrian oil is going, Saudis wont give a single drop to someone USA disapproves, Kuwaitis know who saved their @$$ when Saddam invaded and oil from Iran can be stopped by mighty US Navy. So until PLAN is powerful enough to take on US Navy you can't count on Iranian oil.

Moreover USA's main strength other than its economy and military is its geographical location. Every country that is close to USA is either an ally or so weak that USA can crush them when ever they want. This is something that China nor Russia has. China has very powerful neighbors with whom China has disputes and they are very close to USA. Japan and India are the spare head in this case. Though they both might not be able to tackle China single handedly but if both of them have a common enemy and they can get help from nations like Taiwan, Philippines and Vietnam then things would become very difficult for China. Russia on the other hand has its own problems with EU.

So in the end to conclude, China and Russia are great powers but at the moment they aren't in USA's league. USA can bring a war on Russian or Chinese soil when ever it wants and that's where problems for both would start. However if China and Russia in future can take a conflict to American soil then i would say whatever the result of that war would be one thing is for sure USA would collapse like a house of cards. From there whether USA wins or losses one thing is for sure it will lose its superpower status.

 

[Economic superpower]

The point is that even without China or anyone, just by itself Russia is already a status-quo superpower that can confront US. Debt-driven consumption GDP in many services (e.g. movies, casinos, spa, beauty salons, ...), even in some light manufacturing (e.g. furniture, fashion, jewelry ...) with shallow supply chain, play insignificant role in war time confrontation. Russia has good human capital, powerful base of heavy industries, vast reserves of strategic materials, battle-hardened military, geopolitical influence, these make Russia the only other superpower in the world.

But yes bro, China is a value-adding strategic partner for Russia in her global confrontation with US, no doubt on that.




Agree to that bro.

Other than Russia, the only two nations that can be superpower on par with US/Russia are Japan, if they decides to re-militarize & re-build "Greater East Asia Co-prosperity Sphere" ("大东亚共荣圈"), and Germany, if they are successful with changing EU into "Forth Reich" ("Viertes Reich").

China's mission is to revive cultural & economic prosperity of the Middle Kingdom as well as partnering nations, with a modest peace enforcement branch just suffice to defend national interests, home & abroad.

Russia doesn't have a proper economy. It has to rely on energy prices for growth, that's not an economy. US drove down oil prices in the 1980's with Saudi help to bankrupt the Soviet Union. Russia needs Chinese economic power.

Japan and Germany are irrelevant because they don't have scale. To be a superpower, you need scale.

The only country that can challenge the US is China because of China's scale.

If Chinese leaders have the view of having a modest military just enough to defend national interests, then this will be the century of India.

India also have scale like China and if they get it together, China won't have much room to manoeuvre and India will eventually surpass China.

China must strive for absolute maximum power. The notion the world will be peaceful is very naive. Humans by nature are thirsty for power and want to dominate. You want to be the one dominating instead of the one being dominated.

China is surrounded by hostile powers and anything but strength will spell disaster for China.

China is up against US, Japan, India, Vietnam, Philppines, Australia.

 

[oproh]

Judging by the fact that obama cries regularly about Russia and China, I can say that america is hostile to Russia and China. America is addicted to power and they want to be a solo leader to the world. Kudos to countries like China and Russia for standing up to the american bully.

 

[Shotgunner51]

Russia doesn't have a proper economy. It has to rely on energy prices for growth, that's not an economy. US drove down oil prices in the 1980's with Saudi help to bankrupt the Soviet Union. Russia needs Chinese economic power.

Japan and Germany are irrelevant because they don't have scale. To be a superpower, you need scale.

The only country that can challenge the US is China because of China's scale.

If Chinese leaders have the view of having a modest military just enough to defend national interests, then this will be the century of India.

India also have scale like China and if they get it together, China won't have much room to manoeuvre and India will eventually surpass China.

China must strive for absolute maximum power. The notion the world will be peaceful is very naive. Humans by nature are thirsty for power and want to dominate. You want to be the one dominating instead of the one being dominated.

China is surrounded by hostile powers and anything but strength will spell disaster for China.

China is up against US, Japan, India, Vietnam, Philppines, Australia.

On Russia:

• She does have a sizable base of hi-tech or heavy industries, weaponry in particular, that makes a huge difference from movie or casino GDP when it comes to war time.
• In war time, her natural reserves like oil become hard currencies, and she has loads of it.
• The scale of Russian human capital is also big enough, note excessive scale of population made up of uneducated or malnourished is a liability not an positive asset.
• Russia got all these elements, and a geopolitical ambition, that makes her the only other superpower in the world.

P.S.: Yes scale is important, that of human capital, industrialization, tech and strategic reserves, but not scale of population. Check small population states like UK after industrial revolution, Japan after Meiji era and WWII Nazi Germany. Contemporary Japan & Germany are the only two "hidden" superpowers, let's not mistake their low profile for incapability. Other nations are too small or plainly irrelevant.​

On China:

• She is not challenging US in order to become one of the superpowers, or the superpower, there is no such motive in the first place. Moreover there is no such need, check US demographics, socio-economics, politico-economics, on where are they heading, you know what I mean brother.
• China shall continue to industrialize targeting to reach par with East Asia or Germany, build strategic reserves, build global assets and promote RMB in international financial systems, these are the objectives.
  
• You were right, in presence of those blood-thirsty war-profiteers, the world can hardly be a peaceful place, that's why China has to maintain a peace enforcement branch to secure all frontiers of national interests at home or abroad, real or cyber, earth or space. Though China will only maintain a modest scale (e.g. ~1.2% of peace time GDP) of such a branch, since war is not an objective for her, it will always be last option to achieve or re-establish peace.
• China will be a value-adding strategic partner for Russia in her superpower confrontation with US.

 

[General Observer]

What Do Westerners Think Of China? |

Bro, those people were all interviewed in what looks like Australia or New Zealand. You gotta look for the ignorant American interviewees, they say some things that gives you a new perspective for the stupidity in this world ...

 

[Jlaw]

Russia lacks economic power, population size, consumer market size, etc.
China lacks military power, natural resources, etc.

dude, look around the world. Having a high GDP per capita does not make one a superpower. If that is the case, Luxemburgh is a superpower

I know it's hard to believe, but a robber with a gun is more powerful than a rich man without one.

 

[Zsari]

While it is necessarily to rely on Russia to provide a counter balance to western dominance, China will ultimately have to depend on itself to become a superpower. When and if Chinese economy and following that the Chinese national strength exceed that of the US, do expect Russia to turn against China as that's how the balance of power works.