The Future of Kashmir? "Seven" Possible Solutions!

[roopesh]

India should announce a plan to resolve.

No separate movements, no terror attacks, no cross border terrors for a period of 10 years will trigger a bill to pass in the parliment regaring conducting public openion in kashmir valley. Any violation during this time will reset this period.
After 8 years of peaceful completing govt of india calls for citizens to apply of voting rights in kashmir. Each individual shall submit records to get the eligibility.
After the elections Indian partiment decide to take the necessary actions according to people wish. if in any case Independent kashmir is formed its finance, military, external affairs will be in complete control of India for about 10 years. Any peace violation will result in indian president rule for a mininum of 5 years.

Note to ppl...: US or UN or pakistan can tell anything..ppl can quote nehru...who ever they want. The fact is Indian parliment is highest authorized body in the country. 66% majority is required to pass a resolution regarding kashmir. If this is not approved presnt status would be maintained.

 

[blain2]

I don't understand why Pakistan should continue to press the issue at all. Pakistan has its share of kashmir, and perhaps it should focus on developing it rather than continuing to spend all its energies on destabilizing India and supporting Islamic fundamentalism.

It has failed to provide even the most basic freedoms to its portion of Kashmir, unlike India, where separatist leaders are not only tolerated, but given state protection.

At the very heart of kashmiri separatism lies the idea that the people of one particular religion do not wish to coexist with the people of another. I don't see why such racist, xenophobic and religious thinking should be given more respect than it deserves.

Flint,

Pakistani Kashmir, despite what you read in your media, is as the rest of Pakistan. The population dynamics of the Pakistani Kashmir are also much different than the Indian side. We have a considerable punjabi population over there. The infrastructure and governance is not the best, but it is like the rest of the country. I have never heard a Pakistani Kashmiri say that GoP has never done anything for them. The government could always do more, however there is no state repression, there is no exclusiveness or special treatment either. You go to Pakistani Kashmir and it does not even feel like its Kashmir. It feels the same as any of the other Northern areas of Pakistan.

Point being that the challenges are totally different between Pakistani Kashmir and what is going on in Indian Kashmir. They are not of the same fundamental type that the folks in Indian Kashmir are facing. For Kashmiris under the Indian rule, there is a disconnect at a national level from the rest of India.

At the very heart of kashmiri separatism lies the idea that the people of one particular religion do not wish to coexist with the people of another. I don't see why such racist, xenophobic and religious thinking should be given more respect than it deserves.

That is because you have never been on the receiving end. You do not know what it feels like to have aspirations that are different from those of the rest of India. India still has not come to full terms with the integration of the low cast Hindus and Muslims into the Indian society. Kashmiris feel that they they are a nation different from the rest of India. They were promised something under the UN and they want to press on with the promise made. Now you cannot come and make a point of why they cannot co-exist with the rest of India. Your leadership and ours agreed to that formula and now for the past 60+ years, the Kashmiris have been trying to exercise upon that right.

 

[blain2]

India should announce a plan to resolve.

No separate movements, no terror attacks, no cross border terrors for a period of 10 years will trigger a bill to pass in the parliment regaring conducting public openion in kashmir valley. Any violation during this time will reset this period.
After 8 years of peaceful completing govt of india calls for citizens to apply of voting rights in kashmir. Each individual shall submit records to get the eligibility.
After the elections Indian partiment decide to take the necessary actions according to people wish. if in any case Independent kashmir is formed its finance, military, external affairs will be in complete control of India for about 10 years. Any peace violation will result in indian president rule for a mininum of 5 years.

Note to ppl...: US or UN or pakistan can tell anything..ppl can quote nehru...who ever they want. The fact is Indian parliment is highest authorized body in the country. 66% majority is required to pass a resolution regarding kashmir. If this is not approved presnt status would be maintained.

Good plan, albeit with many loopholes. Just for the fun of it, I would say one of the basic clauses to be added would be "no relocation of Indian citizens into IoK". Also what do you mean by "govt of india calls for citizens to apply of voting rights in kashmir. Each individual shall submit records to get the eligibility."? The voting should only be limited to those who live in Kashmir and not for anyone else from anywhere in India to apply for the voting right.

 

[roopesh]

Good plan, albeit with many loopholes. Just for the fun of it, I would say one of the basic clauses to be added would be "no relocation of Indian citizens into IoK". Also what do you mean by "govt of india calls for citizens to apply of voting rights in kashmir. Each individual shall submit records to get the eligibility."? The voting should only be limited to those who live in Kashmir and not for anyone else from anywhere in India to apply for the voting right.

There are thousands of Hindu Pandits moved out of Kashmir due to violations. India should account them. Also illegal immgrants in kashmir valley cant be given the voting rights. Also criminals and terrors cant be given voting rights.

 

[Flintlock]

^^^^
Mr. Flintlock, Sir!

I hear all your arguments as to why the Kashmiri's are better off as Indian citizens. But why not trust them to agree with you? Are you afraid to let them vote in a plebiscite? If your arguments are so persuasive, then THEY will be persuaded, RIGHT? What is India afraid of? If it agreed to a plebiscite, it would WIN, right? No problem. Kashmir issue over and done!!

PS, TS is going to sleep now!!

Yes, except that decades of violence and war-zone like conditions have alienated Kashmiris from the state - which is precisely what terrorists seek to achieve.
The victims of terrorism, after a certain stage, hold the state responsible rather than the terrorists. This is why terrorism is such a useful tool to subvert the administration and bring instability. The lack of a "face" to identify as the enemy, eventually forces the public into making an enemy out of the state.

Not to mention that religion plays a huge role in alienating the people. The weekly sermons at the Jama Mosque in Srinagar should be proof enough of the kind of radicalism and xenophobia that is being preached there.
Most of the largest, violent and frenzied street protests occur after Friday prayers at the Srinagar Mosque. One doesn't need to be a genius to figure out why.

Of course, Nehru's mistake of promising a plebiscite is also coming back to haunt India, but the conditions under which the decision was taken were quite different from those today. the Secretary General Kofi Annan went as far as to say that UN Resolutions are obsolete and can no longer be used to decide the outcome.

 

[afriend]

Well holding the plebscite is not relevant now as indicated in my post 105 becuase.

1. The definition of kashmir here in india and what is percieved by pakistan have long changed, I belive you dont include northern areas as a part of kashmir and you have given a part of kashmir to china. So the status quo as it was in 1947 have changed.

2. Demography of azad kashmir have changed from what was it in 1947 and it is almost as good as integreated with pakistan.

3. India belives kashmiri seperatism is fueled by forigen militants there by forcing indian troops to remain in there to check in the security and to prevent any anti nationalists from comming inside. This has lead to unfortunately curtailing the freedom of movement in kashmir. This have obviously not given any positive image for indian army and to so called "FREE AND FAIR" plebiscite wouldnt serve its purpouse as the results would have been influenced by the repeated interference of the forgien elemnts. And my friend above echos that sentiments perfectly..!!!!

The victims of terrorism, after a certain stage, hold the state responsible rather than the terrorists. This is why terrorism is such a useful tool to subvert the administration and bring instability. The lack of a "face" to identify as the enemy, eventually forces the public into making an enemy out of the state.

However things are changing for good i guess as many of the kashmiri seperatists have laid down their arms since 1995 and recently kashmiri seperatists calls for boycott of elections was clearly ingnored by kashmiris. Lets give peace a chance, so that indian army can withdraw their troops from kashmir and they can lead a life peacefully. Kashmir enjoys special status in indian constitution, have its own constituion, have the full support of the center in the form of subsidised commodities and infrastructe funding, and indian citizens are not defacto citizens of kashmir, their land belongs to them alone...but only thing that is lacking is peace, if the militants stop comming in trying to snatch away kashmir, kashmir would return to what it was before a "paradise on earth". Then india can and would be confident about conducting a plebescite in a peaceful envionrment, as people who have tasted and enjoyed peace would never want to break away, and this is exactly what external forces dont want to happen in kashmir.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Well, I give up debating the Indian posters about a plebiscite. Now i see why the Pakistanis are so frustrated with India's position. So, IMHO, the Indian Kashmiri's who would like to be merged into Pakistan should mount a massive PEACEFUL protest movement with "demands" such as:

1) Non-binding plebiscite to see where opinions stand with the current residents;
2) Freedom of movement to/from Pakistani Kashmir;
3) Economic and cultural integration between Indian and Pakistani Kashmir groups allowed and supported (i.e joint businesses, school attendance, cultural groups, etc.).
4) Whatever else they think would begin the informal integration of Kashmir.

 

[Omar1984]

There are thousands of Hindu Pandits moved out of Kashmir due to violations. India should account them. Also illegal immgrants in kashmir valley cant be given the voting rights. Also criminals and terrors cant be given voting rights.

For you Indians, anyone who asks for independence is a terrorist.

 

[Omar1984]

not the Balochis

You indians seem to be really obsessed about balochis, if you want to bring up balochis every other post make another thread about balochis.

This thread is about Kashmir, a disputed territory.

We can also bring up the rights of people of Assam, Khalistan, Tamils, etc..

Kashmir is not an integral part of India like Assam and Indian Punjab are integral parts of India or Balochistan and Sindh are integral parts of Pakistan.

KASHMIR IS A DISPUTED TERITORY BETWEEN PAKISTAN AND INDIA FOR 61 YEARS NOW, THE LINE OF CONTROL IS NOT AN INTERNATIONAL BOUNDARY.

No referendum have been held in Kashmir on 1947, unlike the 4 provinces of Pakistan where referndum have been held in 1947, therefore theres a dispute and a referendum needs to be held and we must respect the wishes of the Kashmiri people.

 

[afriend]

For you Indians, anyone who asks for independence is a terrorist.

Well i dont agree with you Omar. If pakistan raise a question then that doesnt mean that the problem is disputed. If india says balochistan is an indian territory due you have any logic in that. No. So lets talk sensibliy, and to be frank, i never knew that there were so many troubles going on in pakistan before i joined this forum. Like nwfp,fata,balochistan.. infact it have helped to get my perspective right. Even about kashmir i didnt know much of the background. But now i belive i know somehting. So lets keep our discussion healthy..!!!

 

[ejaz007]

Well, I give up debating the Indian posters about a plebiscite. Now i see why the Pakistanis are so frustrated with India's position. So, IMHO, the Indian Kashmiri's who would like to be merged into Pakistan should mount a massive PEACEFUL protest movement with "demands" such as:

1) Non-binding plebiscite to see where opinions stand with the current residents;
2) Freedom of movement to/from Pakistani Kashmir;
3) Economic and cultural integration between Indian and Pakistani Kashmir groups allowed and supported (i.e joint businesses, school attendance, cultural groups, etc.).
4) Whatever else they think would begin the informal integration of Kashmir.

You have given up in a day, should appreciate Pakistan's passionce while dealing with India for 60 years.

As far as Kashmir is concerned the Indians have been fed a single tune in their mind and they all are dancing on it as faithfully as they can.

Unfortunately as a result of Indian attitude and use of brute force the chances of a massive peacefull protest are slim, contrary however might happen.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

That's always been India's position. I don't see what's especially honest about my post - I'm just being blunt that's all.

That is categorically false.

You have direct quotes from India's highest leadership affirming the rights of Kashmiris to determine their status through a referendum, as a means of resolving the dispute.

You have India's agreement on the multiple UNSC resolutions that stated a referendum should be used to resolve the dispute.

How you can utter such a statement in the face of all of this evidence is beyond me.

India doesn't think that an independent Kashmir valley is in the best interests of anyone. Infact, it would be detrimental in the long term.

Not only that - India's unity and integrity is non-negotiable in any case.

The UN resolutions and the Instrument of partition that called for a plebiscite in the event of a disputed accession do not allow for independence. India agreed to both of those.

Independence, over the entire area or a smaller part of Kashmir, is merely an option floated to try and bridge the gaps so that nether country sees herself as losing too much or the other gaining too much.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Well i dont agree with you Omar. If pakistan raise a question then that doesnt mean that the problem is disputed.

If india says balochistan is an indian territory due you have any logic in that. No. So lets talk sensibliy, and to be frank, i never knew that there were so many troubles going on in pakistan before i joined this forum. Like nwfp,fata,balochistan.. infact it have helped to get my perspective right. Even about kashmir i didnt know much of the background. But now i belive i know somehting. So lets keep our discussion healthy..!!!

Again, this is patently false.

India and Pakistan agreed to the rules of partition that in the event of a disputed accession a plebiscite woudl take place. The plebiscite condition was reiterated by Mountbatten in the case of Kashmir before he agreed to accept the accession of the Mharajah.

India then reiterated her support for the plebiscite when she supported completely the UNSC resolutions, multiple times, and also through them supported the disputed status of Kashmir.

There is no comparison here between Kashmir (a territorial dispute between two nations) and Balochistan, FATA or Assam or whatever. Completely different situations.

 

[Contrarian]

Pakistan has still given away part of Kashmir to China and has changed a part of its to FATA. There are discrepencies about what is percieved to be Kashmir.

 

[roopesh]

Pakistan has still given away part of Kashmir to China and has changed a part of its to FATA. There are discrepencies about what is percieved to be Kashmir.

OK guys..let me ask a question,.

What is pakistan action to resolve kashmir? What are they really doing? or what would be expected next??