The Future of Kashmir? "Seven" Possible Solutions!

[karan.1970]

In my view, the future of Kashmir for a foreseeable future is exactly what its present is.

There is a small percentage of people who are screaming for separation from India hoping for a more prominant role/position in politics than what they can ever dream of while J&K stays as one of the states of India

Pakistan in large part, as a part of its over all direction of increasing control over the strategic Kashmir region is supporting the above in expectation that it would have a significantly higher influence in an independent Kashmir than India. This has an added high of trying and avenge 1971

India on its part is not interested in any discussion that changes ground realities in terms of territorial ownership. India while maintaing the claim on Azad(so called) Kashmir and GB areas, has offered to accept the LoC as IB which has not yet found any takers in Pakistan.

Pakistan based Non State actor groups continue to engage Indian armed forces in a guerilla war of attrition. Lately it seems that IA is gaining an upper hand but that is a fluid situation


All this while the general population of Kashmir who like any other comman man of India or Pakistan, is most interested in living a peaceful troublefree and economically stable life (whether in India, in Pakistan or in an independent country) is getting crushed between the rivaly of the 2 nations. He is targetted sometimes by the Pakistan based terrorists and sometimes by IA (accidently or by some rotten apples in the Army).

In reality neither India nor Pakistan is anyway near exhaustion in this war of attrition, except that most Indians today hope that the claims of Pakistan about India doing a tit-for-tat in NWFP and Balochistan are really true and India is paying Pakistan back in the same coin.

So unless an event of immense magnitude changes this stalemate or there comes a bigger crisis where the stalemate on Kashmir is broken by one of the sides as a quid pro quo to a concession on the said crisis, the Future of Kashmir does not seem any different than present. Except in a few years there will be a different set of people taking this arguement forward on this forum

 

[RollingStones]

In my view, the future of Kashmir for a foreseeable future is exactly what its present is.

There is a small percentage of people who are screaming for separation from India hoping for a more prominant role/position in politics than what they can ever dream of while J&K stays as one of the states of India

Pakistan in large part, as a part of its over all direction of increasing control over the strategic Kashmir region is supporting the above in expectation that it would have a significantly higher influence in an independent Kashmir than India. This has an added high of trying and avenge 1971

India on its part is not interested in any discussion that changes ground realities in terms of territorial ownership. India while maintaing the claim on Azad(so called) Kashmir and GB areas, has offered to accept the LoC as IB which has not yet found any takers in Pakistan.

Pakistan based Non State actor groups continue to engage Indian armed forces in a guerilla war of attrition. Lately it seems that IA is gaining an upper hand but that is a fluid situation


All this while the general population of Kashmir who like any other comman man of India or Pakistan, is most interested in living a peaceful troublefree and economically stable life (whether in India, in Pakistan or in an independent country) is getting crushed between the rivaly of the 2 nations. He is targetted sometimes by the Pakistan based terrorists and sometimes by IA (accidently or by some rotten apples in the Army).

In reality neither India nor Pakistan is anyway near exhaustion in this war of attrition, except that most Indians today hope that the claims of Pakistan about India doing a tit-for-tat in NWFP and Balochistan are really true and India is paying Pakistan back in the same coin.

So unless an event of immense magnitude changes this stalemate or there comes a bigger crisis where the stalemate on Kashmir is broken by one of the sides as a quid pro quo to a concession on the said crisis, the Future of Kashmir does not seem any different than present. Except in a few years there will be a different set of people taking this arguement forward on this forum

But that doesnt mean India cant improve things in Kashmir. One of the things the Indian police in Kashmir need to be educated on is how to make arrests. The police in India still doesnt get it that making an arrest means cuffing that person and preventing that person from carrying out activities against the law. It does not involve beating that person or treating them unfairly or disrespectfully. After seeing some of the pictures in Indian Kashmir, I have to say that police there need a course on how to cuff, how to get a prisoner into a vehicle and remove them from the scene as quickly as possible. You could perhaps use a taser or something to immobilize a person if he or she resists arrest. How can you beat that person? That's disrespectful and violates the fundamental rights of that person.

 

[karan.1970]

^^ Absolutely valid point. Despite what most on this forum would like to believe, there has been improvements. There never has been such public exposures of the occasional misdeeds of sec forces as you see now. And your point on improvement in police procedures is so true. And not only in Kashmir but whole of India...

 

[Nihat]

If Pak ever desires any sort of peace in the valley and when it gets tired of playing little proxy games, I believe they will approach India on their own and accept LoC as IB.

There is incredible futility in engaging Pak in meaningful dialouge right now. India just ought to concentrate on Internal security of J&K and rapid development of state economy and Infrastructure.

Negotiation can bear meaningful result only from a position of streangth and India is in one right now with Terrorism at an ll time low, US being a so called "strategic ally" of India and a far away stance from Cold war days, Russia as always backing India and China mantaining a stance of Non-Interference.

In has a greater voice and power at UN forums too and is not going to be bullied around into accepting anything. So in theory, India shuld just turn a deaf yr. to Pak and keep nodding along with the oft repating line of constructive engagement.

Pakistan will accept the obvious when it feels like.It' Not India's problem anymore.

 

[toxic_pus]

You are a thickhead as ever. If i would pick up a map of the 1700s it would still probably show the 13 Colonies under the English control!

So, welcome to the real world! Its 2010!!

Face-palm.

The transfer of power happened on the basis of British maps of early 20th Century and post 1860 there hadn’t been any major change in geo-political structure of Kashmir. So if one intends to figure out what constituted J&K in 1947, the map of 1908 is more relevant than a map of 1700, if at all you can find one.

Anyway, instead of replying to the rest of your jibber jabber how about I post a map from the cartographic section of UN depicting the entire J & K as on 2005. (I should have done that long time back ) For the original pdf file click here. For the 2009 version, that shows UNMOGIP deployment, click here.

Note:

1. The label ‘Jammu and Kashmir’ is affixed in a way to cover the entire state of Jammu and Kashmir.

2. AJK is not shown separately.

3. Pakistan, India and J & K are separately labeled, as in 3 separate entities, without indicating which country controls which part or if J & K is a ‘disputed’ territory. It simply indicates the LoC as per Shimla Agreement and mentions that ‘the final status of J & K has not yet been agreed upon by the parties’. This is a clear indication that UN considers GB to be an integral part of J & K, pending ‘final status’.

4. The map completely ignores the Chinese held territories of Aksai Chin and Saksam Valley.

Given the Pakistani penchant for making unprotected love with UN resolutions at the slightest hint of opportunity, this should ideally settle the issue of whether GB comes under the UN envisaged plebiscite or not. However, I am pretty sure our soldier boy will manage to amuse us a little bit more.

Lemme grab my coke and popcorn...

 

[KS]

what is this nonsense? If everything is fine, then why are the issues not solved or addressed yet?

''sorry not interested''

That means we r not interested in a solution that compromises our territorial integrity and we know very well how to deal with the present situation.

the rebellion and freedom fighting are local phenomenon. Shed away with that burden!

Local phenomenon ..my foot.
The only local(that too partial) indigenous movement is the Hizb and that too has been considerably weakened by the recent killings of their commanders and they want talks.
The only active group that is engaged now in cross border activities in LeT and as i said it is as Kashmiri as Osama is American.

yes they fought for their freedom. Glad you recognize the price of the blood of Kashmiri freedom-seekers.

Yeah sure we have to respect the blood of the Hindu pundits,the pro-India Muslims too that have been shed by the terrorists.

hopefully the curfews, targetted killings and other forms of terrorism and hard tactics will cease once you give Kashmiris the rights to what is absolutely theirs.

I dont know wat ur speaking about since the Kashmiris already have wat every other Indian has...sometimes they even get more benefits due to Article 370 than me ,an ordinary Indian.

tis true! So stop building dams and limiting our water. As it is our ''lifeline'' we will do anything to fight for our survivial.
anything.....

Thanx for acknowledging.So from now on No more rapes,state-terrorism,azaadi,Kashmiri aspirations etc,etc in the discussion.
Pakistan is purely interested in the strategic objective of securing its water resources and India is engaged(till now sucessfully) in denying Pakistan that goal and will do anything in the future for that.

indians are always exaggerating these infiltrations. Even bird cannot fly without being harassed.

I think u being a think tank definitely know better .

I have no information on these groups. My point is that civil disobedience is considered terrorism in Kashmir, and your state condones heavy handed tactics on the peoples of Kashmir.

U have no information on those groups...duh not surprising.
Similary we dont know wat u r talking abt (state-terrorism,human rights violations,rapings etc).
Think for a moment ..if civil disobediance was considered terrorism Geelani would not be still alive shouting his stupid slogans.He would have been done away long back.
U would not be seeing these shutdowns,bandhs etc in Kashmir every now and then.

State terrorism is wat Israel does in Gaza. (though their reasons are different).

I do think majority of Kashmiris do not want to be part of hindustan.

Then ur thinking wrong my friend.Jammu and Ladakh wants to be India and i think u would agree with me on that.
As for the valley even though they m,ight not want to be with India..neither do they want to be with Pakistan.

Proof: the recently done poll wich said only 2% (Geelani and his cohorts)want to join Pak.

indians will just find a distraction to stray the ''audience'' away from referendum. Why? Because you know the ruling would not be in your favour.

Ruling in our favour/not in our favour is a second thing.
The primary question is why the heck we should even go for that ruling.
The instrument of accession was signed to India and we go by that.

J&K were never parts of hindustan to begin with. Like us, you didnt even have a country until 1947 -- a day after we got ours

watever makes u sleep peacefully.We may not have been a nation politically...but spiritually we were always one.

 

[toxic_pus]

An addendum to my previous reply

Pakistan dont have 'entire Kashmir' phrase in its dictionary. It's just Kashmir that includes the present occupied territory of J & K by the indian army that commits atrocities at a vast rate and that too on daily basis.

Two, GB is something that was part of Pakistan since 16 Nov '47.

Three, you can frame, varnish and bullet proof (like that of Mona Lisa's) that I of A (a BS) that too which india found difficult to 'create' (and if for instance we assume that it was real), because on 1 Nov '97 Gilgit was an Independent Republic and just after 16 days it was in safe (Pakistani) hands. So much for the I of A. Keep rolling and playing with THE paper

Article 6 of Sino-Pakistan Frontier Agreement, 1963 (by virtue of which Pakistan gifted Saksam Valley to Chin) states:

The two parties have agreed that after the settlement of the Kashmir dispute between Pakistan and India, the sovereign authority concerned will reopen negotiations with the Government of the People’s Republic of China on the boundary as described in Article Two of the present agreement, so as to sign a formal boundary treaty to replace the present agreement, provided that in the event of the sovereign authority being Pakistan, the provisions of the present agreement and of the aforesaid protocol shall be maintained in the formal boundary treaty to be signed between the People’s Republic of China and Pakistan.​

The wording of this article clearly indicates that Pakistan envisages a possibility of change in possession of GB and in the event the 'sovereignty' passes to India after 'settlement of the Kashmir dispute', the current agreement shall lapse and new negotiations with China would have to be reopened. This means Pakistan recognizes, that it has no claim to 'sovereignty' over land from which Saksam Valley had been carved out, and is in fact subject to 'settlement' along with 'settlement of Kashmir dispute'.

Of course, the agreement is null and void, for being ex parte, but it does reflect Pakistan's position on GB, circa 1963.

Game, set and match....

 

[rubyjackass]

If Pak ever desires any sort of peace in the valley and when it gets tired of playing little proxy games, I believe they will approach India on their own and accept LoC as IB.

There is incredible futility in engaging Pak in meaningful dialouge right now. India just ought to concentrate on Internal security of J&K and rapid development of state economy and Infrastructure.

Negotiation can bear meaningful result only from a position of streangth and India is in one right now with Terrorism at an ll time low, US being a so called "strategic ally" of India and a far away stance from Cold war days, Russia as always backing India and China mantaining a stance of Non-Interference.

In has a greater voice and power at UN forums too and is not going to be bullied around into accepting anything. So in theory, India shuld just turn a deaf yr. to Pak and keep nodding along with the oft repating line of constructive engagement.

Pakistan will accept the obvious when it feels like.It' Not India's problem anymore.

Exactly what I think, I mean to the last letter.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

That means we r not interested in a solution that compromises our territorial integrity and we know very well how to deal with the present situation.:agree:

do you?

Local phenomenon ..my foot.
The only local(that too partial) indigenous movement is the Hizb and that too has been considerably weakened by the recent killings of their commanders and they want talks.

Every year, Kashmiris on Pakistani & indian-occupied sides raise a black flag on August 15 and 27 October. To the standard indian, any form of dissent is called terrorism (learning from the israilys).

it is fashionable for hindustan to talk about infiltrators and terrorists; but like i said, it's a purely local phenomenon. I condemn any attack on civilians, but your forces have suppressed Kashmiris on so many occasions. It is justified if they encounter resistance from the freedom fighters.

The only active group that is engaged now in cross border activities in LeT and as i said it is as Kashmiri as Osama is American.

no such group exists

Yeah sure we have to respect the blood of the Hindu pundits,the pro-India Muslims too that have been shed by the terrorists.

pro-india Muslims? LoL. The "Muslims" who want it to be apart of hindustan are nothing but nationalist idiots brainwashed and paid by hindu.

Yes the demographics have changed. I have little sympathy for these so called hindu pundits when Muslim Kashmiris who always did dominate the region are oppressed by your side, and their political representatives are always being placed under house-arrest; including the Hurriyet members. Spare me the crap.

I dont know wat ur speaking about since the Kashmiris already have wat every other Indian has...sometimes they even get more benefits due to Article 370 than me ,an ordinary Indian.

what every other indian has? do you speak as a common indian person? Because the common indian doesnt have much, sir.

Thanx for acknowledging.So from now on No more rapes,state-terrorism,azaadi,Kashmiri aspirations etc,etc in the discussion.
Pakistan is purely interested in the strategic objective of securing its water resources and India is engaged(till now sucessfully) in denying Pakistan that goal and will do anything in the future for that.

hindustan will cave in eventually, when is most convenient for us (and them too)

U have no information on those groups...duh not surprising.
Similary we dont know wat u r talking abt (state-terrorism,human rights violations,rapings etc).

pictures speak thousand words

Think for a moment ..if civil disobediance was considered terrorism Geelani would not be still alive shouting his stupid slogans.He would have been done away long back.

how many times has he been placed under house arrest and 'detention' since, say, 2005?

State terrorism is wat Israel does in Gaza. (though their reasons are different).

The Palestinians are demanding freedom and an America-backed israel is denying the right. Kashmiris just ask for a referendum, and you deny them this right. Your mr. nehru is tossing and turning in his grave.

Then ur thinking wrong my friend.Jammu and Ladakh wants to be India and i think u would agree with me on that.

I don't.

As for the valley even though they m,ight not want to be with India..neither do they want to be with Pakistan.

mixed views on a difficult subject.

by the way, you can replace ''might'' with ''without a doubt''

Proof: the recently done poll wich said only 2% (Geelani and his cohorts)want to join Pak.

if this ''poll'' is to be believed (and assuming 4,000 respondents were wisely chosen) ---1/5 of the population in J&K believes that violence and uprising is the solution

The instrument of accession was signed to India and we go by that.

and undone by your nehru who himself called for plebiscite, as demanded by our Quaid-e-Azam

watever makes u sleep peacefully.We may not have been a nation politically...but spiritually we were always one.

that's got to be the gayest thing i've ever read..

spiritually my ***. Your spirituality helped stop genocide of Muslims Sikhs and Christians --all of whom you called hindustany

 

[KS]

do you?

Going by the recent news I think we do.

LeT commander feels the heat, seeks Pakistan return

Every year, Kashmiris on Pakistani & indian-occupied sides raise a black flag on August 15 and 27 October. To the standard indian, any form of dissent is called terrorism (learning from the israilys).

it is fashionable for hindustan to talk about infiltrators and terrorists; but like i said, it's a purely local phenomenon. I condemn any attack on civilians, but your forces have suppressed Kashmiris on so many occasions. It is justified if they encounter resistance from the freedom fighters.

As much it is fashionable in Pakistan to attribute RAW to all ur ills it is as much in India but much more substantiated.

no such group exists

Duh...why am i not surprised..?

pro-india Muslims? LoL. The "Muslims" who want it to be apart of hindustan are nothing but nationalist idiots brainwashed and paid by hindu.

Nationalist idiots.....

so do u think the 140 million odd in India still root for pakistan..?

if so ...sorry for arguing with u...nothing can cure u.

Yes the demographics have changed. I have little sympathy for these so called hindu pundits when Muslim Kashmiris who always did dominate the region are oppressed by your side, and their political representatives are always being placed under house-arrest; including the Hurriyet members. Spare me the crap.

wen ur so straight faced in saying that u dont have sympathy for those pundits who were hounded out of their home by these blood thirsty terrorists....i dont give a shyt to the other community living in Kashmir.

what every other indian has? do you speak as a common indian person? Because the common indian doesnt have much, sir.

Oh thank u...we have a country called India that is today a economic and military giant and we dont live on the aid of other countries.

hindustan will cave in eventually, when is most convenient for us (and them too)

Ur one bloody hell of a optimist man......

pictures speak thousand words

Like i said it wouldn take us much time to cleanse Kashmir of all seapratists,settle down Hindus there and give a shyt as to wat Pakistan thinks.
But we dont operate that way..Otherwise why would we hitting with Lathis wen there is an AK slung over the shoulder.?

how many times has he been placed under house arrest and 'detention' since, say, 2005?

BTW do u know how many times he was treated for his cancer in India at the taxpayers cost..?

Source

BTW it also answers ur questions abt LeT.

Consider him lucky that he has only been under house arrest and not killed as he would have been in case of any other country.

The Palestinians are demanding freedom and an America-backed israel is denying the right. Kashmiris just ask for a referendum, and you deny them this right. Your mr. nehru is tossing and turning in his grave.

Refrendum is not simple my friend..there are many pre-conditions as laid down by the same UNSC resolutions.
Ceasing violence,re-settlement of Pundits,re-settlement of Punjabis settled in Kashmir,Getting back the land unilaterally gifted to China by ur country.
Fulfill those..then we ll think of referendum.

I don't.

Ok let me enlighten u....

But in the predominantly Hindu Jammu division to the south, support is under 1%

.

BBC News - 'First' Kashmir survey produces 'startling' results

Still u dont believe..?

if this ''poll'' is to be believed (and assuming 4,000 respondents were wisely chosen) ---1/5 of the population in J&K believes that violence and uprising is the solution

Wer did u get that...?

and undone by your nehru who himself called for plebiscite, as demanded by our Quaid-e-Azam

The same survey says this also...

Dr Bradnock said that it was "clear" that a plebiscite on the future of Kashmir - along the lines envisaged in UN resolutions of 1948-49 - is "extremely unlikely to offer a solution today".

spiritually my ***. Your spirituality helped stop genocide of Muslims Sikhs and Christians --all of whom you called hindustany

Cmon wats thihs got to do with the discussion..?BTW did ur ummah concept stop u from bombing the shyt out of FATA or Balochistan..?

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Going by the recent news I think we do

who has the watch, who has the time

As much it is fashionable in Pakistan to attribute RAW to all ur ills it is as much in India but much more substantiated.

read our media; we are also critical about mistakes we have made too. Nobody is in denial except you. I know that RAW is engaged in anti-Pakistan activity in Pakistan, ''my'' government chooses not to bring it to the world stage. But we have other ways of keeping you cows in check.

Duh...why am i not surprised..?

it was banned under previous regime and is a defunct organization. As for JuD which you people love to obcess about, as far as I know it is an Islamic charity and they have done good things in Pakistan --from earthquake relief efforts to education to infrastructure projects for even the minority groups in Pakistan (like the Christians)

so spare me your rhetorical bullshit

Nationalist idiots.....

so do u think the 140 million odd in India still root for pakistan..?

i've heard a lot of interesting stories in deccan hyderabad. But as i dont reside in hindustan (thank God!), I cannot dictate to you what this person or that person says.

wen ur so straight faced in saying that u dont have sympathy for those pundits who were hounded out of their home by these blood thirsty terrorists....i dont give a shyt to the other community living in Kashmir.

i could damn care less for the ''pundits''.....at least i'm being honest about it.

Oh thank u...we have a country called India that is today a economic and military giant and we dont live on the aid of other countries.

yes economic giant where almost half the population falls under the international poverty line and most of the (over)population lives in rural underdeveloped slums....by the way, india does take aid too

(I'm personally against any country giving another country ''aid'' for political purposes)

Ur one bloody hell of a optimist man......

I'm just patient.

Like i said it wouldn take us much time to cleanse Kashmir of all seapratists,settle down Hindus there and give a shyt as to wat Pakistan thinks.

good luck with that one, lol

But we dont operate that way..Otherwise why would we hitting with Lathis wen there is an AK slung over the shoulder.?

to your victims, it makes little difference. They'd rather die by the bullet than live to be humiliated. Inshallah they will get their freedom, hopefully if not in my lifetime, at least that of my offspring.

Consider him lucky that he has only been under house arrest and not killed as he would have been in case of any other country.

india is doing us a favour, dont worry why dont you keep doing what you are doing to the activists and demanders of freedom

Wer did u get that...?

ToI article

The same survey says this also...

The same survey says this also


Despite the complexity, some conclusions are clear.

81% say unemployment is the most significant problem facing Kashmiris (66% in AJK, 87% in J&K).

Government corruption (22% AJK and 68% J&K)

Poor economic development (42% AJK, 45% J&K)

Human rights abuses (19% AJK, 43% J&K)

Kashmir conflict itself (24% AJK, 36% J&K) are all seen as major problems. 80% of Kashmiris say that the dispute is very important to them personally,” it says.

'Majority Kashmiris Favour Independence'

Cmon wats thihs got to do with the discussion..?BTW did ur ummah concept stop u from bombing the shyt out of FATA or Balochistan..?

we bomb areas where anti-Pakistan elements operate. Follow the news rather than resort to the stupidest smear I have read today.

did your self-created notion of ''shining india'' come into play when you allowed home grown naxal movement (consisting mostly of lightly armed farmers and tribals) to humiliate your security forces, bomb trains and engage in as bad terrorism as the TTP are doing?


you indians never fail to make me laugh. I thank you for that. I like laughing, it feels good.

 

[gaurish]

But that doesnt mean India cant improve things in Kashmir. One of the things the Indian police in Kashmir need to be educated on is how to make arrests. The police in India still doesnt get it that making an arrest means cuffing that person and preventing that person from carrying out activities against the law. It does not involve beating that person or treating them unfairly or disrespectfully. After seeing some of the pictures in Indian Kashmir, I have to say that police there need a course on how to cuff, how to get a prisoner into a vehicle and remove them from the scene as quickly as possible. You could perhaps use a taser or something to immobilize a person if he or she resists arrest. How can you beat that person? That's disrespectful and violates the fundamental rights of that person.

Indian Police is much better then the American army, whose acts in Iraq have been seen by all world....

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

The US-based group Human Rights Watch says India's policing system facilitates and even encourages abuses.

It says there has been little change in attitudes, training or equipment since the police was formed in colonial times with the aim to control the population.

It says the government must take major steps to overhaul a failing system.

There was no immediate response from the Indian authorities.



.....................


The BBC's Damian Grammaticas in Delhi says the catalogue of abuses by India's police detailed in this report is long and shocking - arbitrary arrests, beatings and torture to force confessions, even the cold-blooded gunning down of innocent people.

The police are often a law unto themselves, say campaigners

"[M]y hands and legs were tied; a wooden stick was passed through my legs. They started beating me badly on the legs with lathis [batons] and kicking me," the report quoted a fruit vendor in the city of Varanasi as saying.

"They beat me until I was crying and shouting for help. When I was almost fainting, they stopped the beating... Then they turned me upside down... They poured water from a plastic jug into my mouth and nose, and I fainted," he said.

Human Rights Watch spent a year investigating claims of human rights violations to compile the 118-page report, entitled "Broken System: Dysfunction, Abuse and Impunity in the Indian Police".

It says the report is based on interviews with more than 80 police officers of varying ranks, 60 victims of police abuses and numerous discussions with experts and civil society activists.

The report says that "abysmal conditions for police officers contribute to violations".

Human Rights Watch says it spoke to 80 police officers

Ill-equipped and under pressure to fight crime, police officers often take the law into their own hands, it says.

Indian police accused of abuses | NowPublic News Coverage

 

[RollingStones]

Indian Police is much better then the American army, whose acts in Iraq have been seen by all world....

What is the point in comparing with the US Army? Dont you want your own policies and standards that comprehensively protect your own citizens? The point is the US Army and/or police cannot behave like the Indian Army/Police do within the US. The constitutional protections including things such as Miranda rights are there. The operative sentence is how is YOUR Army or Police behaving with your OWN citizens not those of other countries. Are the rights of Indian Citizens being trampled upon and do they have a forum to correct those violations? These are the questions you should be asking and not comparing yourself to what the US or the Russians or Chinese did or did not do.

 

[KS]

who has the watch, who has the time

rite now we have it....and i dont see it coming to pakistan in the near (or far) future....

read our media; we are also critical about mistakes we have made too. Nobody is in denial except you. I know that RAW is engaged in anti-Pakistan activity in Pakistan, ''my'' government chooses not to bring it to the world stage.

Thats wat i said...RAW is the cause of all ur ills...right from water,bombblasts right to wen ur neighbours undies are stolen..

But we have other ways of keeping you cows in check.

Should i start with the name of a certain animal starting with P..?

it was banned under previous regime and is a defunct organization. As for JuD which you people love to obcess about, as far as I know it is an Islamic charity and they have done good things in Pakistan --from earthquake relief efforts to education to infrastructure projects for even the minority groups in Pakistan (like the Christians)

yeah yeah...one of a kind charity group whose leader calls for armed jihad against another country for an ill that is of their own making.
Serioulsy enuff jokes for today..

i've heard a lot of interesting stories in deccan hyderabad. But as i dont reside in hindustan (thank God!), I cannot dictate to you what this person or that person says.

The feeling is mutual...thank god u dont reside in Hindustan.

i could damn care less for the ''pundits''.....at least i'm being honest about it.

u should be ashamed for being so honest in this regard..

yes economic giant where almost half the population falls under the international poverty line and most of the (over)population lives in rural underdeveloped slums....by the way, india does take aid too

u forgot abt the toilets mate.....

(I'm personally against any country giving another country ''aid'' for political purposes)

Ok so y dont u say to americans..."we dont need ur aid" and we r not going to fight ur war..

I'm just patient.

But in vain.

good luck with that one, lol

We dont need ur wishes on that as we r not going in that path.

to your victims, it makes little difference. They'd rather die by the bullet than live to be humiliated. Inshallah they will get their freedom, hopefully if not in my lifetime, at least that of my offspring.

To u who covets their land it doesnt...but to them it matters.
We r pumping in more economy and infrastructure and in another generation or two u ll see the difference.Ok y two generations,wen that old man Geelani dies everything will be normal..Eagerly waiting for that day

india is doing us a favour, dont worry why dont you keep doing what you are doing to the activists and demanders of freedom

We dont need ur permissions on that mate.We ll do wat we think is good for our country and couldn care for u less.

ToI article

So u as a Pakistani believe ToI..??
Shall i give u a ToI article that says Pakistan is the epicentre of World terrorism..Would u believe that too...

The same survey says this also
Despite the complexity, some conclusions are clear.

81% say unemployment is the most significant problem facing Kashmiris (66% in AJK, 87% in J&K).

Government corruption (22% AJK and 68% J&K)

Poor economic development (42% AJK, 45% J&K)

Human rights abuses (19% AJK, 43% J&K)

A very very special thank u for bringing to my notice wat the Kashmiris really want..They want jobs,economic development,less corruption and for all these India is in a much much better position to provide them than pakistan.
We have already started that and as i said just wait one or two generations..everything will be fine.

we bomb areas where anti-Pakistan elements operate. Follow the news rather than resort to the stupidest smear I have read today.

Similarly we take action against those whom we consider anti-india elements.Nothing wrong i suppose.

did your self-created notion of ''shining india'' come into play when you allowed home grown naxal movement (consisting mostly of lightly armed farmers and tribals) to humiliate your security forces, bomb trains and engage in as bad terrorism as the TTP are doing?

Do u want me to go down to the level of mocking ur security forces who were killed at the hands of the rag-tag taliban armed with just AKs and RPGs...?

you indians never fail to make me laugh. I thank you for that. I like laughing, it feels good.

yup..as some wise man once said....Ignorance is bliss....Keep Laughing.