The Future of Kashmir? "Seven" Possible Solutions!

[Evil Flare]

A1Kaid we can keep debating on this topic. Zardari recently said Mujahideen are terrors. He accepted it at international level.
Do you support them? Could you give some details about them...their group..their motive..their traning ..their arms..their mission..etc

Who Gave Zardari rights to decide ?

 

[metalfalcon]

Cuz they just dont want to even talk about it ! forget going to the damn table how can it be resolved and how can peace come between the two nations ! India must comply with this issue and stop running away from it....

India will never agree to any "Reasonable Solution". They want all the Kashmir Including our Northern areas as well, They want to share the Border with Afghanistan.

There is no solution to Kashmir Except "By Force". India arrogantly denies that there is any problem in the Kashmir valley and blames Pakistan for Causing Troubles and terrorism.

 

[hasang20]

India will never agree to any "Reasonable Solution". They want all the Kashmir Including our Northern areas as well, They want to share the Border with Afghanistan.

There is no solution to Kashmir Except "By Force". India arrogantly denies that there is any problem in the Kashmir valley and blames Pakistan for Causing Troubles and terrorism.

i agree,we are still waiting for what......it has to be taken by force whether the world like it or not enough blood spill of kashmiri's

 

[Omar1984]

India will never agree to any "Reasonable Solution". They want all the Kashmir Including our Northern areas as well, They want to share the Border with Afghanistan.

There is no solution to Kashmir Except "By Force". India arrogantly denies that there is any problem in the Kashmir valley and blames Pakistan for Causing Troubles and terrorism.

Indians cant even control Kashmir valley with its million troops, what makes you think they can control Northern Areas and Azad Kashmir? They blame Azad Kashmiris for problems in their country and Indians made plans on striking places in Azad Kashmir.

Northern Areas and Azad Kashmir have shown no interst in joining India, theres more people in favor of India in other parts of Pakistan than Azad Kashmir and Northern Areas. People in Northern Areas dont even call their land Kashmir.

Its different in Indian Occupied Kashmir where some Kashmiris would like to be part of Pakistan, but most in Indian Occupied Kashmir favor an independent Kashmir, while Kashmiris in Pakistan's Kashmir never protested against Pakistan...India saw millions of Kashmiris protesting against India this past summer.

 

[Neo]

World Agenda: Kashmir - the elephant in the room​

​

January 22, 2009

In our latest daily column, the Times' Delhi bureau chief says India must not ignore Kashmir when searching for explanations for extremism

Arrogant, ham-handed, startling, impertinent – these are the sort of words used here, with reason, to describe David Miliband's comments on the Mumbai attacks last week.

There is another word, though, that applies equally well: correct.

Of course it was impolitic to contradict Manmohan Singh, the Prime Minister, by saying that Britain does not believe the Pakistani state directed the Mumbai attacks.

As for suggesting that the root cause of such attacks is Kashmir, surely the FCO recalls India's outrage in 1997 when Robin Cook suggested mediating on that issue?

For the current Foreign Secretary of the former colonial ruler to make both these points publicly, while on Indian soil, was either deliberately provocative or incredibly naive.

Mr Miliband also managed to cause offence with his tone and body language – a schoolboy error in dealing with a notoriously sensitive partner.

The fact remains, however: he was spot on.

Indian officials admit in private that there is no evidence yet of a direct link between Mumbai and the Pakistani state, even if they are sure that it played a role.

More significantly, most regional experts agree with Mr Miliband that "resolution of the dispute over Kashmir would help deny extremists in the region one of their main calls to arms".

For too long, Kashmir has been the "elephant in the room" in the international discourse on security in South Asia – and a stain on the copybook of the world's largest democracy.

In 1948-9, the United Nations passed resolutions calling for a plebiscite in Kashmir on whether it should join India or Pakistan.

Ever since, India has refused to comply and blocked international efforts to resolve the issue, over which it has fought two of its three wars with Pakistan.

Now that both have nuclear weapons, Kashmir is a legitimate concern for the whole world, yet foreigners who bring it up are invariably shouted down.

India's media rarely challenges government policy there, while the foreign media has been understandably focused on Pakistan and Afghanistan since 9/11.

As a result, few outside the region are even aware that India still has half a million troops in Kashmir, making it one of the most heavily militarised corners of the planet.

Or that by official estimates, more than 47,000 people have been killed there since an uprising against Indian rule began in 1989 (rights groups put the toll nearer 70,000).

Or that that Kashmir's four million Muslims routinely suffer arbitrary arrest, torture and extra-judicial execution by security forces, according to most rights groups.

Last year alone, at least 42 people were killed by security forces in protests against Indian rule. By comparison, 22 people were killed in the anti-China riots in Tibet in 2008.

Kashmir's problems do not justify the Mumbai attacks.

But in trying to prevent more attacks in India and elsewhere, it is ludicrous to continue to ignore Indian policy in the region. The fact is that Kashmir is the primary motivation for most terrorists in India and Pakistan. It is also why Pakistan's spies maintain links with such people.

The real reason India is so upset is that Mr Miliband's words reflect the thinking of President Obama, who plans to appoint a special envoy on South Asia.

The idea is for this envoy to take a more holistic approach to the region, including Kashmir, to address the concerns of all the major stakeholders.

It is a good idea and Mr Obama and his allies should continue to promote it, however loudly India complains.

 

[paritosh]

well going slightly off-topic...
would a sensible solution to kashmir result in good india pakistan relations??
would we live as peaceful neighbours as Jinnah wanted us to..?
all the years of rivlary and wars and all the billions spent on weaponry ...what do you think?
or are we classic die-hard arch-rivals...who'd never come to terms with each other...

 

[hasang20]

well going slightly off-topic...
would a sensible solution to kashmir result in good india pakistan relations??
would we live as peaceful neighbours as Jinnah wanted us to..?
all the years of rivlary and wars and all the billions spent on weaponry ...what do you think?

Free kashmire than we will reduce the number of AMP and Ballestic Missiles and will not make ICBM's

 

[rubyjackass]

How about asking US and Goi to give us some $500 billion for the kashmir valley and integrate it with India...and then move all kashmiris who want to be a part of pakistan to pakistani land..i.e somewhere in balauchistan or sindh...we can develop a far better infrastructure for them and ourselves.....same goes for india, (vice versa)....if she agreees....

I agree considering the money each country has already dished out for operations here. For comparison India is going to spend >10.5 bil on mrca.


For a lesser figure of course.
start with 150 bil

 

[Omar1984]

well going slightly off-topic...
would a sensible solution to kashmir result in good india pakistan relations??
would we live as peaceful neighbours as Jinnah wanted us to..?
all the years of rivlary and wars and all the billions spent on weaponry ...what do you think?
or are we classic die-hard arch-rivals...who'd never come to terms with each other...

I think if Pakistan and India solved this major dispute then tensions between the two South Asian countries would drastically decrease. Then both countries can move on and work on the dreams they have for their nations. We can be peaceful friendly nations like U.S. and Canada...it'll be in the best interst for both India and Pakistan.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Dear Indian Forum Members,

Would you kindly instruct humble TruthSeeker on your views? Here is my question again:

It seems that the "most fair" way to decide this issue is a UN run plebiscite, or, probably, a series of them, which establish the facts on which peoples want which outcomes. Would an Indian poster educate me, an open minded observer, in a clear, non-confrontational way, why this is not viewed as an acceptable approach by the Indian public and Indian Government?

Thank you,

TS

 

[roopesh]

Dear Indian Forum Members, It seems that the "most fair" way to decide this issue is a UN run plebiscite, or, probably, a series of them, which establish the facts on which peoples want which outcomes. Would an Indian poster educate me, an open minded observer, in a clear, non-confrontational way, why this is not viewed as an acceptable approach by the Indian public and Indian Government?

As an Indian here is my view...
Pakistan is not Intersted in Indian Kashmir ppl. I asked ppl here many times..Can you mention pakistan govt or NGO organisation help to ppl of kashmir. Nothing. If pakistan wants so badly the citizens of kashmir why cant they declare free citizenship so atleast POOR muslim ppl who doenst have property can go there. NO.
India also not done any work to help Pakistan kashmir. Indian kashmir started long time back with Hindu-Muslim. most of the hindus got shifted to other locations. Now also Kashmir ppl have many tax benifits across not only the state..its across the country. They have reservations in all the state colleges as govt couldnt develop their infrastcutre. Govt of India really making all the efforts to take care of kashmir ppl.
Pakistan simply declared Azad Kashmir which is a small strip and allows terrors to cross over to fight. Its a question of Indias security.

Instead of solving the issue peacefully Pakistan helping terrors (not my claim, but no one rejects it). World knows how kargil happened. They feel india can be weakened by terrors. Even many forum ppl mentioned it.

All Pakistan wants is WATER from kashmir. India at this poletical game doenst want to loose its grip as it can control pakistan. If pakistan really kick india for any reason India can throw Indus water treaty which makes pakistan to listen to India.

The best way for both countires is to stop cross border terrors (BOTH). and try to keep the relation neutral for few years so all the terros settle their lifes in different format. Some solution is possible after both ppl trust each other..
before then LOC is the border no matter UN US comes too....

 

[TruthSeeker]

As an Indian here is my view...

Thank you roopesh for answering. I have read your post three times and I cannot see that you answered why not allow a UN plebiscite process? If India has done so much for many or all of the Kashmiri's and parts of Kashmir, wouldn't they be grateful and vote to stay in India? Why not hear their voice. If they are ungrateful for all your help, let them be damned and go to Pakistan.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Thank you roopesh for answering. I have read your post three times and I cannot see that you answered why not allow a UN plebiscite process? If india has done so much for many or all of the Kashmiri's and parts of Kashmir, wouldn't they be grateful and vote to stay in India? Why not hear their voice. If they are ungrateful for all you help, let them be damned and go to Pakistan.

I was just going to say the same thing - its just a litany of complaints against Pakistan, not any comprehensive rebuttal of why solutions in line with the recommendations of the UNSC and the conditions of partition (referendum/plebiscite) agreed to by the GoI at the time - in fact they were strongly affirming these solutions (referendum) 'shouting from roof tops' at the time, are not implementable in some form or the other.

There are multiple proposals out there

- Referendum in all of kashmir as a single unit.

- Referendum district wise.

- Referendum in 3 to 6 parts kashmir (kashmir valley+ Azad kashmir), Jammu,Laddakh, Northern Areas (Gilgit + Baltistan).

- Referendum in one region - Kashmir valley+Azad kashmir - with Northern Areas, Jammu and Laddakh remaining with Pakistan and India respectively.

'Irrational nationalism' is how I define the Indian opposition to something they themselves agreed to - and despite this India wants a permanent seat on the UN security council.

I would think one basic pre-condition of even thinking of applying for a permanent seat at the UNSC would be that the country applying has not blatantly violated or refused to implement binding UNSC resolutions.

 

[ejaz007]

As an Indian here is my view...
Pakistan is not Intersted in Indian Kashmir ppl. I asked ppl here many times..Can you mention pakistan govt or NGO organisation help to ppl of kashmir. Nothing. If pakistan wants so badly the citizens of kashmir why cant they declare free citizenship so atleast POOR muslim ppl who doenst have property can go there. NO.
India also not done any work to help Pakistan kashmir. Indian kashmir started long time back with Hindu-Muslim. most of the hindus got shifted to other locations. Now also Kashmir ppl have many tax benifits across not only the state..its across the country. They have reservations in all the state colleges as govt couldnt develop their infrastcutre. Govt of India really making all the efforts to take care of kashmir ppl.
Pakistan simply declared Azad Kashmir which is a small strip and allows terrors to cross over to fight. Its a question of Indias security.

Instead of solving the issue peacefully Pakistan helping terrors (not my claim, but no one rejects it). World knows how kargil happened. They feel india can be weakened by terrors. Even many forum ppl mentioned it.

All Pakistan wants is WATER from kashmir. India at this poletical game doenst want to loose its grip as it can control pakistan. If pakistan really kick india for any reason India can throw Indus water treaty which makes pakistan to listen to India.

The best way for both countires is to stop cross border terrors (BOTH). and try to keep the relation neutral for few years so all the terros settle their lifes in different format. Some solution is possible after both ppl trust each other..
before then LOC is the border no matter UN US comes too....

Dear roopesh,

Your post is as stupid as is expected from an Indian member on this topic.
First of all Pakistan does not merely want land or people to either increase its population or land mass. We want a just resolution for the problem that has plagued us ever since independence. We want a solution so that millions of people on both sides of the LOC can finally decide what they want.
We have not yet integrated Azad Kashmir into Pakistan merely for the reason that once the people of Kashmir have freely and without any pressure decided what they want then we shall proceed as per their wishes. If they wish to join us we shall integrate them as fifth province, they wish to go with India fine with us.
As for water you have yourself violated the agreement your government signed with Pakistan. Lets see how much water you can store. Ultimately you shall have to release it. The only problems is that you shall release the water without informing us to create flooding and stop its flow when crop cultivation season shall beging. This happened last year and also shows the mentality.
Any one who applies for Pakistani citizenship is given one without any questions asked.

Dear Truth Seeker,

The Indians wont respond to your question because they know if a plebiscite is held no matter what the Kashmirirs choose atleast they wont choose the option of remaining with India.

 

[beetel]

Thank you roopesh for answering. I have read your post three times and I cannot see that you answered why not allow a UN plebiscite process? If india has done so much for many or all of the Kashmiri's and parts of Kashmir, wouldn't they be grateful and vote to stay in India? Why not hear their voice. If they are ungrateful for all you help, let them be damned and go to Pakistan.

Sir
because nationalistic sentiments are very high in subcontinent ..May be because We were under external rule for hundreds of years..Because of previous attack on country pakistan became its natural enemy..There was no space for logical thinking when two countries are planning to out do each other in arms race and preparing themselves for next war..
The situation is like two children fighting to check their position in heirarchy..
So collective national psyche is not matured in both sides..No leader is ready to take the decision and face the music ..In other words there is only one seat which has been occupied with enimity and logical sense has to wait for its turn