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The Future of Kashmir? "Seven" Possible Solutions!

It is not about satisfying India or Pakistan its about people of Kashmir.

The most popular leader of Kashmir, Sheikh Abdullah wanted autonomy under the Indian union.

Hold referendum and give Kashmiris choice to decide whether they want

1. To be with India

2. To be with Pakistan
or

3. To be Independent.

As all governments in Pakistan have refused to recognize the independent option in the UN resolution on plebiscite, your point does not arise.


Still the onus is on India. are you ready to give more autonomy?

We have already given autonomy to the state of Jammu and Kashmir. Discussions are taking place to give the state greater autonomy. Despite calling it "Azad"Kashmir, Pakistan does not do the same. So no, the onus is not on India but on Pakistan.

As stated before, there are no options that will satisfy either Pakistan or India. Greater autonomy is the only way forward.
 
We are again talking about the views or wishes of individuals and not the Kashmiri people in general.
All the Pakistani Governments have never refused plebiscite as according to UN

1. Envisaging a cease-fire.
2.The withdrawal of all outside forces from the state.
3.A plebiscite under the control of an administrator who would be nominated by the Secretary General.


Now whereas the Autonomy on Azad Kashmir is concerned, Who told u that India gave autonomy to AJK?

India moved her forces into Srinagar and a drawn-out fight between Indian forces and the forces of liberation ensued. The forces of Azad Kashmir successfully resisted India's armed intervention and liberated one-third of the State.


India needs to withdraw "ALL" its forces from Kashmir and then let the Kashmiri People decide their fate through a democratic practice of exercising their Vote.
 
In due time , LOC as IB is the only solution that I can see , with a no riders attached withdrawal of all Army and paramilitary units from J&K. Full autonomy to the state too.

If not now , then this will have to accepted 10-15 years down the line , simply because there is no other acceptable solution. Also, a monitoring body should be set up to keep tabs on Indian and Pak claims over river systems of the reason , this should consist of Intl, neutral members.

The concept of plebeside came up because of a stupid Indian PM decided to go to UN under Intl. preassure, it's a bit like giving up nuke weapons in the sense that , if it happens in all disputed regions of the world , then India should follow. Why the hell should we go at it alone.

American support to Pak on Kashmir will dwindle in due time as US would not want to needle india too much owing to it's own economic and diplomatic interests.

The ball is pretty much in Pakistan's court, either accept J&K as an Indian supervised region with full autonomy or continue to fight a losing battle via proxies and risk future trouble.
 
ohh man, then why you are scared of polling as your government promised in 1949? do it, and finish the issue. Since you guyz are so much confidence.. If they don't want to be with us, then why should we care? But this will only happen after polling not like that where you have more then 5 lac army in the kashmir and expect they will speak the truth!!

Let me get everything straight here, Kashmir is an integral part of India and will always remain so. Pakistan or Pakistani do not need to worry about Kashmir or Kashmiris as that is India’s outlook and it is being looked after in a democratic way. Pakistan needs to worry about its own problems first rather that try to interfere into Kashmir which is truly an internal Indian issue. And when it comes to threat of war, India is fully prepared and capable of taking care of any “misadventure” from Pakistan. When it comes to the so called UN resolutions, India is not liable to adhere to any resolutions that it feels are biased and not representing the real situation. Kashmir is an integral part of India and only because it has a Muslim majority, it does not mean that it belongs to Pakistan or is independent. There are many other regions in India that have a Muslim majority so does that mean they also don’t belong to India ? If I must remind everyone, India has more Muslims than Pakistan, then by that standard, even Pakistan belongs to India. Indian Muslims are living peacefully and unlike many other countries India has managed to keep all religion running simultaneously very successfully. Yes there are skirmishes but they are a thing of the past now, and as the new generation grows up to a more liberal thinking, theses so called religious boundaries get thinner and thinner. The recent elections in Kashmir have proved that the valley is starting to realize that it benefits from peace and staying with a democratic India. Unlike Pakistan, who has been under military rule for most of its history, India has managed to maintain a robust democratic infrastructure since its independence. As shown in 1947,65,71 and the Kargil conflict, India will defend its territory at all cost and has no future plans to give up even an inch of it. My recommendation to Pakistan is that first solve your own problems before recommending solutions to other countries. :cheers:
 
The Solution to Kashmir is clearly stated in all the resolutions passed by UN. United Nations arbitrators have put forward 11 different proposals for the demilitarization of the region, every one of which is accepted by Pakistan, but rejected by the Indian government. It was your Prime Minister Nehru who ran to the UN holding his “dhoti” when the Indians could not handle things on their own. Once the resolution is unexpected and against their will you refuse to accept it. We as Pakistanis still have the courage to look you (a country 5 times our size) in the eye. We have liberated 37% of Kashmir earlier and will keep fighting till we liberate rest of the 43% leaving 20% of Aksai-chin. If you don’t accept UN then why don’t you quit as a member or you are there to accept the decisions that benefit your interests only. Whining about the UN resolutions will not make your position any stronger. You have never let any opportunity go to dub the majority Muslims who decided to remain in India as traitors and Pakistani agents. The only agenda is to keep them poor, illiterate, diseased, toiling masses in perpetual misery.

A step forward in the peace talks results in Bombs ripping through a train killing innocent civilians and according to plans Indian Media as always without a blink of the eye blaming it on Pakistan and later to their own disgrace find out the involvement of a serving army officer Col.Purohit (Military Intelligence) whose Chief Investigation Officer Karkare (ATS chief) and his top brass killed in Mumbai attacks (another inside job) under suspicious circumstances.
If India harbors and protects the perpetrators of the heinous crimes on the Samjhota Express and in Malegaon and fails to rein in the Indian Army from blowing up mosques, churches and trains, then it is as bad as the fascists who are in power.
You have dozens of separatist movements going on in your own country and should start worrying about them first.
India is facing enough internal strife and turmoil to endanger its very own integrity that should be taken care of first instead of pointing fingers over and across its borders.
 
Kashmir cannot / will not be "solved". Ever.

Either status quo will be maintained, or somewhere down the line there will be re-unification and re-absorption of Pakistan Occupied Kashmir back into India, as Pakistan and Pakistanis struggle to keep the rest of their country together in the face of large scale violence and anarchy across large swathes of the country.

Many experts have predicted, based on the current scenario and the way things are heading, the very real short to medium term reality of a Pakistan that has lost Balochistan, that never really had Waziristan and the so called NWFP, and that is now in reality and officially what it has and had always been for the elite polity and army since Partition in 1947 - Sindh and Punjab.

The age-old argument/stand by Pakistanis that they were always a different people from Indians per-se and hence deserved a different nation (the so-called Two-Nation theory) was and is therefore no different by extension to the Balochi people's arguably legitimate historical/racial claims of being a completely different people from sub-continental Pakistanis and thus not ever wanting to have gotten dragged into the Pakistani state from the very begining, instead of having their own independent nationhood (with parts of Afghanistan and Iran merged into the same) or merged into Afghanistan (or even Iran ..... depending on a plebiscite of what the Balochi people want for themselves and their right to determine their own future ..... that they definitely do not want Pakistan is however clear to all) with whose people they share much more in common ancestry as a people. (howz that for a single sentence OceanX? :))

A coin always has two sides, and I for one would like my country to increasingly make the world aware of the other side of the Kashmir / Balochistan coin as fair return for what Pakistan has done to my country and my people for the past 6 decades.

See what India has done to develop Kashmir and see how Pakistan has treated Balochistan for the past 60 years ..... the answer and solution should and will be self-evident to all.

The rest as they say will follow.

Cheers, Doc
 
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The Solution to Kashmir is clearly stated in all the resolutions passed by UN. United Nations arbitrators have put forward 11 different proposals for the demilitarization of the region, every one of which is accepted by Pakistan, but rejected by the Indian government. It was your Prime Minister Nehru who ran to the UN holding his “dhoti” when the Indians could not handle things on their own. Once the resolution is unexpected and against their will you refuse to accept it. We as Pakistanis still have the courage to look you (a country 5 times our size) in the eye. We have liberated 37% of Kashmir earlier and will keep fighting till we liberate rest of the 43% leaving 20% of Aksai-chin. If you don’t accept UN then why don’t you quit as a member or you are there to accept the decisions that benefit your interests only. Whining about the UN resolutions will not make your position any stronger. You have never let any opportunity go to dub the majority Muslims who decided to remain in India as traitors and Pakistani agents. The only agenda is to keep them poor, illiterate, diseased, toiling masses in perpetual misery.

A step forward in the peace talks results in Bombs ripping through a train killing innocent civilians and according to plans Indian Media as always without a blink of the eye blaming it on Pakistan and later to their own disgrace find out the involvement of a serving army officer Col.Purohit (Military Intelligence) whose Chief Investigation Officer Karkare (ATS chief) and his top brass killed in Mumbai attacks (another inside job) under suspicious circumstances.
If India harbors and protects the perpetrators of the heinous crimes on the Samjhota Express and in Malegaon and fails to rein in the Indian Army from blowing up mosques, churches and trains, then it is as bad as the fascists who are in power.
You have dozens of separatist movements going on in your own country and should start worrying about them first.
India is facing enough internal strife and turmoil to endanger its very own integrity that should be taken care of first instead of pointing fingers over and across its borders.


A case of Pot calling the Kettle black.
 
Forget Kashmir for a moment (if any of us can).

Forget MORE THAN HALF the Muslim population which chose to stay with and not give up on their country and their brothers in 1947.

Even forget for a moment Muslim Bangladesh, which came much later.

Forget Muslim NWFP which has never been under the writ of the Pakistani state, and once the army leaves, will remain to never be so, aligning more with their brothers across the border than with the Pakistani state.

Muslim Balochistan never agreed to be part of Pakistan right from the very begining in 1947 ..... and have fought as many as 5 Wars of Independence with the Pakistani state.

Where and on what foundation does the Two-Nation Theory stand brothers?

On what basis did you carve out Pakistan if 160 million Indian Muslims said NO.

On what basis did you carve out Pakistan if 145 million Bangladeshi Muslims said NO.

On what basis did you carve out Pakistan if 12 million Balochi Muslims said NO.

On what basis did you carve out Pakistan if 20 million Muslim NWFP warring tribals said NO.

On what basis did you carve out Pakistan?

And AFTER you have answered ALL of the above, please tell us on what basis you want to carve out Kashmir ......

This is a request by a present-generation Indian to present-generation Pakistanis ..... please help us understand.

Cheers, Doc
 
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Kashmir cannot / will not be "solved". Ever.

Either status quo will be maintained, or somewhere down the line there will be re-unification and re-absorption of Pakistan Occupied Kashmir back into India, as Pakistan and Pakistanis struggle to keep the rest of their country together in the face of large scale violence and anarchy across large swathes of the country.

Many experts have predicted, based on the current scenario and the way things are heading, the very real short to medium term reality of a Pakistan that has lost Balochistan, that never really had Waziristan and the so called NWFP, and that is now in reality and officially what it has and had always been for the elite polity and army since Partition in 1947 - Sindh and Punjab.

The age-old argument/stand by Pakistanis that they were always a different people from Indians per-se and hence deserved a different nation (the so-called Two-Nation theory) was and is therefore no different by extension to the Balochi people's arguably legitimate historical/racial claims of being a completely different people from sub-continental Pakistanis and thus not ever wanting to have gotten dragged into the Pakistani state from the very begining, instead of having their own independent nationhood (with parts of Afghanistan and Iran merged into the same) or merged into Afghanistan (or even Iran ..... depending on a plebiscite of what the Balochi people want for themselves and their right to determine their own future) with whose people they share much more in common ancestry as a people. (howz that for a single sentence OceanX? :))

A coin always has two sides, and I for one would like my country to increasingly make the world aware of the other side of the Kashmir / Balochistan coin as fair return for what Pakistan has done to my country and my people for the past 6 decades.

See what the India has done to develop Kashmir and see how Pakistan has treated Balochistan for the past 60 years ..... the answer and solution should and will be self-evident to all.

The rest as they say will follow.

Cheers, Doc

A bit too much really.
Re absorption back into India...there is no real basis for such a hypothesis.
Have there been continued anti state protests in Pakistani Kashmir?
The same is not applicable in Indian Kashmir so clearly there is resentment against the state in your part of Kashmir which is the result of something much deeper than just Pakistani influence.

Are the Kashmiri Muslims in Pakistan subjected to any sort of victimization or is there any unrest in Pakistani part of Kashmir, the answer here is no.

Speaking from a Kashmiri background, let me be point blank here.
Pakistan's Kashmiris are integral part of Pakistan and don't want anything to do with India.
Even many Kashmiri Muslims on the Indian side are pro Pakistan.

There are states in India other than Kashmir which have no Muslim militant movement but are the hotbed of unrest and terrorist anti state activities...clearly even mighty India has a lot to sort out in the coming years.

Pakistan giving up Kashmir because of unrest in other parts is quite a strange thought and i hope this is not reiterated by your government because then it clearly implies that India is the key beneficiary of any terrorists activity and unrest in Pakistan, as opposed to the official view where India projects itself as a victim in case there is unrest in Pakistan.

Will India give a part of its country to Pakistan if the Naxalites grow out of control?
I mean they are operating in nearly 182 districts and have caused the death of thousands of people...Indian state has acknowledged this movement as the most serious threat to Indian national security...India also has serious problems.

Baluchis chose to become part of Pakistan...it was not forced in any manner. If few rotten eggs and some bad decisions have destabilized Baluchistan, that does not mean that Baluchistan is lost to Pakistan.
Even Akbar Bugti was pro Pakistan and was a very influential Sardar, the fact that later he fought against the state forces does not negate his acceptance of Pakistan earlier.
It was unfortunate that things came to this but it does not mean that Baluchistan did not choose to become part of Pakistan.
On the contrary Baluchistan will be developed heavily in next 2 decades.
Baluchistan may not be a rosy place right now but a lot was done in terms of development by the GOP in last few years, politically there have been serious issues and friction which led to unrest but with passage of time Gwadar will perform and generate revenue for Baluchistan which will address the key concerns.
The population of Baluchistan is small and after the things cool down, just a few right steps in next five to ten years will make it stable again.

Coming back to Kashmir, other than the Pakistan giving up Kashmir idea which to me is quite impossible... I agree that Kashmir will not be solved since India has always been rejecting any plan downright which means that India knows it has all the Kashmir it wants to enjoy an advantage on Pakistan.
This is the reason that the terms of withdrawal as per UN resolution (to facilitate a plebiscite) were not agreed upon by India as stated by UNCIP.
Reason is obvious, because India did not want to lose the advantage in case the plebiscite was in favor of Pakistan.

It may come to be that we recognize the LOC as the boundary and be done with it...however that too seems unlikely.

The steps Musharraf took to control the cross border infiltrations were good and dramatically reduced the violence in order to provide a conducive environment for talks...however India does not want to talk it seems, there is always something which holds the talks...if we tie the talks to each and every thing then there is no hope for peace and so i see not only Pakistan but India too suffer because of such a rigid stance.
The terrorists won in Mumbai because they ensured that India has yet another reason to walk away from talks, leaving Pakistan frustrated and out of options on how to ensure stability.
Mumbai tragedy and the fallout was not at all in favor of Pakistan.
If this was a move by terrorists to cause further instability then India has played into their hands.
The more instability the more the war mongers on both sides can hold sway...this is interest of all terrorists who thrive on conflict whether they are in Pakistan or in India.

There has to be a closure on Kashmir or at least some sort of positive steps like ease of movement within Pakistani and Indian Kashmir so that the Kashmiris have more freedom and interaction in their land.
As long as there is some progress, it shall bode well for all parties except those who want War.

Time will tell how things work out but i hope that we truly achieve a better understanding and regard than the mutual state of mistrust and aggression which has always prevailed.
 
The Solution to Kashmir is clearly stated in all the resolutions passed by UN. United Nations arbitrators have put forward 11 different proposals for the demilitarization of the region, every one of which is accepted by Pakistan, but rejected by the Indian government. It was your Prime Minister Nehru who ran to the UN holding his “dhoti” when the Indians could not handle things on their own. Once the resolution is unexpected and against their will you refuse to accept it. We as Pakistanis still have the courage to look you (a country 5 times our size) in the eye. We have liberated 37% of Kashmir earlier and will keep fighting till we liberate rest of the 43% leaving 20% of Aksai-chin. If you don’t accept UN then why don’t you quit as a member or you are there to accept the decisions that benefit your interests only. Whining about the UN resolutions will not make your position any stronger. You have never let any opportunity go to dub the majority Muslims who decided to remain in India as traitors and Pakistani agents. The only agenda is to keep them poor, illiterate, diseased, toiling masses in perpetual misery.

A step forward in the peace talks results in Bombs ripping through a train killing innocent civilians and according to plans Indian Media as always without a blink of the eye blaming it on Pakistan and later to their own disgrace find out the involvement of a serving army officer Col.Purohit (Military Intelligence) whose Chief Investigation Officer Karkare (ATS chief) and his top brass killed in Mumbai attacks (another inside job) under suspicious circumstances.
If India harbors and protects the perpetrators of the heinous crimes on the Samjhota Express and in Malegaon and fails to rein in the Indian Army from blowing up mosques, churches and trains, then it is as bad as the fascists who are in power.
You have dozens of separatist movements going on in your own country and should start worrying about them first.
India is facing enough internal strife and turmoil to endanger its very own integrity that should be taken care of first instead of pointing fingers over and across its borders.



I can see here that you know a lot about India's problems, i hope you know the same amount about Pakistan problems. Dude you can stop dreaming about Kashmir, you think that if Pakistan will try to even come close to the so called 43%, India will just sit there lol Dont talk like a child brother. Pakistan is already faced with massive issues that have the capability to totally disintegrating the nation, I think you need to think about them deeply before pointing fingers at India. India is a democratic nation where everyone has the right to protest and believe in whatever they want, and even after your so called problems that India faces, we are still the second fastest growing economy and among the 10 biggest in the world, i dont see Pakistan anywhere close there ? Dude i can also give you 100 correct stats about the huge problems in Pakistan but that is of no use other than flaming. Grow up and forget Kashmir, India is there to worry about that. :cheers:
 
Kashmir cannot / will not be "solved". Ever.

Either status quo will be maintained, or somewhere down the line there will be re-unification and re-absorption of Pakistan Occupied Kashmir back into India, as Pakistan and Pakistanis struggle to keep the rest of their country together in the face of large scale violence and anarchy across large swathes of the country.

Many experts have predicted, based on the current scenario and the way things are heading, the very real short to medium term reality of a Pakistan that has lost Balochistan, that never really had Waziristan and the so called NWFP, and that is now in reality and officially what it has and had always been for the elite polity and army since Partition in 1947 - Sindh and Punjab.

The age-old argument/stand by Pakistanis that they were always a different people from Indians per-se and hence deserved a different nation (the so-called Two-Nation theory) was and is therefore no different by extension to the Balochi people's arguably legitimate historical/racial claims of being a completely different people from sub-continental Pakistanis and thus not ever wanting to have gotten dragged into the Pakistani state from the very begining, instead of having their own independent nationhood (with parts of Afghanistan and Iran merged into the same) or merged into Afghanistan (or even Iran ..... depending on a plebiscite of what the Balochi people want for themselves and their right to determine their own future ..... that they definitely do not want Pakistan is however clear to all) with whose people they share much more in common ancestry as a people. (howz that for a single sentence OceanX? :))

A coin always has two sides, and I for one would like my country to increasingly make the world aware of the other side of the Kashmir / Balochistan coin as fair return for what Pakistan has done to my country and my people for the past 6 decades.

See what India has done to develop Kashmir and see how Pakistan has treated Balochistan for the past 60 years ..... the answer and solution should and will be self-evident to all.

The rest as they say will follow.

Cheers, Doc

GREAT POST DOC :cheers:
 
Forget Kashmir for a moment (if any of us can).

Forget MORE THAN HALF the Muslim population which chose to stay with and not give up on their country and their brothers in 1947.

Even forget for a moment Muslim Bangladesh, which came much later.

Forget Muslim NWFP which has never been under the writ of the Pakistani state, and once the army leaves, will remain to never be so, aligning more with their brothers across the border than with the Pakistani state.

Muslim Balochistan never agreed to be part of Pakistan right from the very begining in 1947 ..... and have fought as many as 5 Wars of Independence with the Pakistani state.

Where and on what foundation does the Two-Nation Theory stand brothers?

On what basis did you carve out Pakistan if 160 million Indian Muslims said NO.

On what basis did you carve out Pakistan if 145 million Bangladeshi Muslims said NO.

On what basis did you carve out Pakistan if 12 million Balochi Muslims said NO.

On what basis did you carve out Pakistan if 20 million Muslim NWFP warring tribals said NO.

On what basis did you carve out Pakistan?

And AFTER you have answered ALL of the above, please tell us on what basis you want to carve out Kashmir ......

This is a request by a present-generation Indian to present-generation Pakistanis ..... please help us understand.

Cheers, Doc

Again amazing post Doc, keep up the great work :cheers:
 
I can see here that you know a lot about India's problems, i hope you know the same amount about Pakistan problems. Dude you can stop dreaming about Kashmir, you think that if Pakistan will try to even come close to the so called 43%, India will just sit there lol Dont talk like a child brother. Pakistan is already faced with massive issues that have the capability to totally disintegrating the nation, I think you need to think about them deeply before pointing fingers at India. India is a democratic nation where everyone has the right to protest and believe in whatever they want, and even after your so called problems that India faces, we are still the second fastest growing economy and among the 10 biggest in the world, i dont see Pakistan anywhere close there ? Dude i can also give you 100 correct stats about the huge problems in Pakistan but that is of no use other than flaming. Grow up and forget Kashmir, India is there to worry about that. :cheers:

Before you give me the advise of growing up why don't you talk and defend your arguments with facts and credible sources. Yes we see you growing but unfortunately your country is still nothing but a big slum look at the economical hub for an example. In reply to your 100 stats I can give you 150 so as i advised you earlier you need take care of your own issues that endanger the very own integrity of your country. It is your country who is so scared about Kashmir that they have deployed 600,000 military officials. My reply to all your wishes "The numerous UN resolutions"..... Why are you so scared of a Plebiscite ?

In reply to vsdoc:
I can name Tribes like
Mengal,Murre, Gabol, Bugti, Khetran, Jamali etc etc who not only played a vital role in the struggle for the independence of Pakistan but also joined at their will.
As far as the NWFP is concerned I just want to remind you that these are the same people who fought and liberated the part of Kashmir we have right now.
Kindly post facts and not your wishes or what you have been taught in your Racist Hindu schools....get out of your shell and admit the realities of Gujrat and what the indians are doing to the muslims in Kashmir, more then 50,000 have been killed. Your Military officials die everyday. Kashmir is your integral part and yet they are treated as Kashmiris and not indians .... few days back your very own cricket team refused to play in Kashmir..... You block their fruit exports.... block cell phone networks.... your soldiers kill innocent civilians and rape the female members of the family on a daily basis Yet your media potrays an ideal situation and your politicians lie so blatantly that its not even funny anymore. What I perceive is that the Indians are under serious inferiority complex and a backward society...you keep comparing your progress with Pakistan....a much smaller country Why not with China....?

Your stories would make an extra-ordinary bollywood entertainer but a little too real for the real world.....

The Solution to Kashmir is "UN RESOLUTIONS"

:cheers:
 
Why are you so scared of a Plebiscite ?

I'll tell you why, which is more like stating the obvious

J&K is a Muslim majority state and they have an obvious inclination towards Pakistan which is a declared Islamic State. This is just natural human nature that (birds of a feather flock together).

Muslims in the rest of India are more scattered and intermingled with the local culture whereas Kashmir's have lived in a cluster forever and with such close geographical proximity to Pak , added to the sympathy of Pak with Kashmiri's , plebiside is a gamble in which India only stands to loose.Also, the fact that around 3-4 Lac Kashmiri pundits were flushed out of the State by terrorists or slaughtered like lambs means that any plebeside is devoid of a fair reflection of the lands original inhabitants.

While it's important to respect peoples wishes , a nation cannot entertain the possibility of parting with territorial assets for it.

India does not want to risk losing a state (hence no plebeside). What it can do is make the life of the people easier by giving them more autonomy, but for that purpose it is necessary that Army is 1st withdrawn and for that it's necessary to have Zero militancy.
 
Scenario 4, 5, 6 isn't substantiated enough I guess. The strategic position of Kashmir is that, even if it gets independence, it'd have to be on the side of either India or Pakistan for everyday support. Independent Kashmir can't survive without help of one country at least.
 

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