The Fighter Gap

[Munir]

Remember AQ Khan. I doubt if the US fell for Musharraf's explanation that he was operating without the official sanction of top brass.

India used the Khan network. They used Russian designs so...? It was a matter of posts before Indians would start blaiming.

 

[Sid]

Take the example of US and India, US and India can share the global environment, India may be left as the only major super power in the IOR(Indian Ocean Region), whereas US can tighten its stronghold in other parts of the globe diverting its resources here, leaving this South Asian Region under India. This works well for both the countries. And seeing as US now regularly asks IN for security for its ships crossing the IOR, the above design seems in the offing. Reducing the USN's role here and thereby diverting resources elsewhere. Helping India get anything and everythig that it requires along the way.Kind of the way UK and US are now. Thus both the nations become unchallengeable. Any threat which India deems as very serious will result in US deploying its Navy or other forces here to aid India.

Wouldn't it all be great if it was so simple? India? Superpower? Regional may be but even that would take atleast a century at the current rate. Yeah I know its a wet dream many Indians share; that the US somehow is going to confer a type of alliance on India that is just like what UK and US share or what NATO is all about; my two cents, dream on! People who think about such possibilities have no regard for practical geo-political implications and frankly speaking, dont exactly know the depth of UK and US relationship. If anything, Indians should be first looking up to the Japan-US relationship as a benchmark for now. UK-US is way beyond!

Oh! And not to forget, Pakistan is already a MNNA of the US.

Besides, lets not discount the Chinese; who definitely plan on being in the Indian Ocean .

Now take the example of Russia and India. Russia has absolutely no plans to engage actively in S.Asia. So what if a mutual relationship is forged wherby Russia is active in its relative region and India is active in its relative region, thereby reducing US influence in both places.And an treaty of friendship with which any attack on one nation will cause the other one to join iin the fray. Thus, ensuring both nations remain risk free from any other country.

Russia has NO plans to engage actively in S.Asia, really? What would you term the Russo-Indian relationship that has been built up in all these years? What would you term Russia trying to send overtures to India to buy its aircraft for the MRCA deal or else, by allowing RD-93 engines to be exported to Pakistan for example? Just because Russian navy or for that matter its other armed forces lack the reach to exert influence in the S.Asian region doesn't mean they lack the political/diplomatic resolve and/or leverage to do so.

Unfortunately, your naive view of world politics doesnt hold much ground. Your 'imagination' that Russia be left to be active and thereby dominant in its region certainly doesn't hold true. To this day, Russia and US are slugging it out in the former Soviet and Balkan states to gain leverage on the control of the extensive energy supplies. I dont see how US can simply sit back and let Russia make in-roads.

India and China on the other hand are a more complex design.But like everything else, if there is a basic level of trust b/w the nations, it CAN be achieved.

The geo-political world does not function on 'ifs' and 'buts'. Ground reality is, there certainly can never be a relationship between China and India that would even begin to emulate, lets say, the Canadian-American scenario.

 

[vnomad]

India used the Khan network.

Yeah right. Musharaff outdid himself with that one. And exporting nuclear knowhow isn't the best way to bag a nuclear deal.

 

[Contrarian]

Wouldn't it all be great if it was so simple? India? Superpower? Regional may be but even that would take atleast a century at the current rate. Yeah I know its a wet dream many Indians share; that the US somehow is going to confer a type of alliance on India that is just like what UK and US share or what NATO is all about; my two cents, dream on! People who think about such possibilities have no regard for practical geo-political implications and frankly speaking, dont exactly know the depth of UK and US relationship. If anything, Indians should be first looking up to the Japan-US relationship as a benchmark for now. UK-US is way beyond!

right, im not 'HOPING' for such a deal or whatever, i was simply giving EXAMPLES, read before you type. No1 caers, what the US does or does not do wrt alliances. Facts speak plainer, India is certainly going to be more and more important over the decades. and i'l say this, US is NOT ignoring this fact.

Oh! And not to forget, Pakistan is already a MNNA of the US.

Besides, lets not discount the Chinese; who definitely plan on being in the Indian Ocean .

yes, they defo plan on being in the IO, but we'l be ready.

Russia has NO plans to engage actively in S.Asia, really? What would you term the Russo-Indian relationship that has been built up in all these years? What would you term Russia trying to send overtures to India to buy its aircraft for the MRCA deal or else, by allowing RD-93 engines to be exported to Pakistan for example? Just because Russian navy or for that matter its other armed forces lack the reach to exert influence in the S.Asian region doesn't mean they lack the political/diplomatic resolve and/or leverage to do so.

Unfortunately, your naive view of world politics doesnt hold much ground. Your 'imagination' that Russia be left to be active and thereby dominant in its region certainly doesn't hold true. To this day, Russia and US are slugging it out in the former Soviet and Balkan states to gain leverage on the control of the extensive energy supplies. I dont see how US can simply sit back and let Russia make in-roads.

READ before you type, Rusisia will defo wanna be in this region but as a passive ally, developing or selling technologies with India. It has no plans to actively engage in the IOR. There is basically 1 dominating power in a region, ortherwise there is severe friction, India is already there, developing more for the future, India is Russia's friend. Would Russia want to have friction with India??

The geo-political world does not function on 'ifs' and 'buts'. Ground reality is, there certainly can never be a relationship between China and India that would even begin to emulate, lets say, the Canadian-American scenario.

Now i use YOUR terminology, just b'coz Pakistani's have wet dreams that Indians and Chinese can and will never be friends does not mean it will necessarily be so. We dont want a strategic relationship with china, atleast not now. What will be there inspite of your nay-saying will be the friendhip of India and China eventually. Friendhip does not mean strategic partnership. Friends we can be, everything else is built on it later.

 

[Munir]

Atleast Pakistan and China do not have wetdreams of being accepted as a superpower. I think that is the major difference. Behave.

 

[Contrarian]

Pakistan does not have dreams to become a superpower but China does.
i said Pakistani's have wet dreams that China and India will always be at each other's throats. Explain when you say 'Behave'. no1 said anything to Sid, when he started the 'Indians have wet dreams about alliances with US' thing.

 

[Munir]

Pakistan does not have dreams to become a superpower but China does.
i said Pakistani's have wet dreams that China and India will always be at each other's throats. Explain when you say 'Behave'. no1 said anything to Sid, when he started the 'Indians have wet dreams about alliances with US' thing.

China is a superpower. Whether you like it or not.

India is definately just a "goodweather" friend against China. Nothing more or less.

Behave is pretty clear. How old are you cause you do not understand basic signs?

 

[Contrarian]

China WILL be a superpower, noone is questioning that.
What is being questioned here is the ability of India and China to resolve their differences in the future, and become friends, so to speak.

 

[vnomad]

China is a superpower.

Will be twenty years from now. It is certainly nowhere near, challenging the US today.

 

[Sid]

Will be twenty years from now. It is certainly nowhere near, challenging the US today.

Apparently, it has already begun challenging the US diplomatic clout in the Asian region. Just one example; talks with North Korea were centred around China!

Chinese Navy (PLAAN) subs regularly go on reconnaisance petrol, at times as far as the islands of Japan. Just last week a Chinese sub came within 8km of the US battle group! And instead of sabre-rattling by the US, the US commander talked of more 'coordination' and better communication with the Chinese.

 

[Neo]

Will be twenty years from now. It is certainly nowhere near, challenging the US today.

Pentagon wouldn't share your opinion since everybody there has become more jittery about rapid expansion and modernisation of Chinese forces.

There's a reason why defence analysts in Washington and Langley have been compalining about lack of transparancy in chinese expansion.

The stunt chinese navy pulled out earlier this month by chasing an aircraft carrier undetected should put off some alarms.

We're dealing with a super power here. :ChinaFlag:

 

[circuitbaba]

60 J-10 with SD-10 missle+ F-16C/D with AMRAAM Aim-120C5 r seriously gonnaa tilt the balance....With AMRAAM C5 our f-16 will have the first shot definatley as the R-77 AE(used in Flanker) has lower range then C5....Plus the induction of 160 Jf-17 with SD-10...is enough to atleast defend our skies from IAF. Abt IAF getting F-16 or F-18 .....Russians r putting pressure on IAF by not giving spare parts to India if they go ahead....PLus IAF's 45% inventory consist of age old Mig-21's.....u should read the IAF..CnC S.P.Tyagi's letter to DRDO.....IAf is probbaly gonna buy MIg-29M as the replcaement for 126 MRCA.....Thus the Imblance btw IAF and PAF is not gonna be something out of this world.......Right now i belive that PAF is like a sitting duck butr in around 5 years things r bound to change for the better...I only wish that Pakistani Fc-10 would be able to use AMRAAM Aim-120C5 as we r getting 500 of them which will be more then enough for 36 new F-16's....so i hope we can use them on Fc-10 in future

 

[Munir]

Will be twenty years from now. It is certainly nowhere near, challenging the US today.

And India wants to be accepted as a superpower right now... Even a Bollywood script is more realistic then the opinion that China is not a superpower but India will be...

 

[Contrarian]

no1 is saying that India is a superpower right now...all are saying that we are preparing adequately now to become a superpower later, wrt our military and our economy.

 

[vnomad]

Apparently, it has already begun challenging the US diplomatic clout in the Asian region. Just one example; talks with North Korea were centred around China!

Chinese Navy (PLAAN) subs regularly go on reconnaisance petrol, at times as far as the islands of Japan. Just last week a Chinese sub came within 8km of the US battle group! And instead of sabre-rattling by the US, the US commander talked of more 'coordination' and better communication with the Chinese.

China has become a major regional player but is still far away from challenging the US' supremacy. If it was becoming influencial around Central America, such an analysis might be acceptable. The US has influence thousands of kms away from it. Surely that can't be ignored.
The US commander talked of better coordination. So, that obviously implies that the Americans are treating it as an incident and not as an aggressive act.