The F-16 Offer to India — India Might Refuse It, But Pakistan Can’t Ignore It

[Stephen Cohen]

Let us look at your basic contention the other way around: What can India offer that will make USA offer all the technology that you refer to?

Do you know about Containment ; the policy of containment

When you need to contain your rivals you have to BUILD up other countries around it

USA has to contain China and in Asia it is ONLY India that can be used for this purpose

 

[VCheng]

• A vibrant market with growing middle class which can afford wide range of white goods and services
• An industry which still does not have best of the practices and technology.
• Defense sector opportunities for the dwindling war machine based MIC versus a country which wants rapid industrialisation to support its whole modernisation needs ...
• Energy sector where India has humongous needs and USA has the technology.. example the reactors...
• Climate change and renewable energy cooperation as India is an important pivot for the global climate change norms to succeed.. For clean energy and for India to move away from fossil fuels it needs access to low cost solar power and Nuclear power plants..
• Emerging market opportunities like Infrastructure, Education etc thereby giving substantial more investment opportunities to sustain and increase the pace of development. In turn it gives them substantial returns in a much lesser risk environment due to stability of the country, economy and poltics.
• Geo Political leverage with active strategic and economic relations that India shares with many countries.
• Political stability and following same democracy - fundamentals which are difficult to find in this new age world order.
• A endorsement and support for geopolitical and global order which USA thinks and needs endorsement from India to have legitimacy over USA's actions.

Its some of the thoughts which came immediately in my mind in no particular order as such..

Sir, no offence, but that list is more about USA can do for India rather than the other way around, except for a few platitudes like leverage, co-operation and endorsement, which are plainly not enough compared to what India seems to be expecting in return.

 

[AugenBlick]

Sir, no offence, but that list is more about USA can do for India rather than the other way around, except for a few platitudes like leverage, co-operation and endorsement, which are plainly not enough compared to what India seems to be expecting in return.

What US wants from india , it will never get. We will never be it's lieutenant. Only as far as they can help us.

 

[VCheng]

Only as far as they can help us.

That works both ways, equally. Simple.

 

[waz]

Sir, no offence, but that list is more about USA can do for India rather than the other way around, except for a few platitudes like leverage, co-operation and endorsement, which are plainly not enough compared to what India seems to be expecting in return.

And you go down that road.........

Do you know about Containment ; the policy of containment

When you need to contain your rivals you have to BUILD up other countries around it

USA has to contain China and in Asia it is ONLY India that can be used for this purpose

Agreements can be scrapped by a new government, the US public can be against them, heck a nation might not be able to afford to carry the process on. The only reality you can be assured of is China is right on your doorstep and will continue to be so, along with Pakistan.
Also India can't contain China. With US help it can try, but like I said before nothing is forever.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Agreements can be scrapped by a new government, the US public can be against them, heck a nation might not be able to afford to carry the process on. The only reality you can be assured of is China is right on your doorstep and will continue to be so, along with Pakistan.

The US people are only beginning to realise the threat posed by China

And IN CASE you have not noticed US Foreign policy has been
immune from the Change in Administrations

US foreign policy takes time to be framed and It CHANGES very slowly

We in India have lived through that

We have not arrived where we are in a day

What is happening is not the personal fiefdom of Obama
but a well thought out policy FRAMED by the Professionals and the Bureaucracy
in the State Department AND Pentagon together

Is it any coincidence that India's defence Minister is IN USA on the SAME day
when JOHN KERRY is in DELHI

 

[waz]

The US people are only beginning to realise the threat posed by China

And IN CASE you have not noticed US Foreign policy has been
immune from the Change in Administrations

US foreign policy takes time to be framed and It CHANGES very slowly

We in India have lived through that

We have not arrived where we are in a day

What is happening is not the personal fiefdom of Obama
but a well thought out policy FRAMED by the Professionals and the Bureaucracy
in the State Department AND Pentagon together

Is it any coincidence that India's defence Minister is IN USA on the SAME day
when JOHN KERRY is in DELHI

The US people do not give a hoot about China, bar job losses to China. They certainly are not going to support some war effort thousands of miles away. They've gone past that milestone. Why do you think Trump is making so many waves?
Oh I've noticed US foreign policy, it wanted to continue to support the S.Vietnamese, what happened there? The people had enough.
You can have as many meetings as you want, nothing is forever.

 

[AugenBlick]

The US people do not give a hoot about China, bar job losses to China. They certainly are not going to support some war effort thousands of miles away. They've gone past that milestone. Why do you think Trump is making so many waves?
Oh I've noticed US foreign policy, it wanted to continue to support the S.Vietnamese, what happened there? The people had enough.
You can have as many meetings as you want, nothing is forever.

Agreed.
but India is deeply engaged with American Tech and Finance sectors. We keep ourselves relevant. This is where pak faltered. And we just buy US stuff, we have the manpower to face China ourselves.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

The US people do not give a hoot about China, bar job losses to China. They certainly are not going to support some war effort thousands of miles away. They've gone past that milestone. Why do you think Trump is making so many waves?
Oh I've noticed US foreign policy, it wanted to continue to support the S.Vietnamese, what happened there? The people had enough.
You can have as many meetings as you want, nothing is forever.

The US China Cold war has only just begun

And so has India's GOOD fortune

US people dont want any conflict with China ; but that does nt mean that they
want China to be ALLOWED to dominate all Asian Countries

USA is INDISPENSABLE for Asian Security

And US needs a Strong India to be able to counter and contain China successfully

Why do you think Chinese media have been warning India

BUT the really funny thing is that China has PUSHED INDIA into the Arms of USA

We tried to reason with China for a long time

But they like to bully other nations ; SO BE IT

 

[AugenBlick]

BUT the really funny thing is that China has PUSHED INDIA into the Arms of USA

We tried to reason with China for a long time

But they like to bully other nations ; SO BE IT

Couldn't agree more. same with pak. Too many wasted opportunities(+time and energy) with these countries.

 

[waz]

Agreed.
but India is deeply engaged with American Tech and Finance sectors. We keep ourselves relevant. This is where pak faltered. And we just buy US stuff, we have the manpower to face China ourselves.

The Chinese are deeply engaged in trade all round with the US. Pakistan did falter I agree.
You have the manpower to engage China for a while, face is something that no expert will agree with for obvious reasons.

The US China Cold war has only just begun

And so has India's GOOD fortune

US people dont want any conflict with China ; but that does nt mean that they
want China to be ALLOWED to dominate all Asian Countries

USA is INDISPENSABLE for Asian Security

And US needs a Strong India to be able to counter and contain China successfully

Why do you think Chinese media have been warning India

BUT the really funny thing is that China has PUSHED INDIA into the Arms of USA

We tried to reason with China for a long time

But they like to bully other nations ; SO BE IT

It actually hasn't , it's been in a state of limbo since the Korean war.
Look, the US people do not care about anything that does not threaten them. Many Asian countries have come to realise this and taking appropriate measures, the Japanese for example.
The US for the time being needs a strong India, how long that lasts is anyone's guess. The Chinese media go on about anything, but they are in their right, as the pact is aimed at them, if in a indirect way.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

It actually hasn't , it's been in a state of limbo since the Korean war.
Look, the US people do not care about anything that does not threaten them. Many Asian countries have come to realise this and taking appropriate measures, the Japanese for example.
The US for the time being needs a strong India, how long that lasts is anyone's guess. The Chinese media go on about anything, but they are in their right, as the pact is aimed at them, if in a indirect way.

US policy is Framed by MANY Think Tanks and Senate Foreign Relations Committee
and Many Academics ; Foundations ; Research scholars ; experts etc etc

AND Not by common people who vote
The common people care only for their standards of living

The ONE PRINICIPLE that USA believes in is that it wants Its
Position of being the World's Greatest power remain unchallenged As long as Possible

SO it will frame its policies accordingly that is Help countries which can help USA
in containing China

 

[Centurion2016]

Having good relations with USA is a must in this world

They are the most powertful , influential technological nation on earth.

India will use USA to keep its current growth trajectory on track ie to reach the milstone of 3rd LARGEST GDP on the plant by 2030.

Massive FDI into indian economy and m ilitary is a good thing.

PAKISTANS have bent over backwards for USA they know how valuabl usa alliance can be

 

[waz]

US policy is Framed by MANY Think Tanks and Senate Foreign Relations Committee
and Many Academics ; Foundations ; Research scholars ; experts etc etc

AND Not by common people who vote
The common people care only for their standards of living

The ONE PRINICIPLE that USA believes in is that it wants Its
Position of being the World's Greatest power remain unchallenged As long as Possible

SO it will frame its policies accordingly that is Help countries which can help USA
in containing China

You just repeated the same thing again and I gave you the example of Vietnam, where many policy makers urged the US to stay on, the people didn't. But anyway, my final post.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

You just repeated the same thing again and I gave you the example of Vietnam, where many policy makers urged the US to stay on, the people didn't. But anyway, my final post.

I agree with you on Vietnam ; but that was an exception

We are not talking of Hot Wars here ; there is just a GLOBAL race going on for
power and position

ALL BIG countries are Fighting for a PLACE under the SUN

USA ; Russia ; China ; Europe ; Japan AND India are all part of this
global game for ascendancy

Since China is bent upon bullying India and Japan
it was NATURAL that we teamed up with USA