The enemy and Pakistan Army

[somebozo]

There are alternative interpretations of everything. The Indian "unity in diversity" has been maintained by the spectre of a Pakistani bogeyman. Of course Indians will deny it, but the Indian media has been obsessed by Pakistan phobia, which has now been spiced up with the flavor of the decade, viz. terrorism.

India is replete with ethnic, linguistic, religious and cultural fault lines, any and all of which can be exploited. Just because Pakistan has failed to do so does not mean it cannot be done. Any group of people can be conditioned into a conflict-oriented mindset, be it ethnic, religious or cultural. Any group.



What matters is that we know what we are dealing with. Convincing anyone else is futile, given the West's current love affair with India.

While India has its fault lines it has been doing an end to end work to make these fault lines insignificant therefore, as a result it has become more and more hard to exploit this fault lines by foreign instigators. While Pakistan as a country started off with much better cohesion only to end up identity confused and ethnic groups in alliance with religious zealots waging an unholy war of terrorism on innocent civilians and soldiers.

 

[Joe Shearer]

You not answered my question forget it

What WAS your question? That a similar phenomenon happens in the west and they cannot prevent it, so how can poor little we?

If this is so, you are steppping iinto a minefield. But first, please confirm that this is indeed your question. It would not do to mistake the matter, in view of what is about to ensue

 

[Ticker]

Any amount of twisting the facts by you will not change the truth, and we are way beyond a regional power so it doesn't matter what you say.

yeah sure ...... if aunty had balls she would have been an uncle.

 

[notorious_eagle]

No what I said isnt strange. Its strange that just because there isnt any other country with territorial disputes as much as India (debatable), that India is wrong. It is actually the reverse. India has bad neighbors and despite our best efforts in not pursuing territory, handing over territory etc for the sake of peace, we still get accused of being hegemonic.

I laughed soo hard after reading this, reminded me off Grade 4. We used to have this one kid who everyone hated in the class. He was naturally big so no one messed with him. He was the most greediest SOB i had ever seen, he just wanted everything for himself. If another kid got a new pencil case, he wanted that and would try to get it by force. One day all of us other kids had enough of him, we confronted him and he started crying yelling "I am the only good one here, you all are bad. Why does everyone pick on me".

I think this story suits perfectly here, India is the big kid who has a problem with everyone and wants everything for herself. You need to ask yourself why do all of your neighbours have a problem with you. Its because you bully them around and want everything for yourself. The day you drop this attitude is the day you will have peaceful relations with everyone.

BTW out of the 6 countries that have disputed borders with India, 5 out of them including China, want peace in the region. Only one out of those 6 is too loud and has an entirely distorted and untrue view of history. This doesnt affect India as much as it affects said country.

Off course. You forgot to take into account that India has tried left right and centre to destroy that country and bring her to its knees ever since its independence. That said country wants peace more than India, but that said country won't accept peace terms in line with those that India wants. India wants peace terms in line with those India has concluded with her other smaller neighbours.

BTW the reason that India has so many divisions against Pakistan, is because of Pakistani aggression. In all the four wars that India has fought with Pakistan, it has ALWAYS been Pakistan that has thrown the first punch. Hence the deployments. You have only yourself to blame.

Indeed. India never started the 1971 war by supporting proxy groups inside a sovereign nation, that was an outright violation of UN Charter Article 2(4) but hey who cares. India refused to hold a plebiscite inside Kashmir wilfully knowing that she will be the loose, thus self aspirations of Kashmiris were denied for Indian imperialism. Also by no means was the one who threw the first punch in 1984 when it engaged in an illegal and unauthorized treck in Siachen. I am just stunned how brainwashed you Indians are, this attitude of 'our country can do no wrong' is simply perplexing.

 

[Wickerman]

You can not challenge my identity as Pakistani, because it is engraved in the history since thousands of years. The cradle of IVC is held by Pakistan and therefore Pakistan is the scion of IVC.

Just because you Indians relate it with your Hindu religion does not make it your identity - because the religion and language of IVC has still not been deciphered.

Whereas, your identity is essentially your religion based ideology or mythology, Pakistan's identity is based on its land as well as its religion.

Which essentially raises the mother of all questions - what is Indian identity.

India's identity is not based on just religion. Religion is just a very miniscule part of it. It is based on the unity of diverse religions and ethnic groups and cultures. Unity in Diversity. People in different parts of India follow different traditions, different religions, speak thousands of different languages AND have different identities. But the one common identity that we all share is that we belong to ONE nation - India. Travelling within India to certain parts will give you a cultural shock as if you have travelled to a different country that you are not used to. So no, its certainly not based on religion. Its certainly not based on the IVC. We consider it part of our history and nothing more than that.

Pakistanis should also consider the IVC a part of their history, but you are NOT descendants of the IVC, atleast directly. Not all of you atleast. Again there is no archaeological or genetic evidence that proves this claim. So another piece of falsified history. Islam is your identity, nothing more.

And no I am not "challenging" your identity as a Pakistani, but the so called unity within your country, or rather nationalism is derived from religion and a falsified view of history that none of you share any roots or history with India. Which is not the case.

 

[notorious_eagle]

There are alternative interpretations of everything. The Indian "unity in diversity" has been maintained by the spectre of a Pakistani bogeyman. Of course Indians will deny it, but the Indian media has been obsessed by Pakistan phobia, which has now been spiced up with the flavor of the decade, viz. terrorism.

India is replete with ethnic, linguistic, religious and cultural fault lines, any and all of which can be exploited. Just because Pakistan has failed to do so does not mean it cannot be done. Any group of people can be conditioned into a conflict-oriented mindset, be it ethnic, religious or cultural. Any group.

My friend

You have ended the entire discourse with this post. The arrest of pigeons, donkeys and camels by Indian police testify to whatever you just stated. Astonishing

 

[PlanetWarrior]

India has to be the number 1 enemy of the Pakistani army. If anybody disputes that then they live in dreamland. The aman ki asha concept is just another trade corridor and only a foolish Pakistani would mistakenly identify this as a hand of friendship from India. Looking at all of the issues affecting Pakistan, it is evident that India (most probably via their intelligence service R&AW) does support insurgency in Pakistan. To what extent, that will remain unknown. In my view, the retired Pakistani General hits the nail right on the head. Unfortunately for the Pakistani establishment though, they are currently in a quicksand. It's simply a matter of damned if you do and damned if you don't when it comes to India. Failing to restrict terrorism against India could result in India justifying full support to insurgencies within Pakistan. Restricting terrrorism against India results in one less weapon against India. The list is endless. India in turn has this great strategy of keeping the Pakistani army on its toes at our border which restricts them in their war against insurgency in the North West areas. When India for example buys 10 fighter jets, it stations 8 in areas for strike use against Pakistan and 2 against China. The fact of the matter is that Pakistan is currently losing in this game of chess against India. Whether Pakistan can eventually come up with a grand move is something which the future will decide

 

[Developereo]

While India has its fault lines it has been doing an end to end work to make these fault lines insignificant while Pakistan as a country started off with much better cohesion only to end up identity confused and ethnic groups in alliance with religious zealots waging an unholy war of terrorism on innocent civilians and soldiers.

I fully agree that we have fouled up our own nest with extremist whackjobs and others are taking full advantage of those mistakes. There is a job ahead of us.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

NE:- It is all wrong, We want Status-quo, Pakistan has an 'unfinished core issue with us. Lets make LOC as IB and finish the problems once for all. No trade ..no middling at all. How many takers will be there ion Pakistan?

beg to disagree there mate, your own nationalist murdered your founder for the "crime" of giving away the land of Bharat Mata, now that killer is touted as a true heart & a hero, your extremists dont want status que on the contrary they want the rule from Landi Kotal to Ras Kumari and this attitude is quickly getting support and strength in your military.
whereas Pakistan Army is curbing the Islamists influence and keeping checks at Hizb Tahrir, your terrorist officer who was involved in the bombing of Samjhota express is seen as a hero by your fellow Indians.

 

[VCheng]

I fully agree that we have fouled up our own nest with extremist whackjobs and others are taking full advantage of those mistakes. There is a job ahead of us.

So exactly when would the job be tackled is the more important questions that begs to be asked, Sir.

 

[Ticker]

India's identity is not based on just religion. Religion is just a very miniscule part of it. It is based on the unity of diverse religions and ethnic groups and cultures. Unity in Diversity. People in different parts of India follow different traditions, different religions, speak thousands of different languages AND have different identities. But the one common identity that we all share is that we belong to ONE nation - India. Travelling within India to certain parts will give you a cultural shock as if you have travelled to a different country that you are not used to. So no, its certainly not based on religion. Its certainly not based on the IVC. We consider it part of our history and nothing more than that.

Pakistanis should also consider the IVC a part of their history, but you are NOT descendants of the IVC, atleast directly. Not all of you atleast. Again there is no archaeological or genetic evidence that proves this claim. So another piece of falsified history. Islam is your identity, nothing more.

And no I am not "challenging" your identity as a Pakistani, but the so called unity within your country, or rather nationalism is derived from religion and a falsified view of history that none of you share any roots or history with India. Which is not the case.

Yes there are those Pakistanis who have their linkages with Arabs, Central Asians, Turks etc etc. But large majority of Pakistanis are the sons of the soil and who are decedents of those who lived here since thousands and thousands of years ago. And are the true decedents of IVC people.

So have the Indians who have been here since long, but can not claim the legacy of IVC as their own.

If you call us as Malechhas then most of you probably are Malechhas as well because the Aryans also came from those lands and were foreign origin people - either through Aryan invasion or through Aryan migration or whatever.

Therefore, you Indians have to identify your own identity and you should stop claiming the IVC as only your legacy.

 

[Wickerman]

I think this story suits perfectly here, India is the big kid who has a problem with everyone and wants everything for herself. You need to ask yourself why do all of your neighbours have a problem with you. Its because you bully them around and want everything for yourself. The day you drop this attitude is the day you will have peaceful relations with everyone.

Thats not how it is. Actually Pakistan is like this disturbed kid that sees the boogeyman in the most popular kid in school and finally ends up shooting everyone. Or atleast tried to in this case. The other kids have differences, but those differences are handled effectively. Pakistan is this one insecure kid that doesnt wanna talk, sits in a corner and one fine day loses it. And so far this kid has lost it 3 different times but has been defeated. Thank F* for that.

Off course. You forgot to take into account that India has tried left right and centre to destroy that country and bring her to its knees ever since its independence. That said country wants peace more than India, but that said country won't accept peace terms in line with those that India wants. India wants peace terms in line with those India has concluded with her other smaller neighbours.

Actually no. Pakistan does not want peace. If it did, then it would have demilitarized Azad Kashmir and facilitated a plebiscite. According to the provisions of the UN resolution that Pakistan agreed to.

Indeed. India never started the 1971 war by supporting proxy groups inside a sovereign nation, that was an outright violation of UN Charter Article 2(4) but hey who cares. India refused to hold a plebiscite inside Kashmir wilfully knowing that she will be the loose, thus self aspirations of Kashmiris were denied for Indian imperialism. Also by no means was the one who threw the first punch in 1984 when it engaged in an illegal and unauthorized treck in Siachen. I am just stunned how brainwashed you Indians are, this attitude of 'our country can do no wrong' is simply perplexing.

Yes India supported the Mukthi Bahini. And the fact that 10 million people left Bangladesh in a space of 6 months and ran to India as refugees is probably never talked about in Pakistan. The fact that Operation Searchlight killed hundreds of thousands of Bengalis is again India's fault, obviously not the fault of the Pakistani Army that perpetrated it. If India did anything by supporting the Mukthi Bahini, then it was for a noble cause. For people's freedom. Of course we had a strategic benefit from it. But no we are not angels. We only do what is good for us and there is nothing wrong about that. And also no, the fact that Pakistan launched the first airstrikes on India back in 1971 is also not instigating war in the Pakistani mindset. Nice try.

As for the plebiscite, we can have it as soon as you demilitarize Azad Kashmir as per the provisions of the UN resolution 47. That YOUR country agreed to. The only reason they dont wanna do that, is because the majority in Jammu and Kashmir will actually vote to go with India. Pakistan has known this from day one. So they have ignored the resolution. Hypocrisy at its best.

And 1984, Siachen Glacier was disputed. It was disputed land that India occupied. So no that was not aggression towards Pakistan. It was a strategic move and like I said, we will only do what is good for us strategically. And even if you consider this aggression then so be it. Indian aggression that resulted in not a single shot being fired vs Pakistani aggression that resulted in thousands of deaths. Ill take Indian aggression over Pakistani aggression any day!

And and lastly, we never say "our country can do no wrong". We only say, "our country did not do anything wrong". Atleast when it comes to Pakistan which is what is in discussion here.

Yes there are those Pakistanis who have their linkages with Arabs, Central Asians, Turks etc etc. But large majority of Pakistanis are the sons of the soil and who are decedents of those who lived here since thousands and thousands of years ago. And are the true decedents of IVC people.

So have the Indians who have been here since long, but can not claim the legacy of IVC as their own.

If you call us as Malechhas then most of you probably are Malechhas as well because the Aryans also came from those lands and were foreign origin people - either through Aryan invasion or through Aryan migration or whatever.

Therefore, you Indians have to identify your own identity and you should stop claiming the IVC as only your legacy.

I dont really care what my so called "legacy" is. I am Indian, its impossible for one to go back to that time period and determine who exactly was my ancestor. As such, it can only be considered a part of our history. I dont think anyone in India really gives 2 hoots about whether we are Malechas or Pakistanis are Malechas or whatever. I was talking about Indian identity, which is relatively new. And that identity is based on unity, nothing else. Within India however, people hold on to their own cultures, religions, ethnicities, languages etc.,

 

[illusion8]

No. It is because the Americans have realized that any settlement in Afghanistan can not be attained with Pakistan' support.

I had stated earlier as well that India has been able to generate a limited diversionary effort using Afghan territory against Pakistan by supporting the terrorists. However, their effort beyond a certain level may intrusively confront the American interests.

Though Americans have also utilized such Indian sponsoring to achieve some of their objectives, such Indians actions and efforts would tend to lose support whence the Americans may initiate stability enhancing measures in Afghanistan.

Therefore, Indian efforts by default are restricted due to time and space limitations. Beyond these time and space limitations, Indian sponsoring would hurt the American efforts and would then become counter productive.

The Americans will retain 4-6 bases in Afghanistan as their next objective is full spectrum domination of Eurasian Hinterland and is therefore beyond Afghanistan. For such objective attainment, it is important for Afghanistan to attain a measure of stability. Indian use of Afghanistan as a proxy base for sponsoring terrorism in Pakistan will have to stop at a particular stage.

When the center of gravity shifts to Iran and Central Asia Pakistan would certainly become less prone to attacks from Indian sponsored terrorism. We as Pakistan must therefore remain steadfast in our efforts to maintain and sustain our strategic interests.

All your random BS not withstanding - again how exactly did Pakistan stop India from increasing its influence in Afghanistan?

yeah sure ...... if aunty had balls she would have been an uncle.

exactly right, grow a pair before calling out anyone.

 

[neutral_person]

I laughed soo hard after reading this, reminded me off Grade 4. We used to have this one kid who everyone hated in the class. He was naturally big so no one messed with him. He was the most greediest SOB i had ever seen, he just wanted everything for himself. If another kid got a new pencil case, he wanted that and would try to get it by force. One day all of us other kids had enough of him, we confronted him and he started crying yelling "I am the only good one here, you all are bad. Why does everyone pick on me".

I think this story suits perfectly here, India is the big kid who has a problem with everyone and wants everything for herself. You need to ask yourself why do all of your neighbours have a problem with you. Its because you bully them around and want everything for yourself. The day you drop this attitude is the day you will have peaceful relations with everyone.



Off course. You forgot to take into account that India has tried left right and centre to destroy that country and bring her to its knees ever since its independence. That said country wants peace more than India, but that said country won't accept peace terms in line with those that India wants. India wants peace terms in line with those India has concluded with her other smaller neighbours.



Indeed. India never started the 1971 war by supporting proxy groups inside a sovereign nation, that was an outright violation of UN Charter Article 2(4) but hey who cares. India refused to hold a plebiscite inside Kashmir wilfully knowing that she will be the loose, thus self aspirations of Kashmiris were denied for Indian imperialism. Also by no means was the one who threw the first punch in 1984 when it engaged in an illegal and unauthorized treck in Siachen. I am just stunned how brainwashed you Indians are, this attitude of 'our country can do no wrong' is simply perplexing.

Your whole post is BS beyond belief not even worth refuting. The only thing I will even bother replying to (not sure if it is even worth my 30 seconds to type that) is that Indian leaders never make statements like "Hum ghaas khayenge lekin atom bomb banayenge" (We will eat grass to make the atom bomb) or "Kashmir ke liye 1000 saal India ke saath ladenge" (Will fight 1000 years for Kashmir)

 

[rockstarIN]

beg to disagree there mate, your own nationalist murdered your founder for the "crime" of giving away the land of Bharat Mata, now that killer is touted as a true heart & a hero, your extremists dont want status que on the contrary they want the rule from Landi Kotal to Ras Kumari and this attitude is quickly getting support and strength in your military.
whereas Pakistan Army is curbing the Islamists influence and keeping checks at Hizb Tahrir, your terrorist officer who was involved in the bombing of Samjhota express is seen as a hero by your fellow Indians.

We do not need to showcase pakistan for our armed forces budget, there is China factor.
What you have written above is completely wrong about India, Godse is no hero, the officer who bombed still in jail and not getting support at all. After all any our 'extremist' cross over IB and did anything wrong in Pakistan?

NO. dont play the victim card again

Again, we want status quo... LoC as IB (you did not reply to me on that point). No 26/11 on India again. Thats what Status quo means for us. Pakistan is damn safe so far the above is maintained.