What's new

The End games in Afghanistan: Ultimatum delivered to India 1990:Gen Baig

Joined
May 20, 2011
Messages
5,548
Reaction score
5
Country
United Kingdom
Location
United Kingdom
Our Indian guests on this forum are very keen on posting the threats regularly issued to Pakistan by their generals and politicians and their media. For example famous video of 10 steps for the Annihilation of Pakistan by India media or current mustering in their Media. New threat that Indian wouldn't keep quite if another terror attack happens.

First of all, Pakistan has more proof of others involvement in the terror in Pakistan. The terror spread in the region is the making of these terrorists and Pakistan itself is a victim rather than an aggressor, despite the worldwide propaganda by the West.

The General also narrate an incident of 1990, this incident is enough to open the eyes of uninformed, what would be the consequences of India even trying a little misadventure against Pakistan.

I say, wise up and do not listen to the boosting of your media, your politicians and Generals. Time has changed, Pakistan is rapidly increasing its nuclear arsenal and knowhow including newly acquired miniaturisation of Nuclear weapons, not without reasons. These weapons are there to be used at the right time and the right place, if enemies ever try to take any liberty. Otherwise Pakistan wants to live in peace with its neighbors and these weapons would remain as deterrence.




Pak-US Relations At a Critical Point
Pak-US Relations At a Critical Point” – Hillary Clinton

By General Mirza Aslam Beg


Threat to our national security increased with the occupation of Afghanistan in 2001, and has reached dangerous proportions now, as the defeated forces are seeking the support of “a compliant regime and a military dictator in Pakistan, to provide the fall back position in Pakistan and a guarantee for safe exit from Afghanistan.” In the past it was easy to bring about the Regime Change, with the help of the Army, the judiciary and political parties but the mood is different now.
The deceitful action in Abbottabad and the terrorist raid on Mehran Naval Base, were meant to create condition for Regime Change, but conversely these actions invited very strong reactions from the people, the media, the parliament and the armed forces, which caused deep concern in Washington. Clinton and Mullen, came rushing to Pakistan to mend the damage caused to Pak-US strategic relationship. The critical issue is not the US-Pak relationship, but the targeting of the Pakistani Armed Forces, to malign them, through a well orchestrated media campaign, and to break their unity. A very dangerous move indeed, as Anatol Lieven, the author of the book “Pakistan: A Hard Country” warns: “How American folly could destroy Pakistan, by inducing mutiny in the Pakistan Army. Washington, grotesquely might contribute to the destruction of the state it is trying to save and a historic triumph for extremism. Pakistan’s tragedy would then become one of the entire world.”

The United States and their allies are in a desperate situation in Afghanistan, and need an early exit, which only Taliban can grant, under the condition that the ‘occupation forces must give a definite time-frame for withdrawal.’ It is not 1989, when Mujahideen provided safe exit to the Soviets. The Afghan Taliban now have no trust in Pakistan, or the Americans, who cheated them in 1990 at Geneva and again in 2002 at Bonn, on the matter of power-sharing and the efforts continue even now to keep them out of power. Therefore ‘no safe exit’ and ‘no soft-state’ in Pakistan. So where do the American proceed from here? and what are the choices for Pakistan?
• Pakistan had enough of war on terror, and stands badly bruised and battered, fighting our own people. Pakistan has to find peace with the tribals. Approach them with open arms and an open mind. Do not repeat the deceitful act of killing Maulvi Nek Mohammad, after truce was reached. Go back to the historic 1947 decision of Quaid-e-Azam and hand over the responsibility of defense of our borders to them.
• Find peace with the oppressed and the angry Baloch, and pre-empt the dangerous designs of our enemies, to foment revolt and cessation. The on-going process of pacification must be accelerated to achieve national integration.
• Offer regrets and apology to the Afghans, for joining the American war in 2001, and create space for diplomacy to re-establish friendly relations and facilitate a safe-exit for the occupation forces.
• Let the election process, throw-up new leadership and the democratic system finds its roots. Any attempt to rock the boat now, would be highly dangerous.
• Let the supremacy of the law of the land prevail and punishment metted-out to those who break the law.
• Tell the world that our nuclear assets are safe, as much as safety demands. They are well dispersed and known only to those “who need to know.” Even the users – the Army, Navy and Airforce do not know, where they are kept, but at the time of need, they will be delivered the war-heads, to be embedded with the delivery systems. Our command and control system is one of the best in the world, if not the best. By the Grace of God, ours is the only nuclear programme, in the world, which has never experienced a disaster or a mishap.
The ‘safety’ of nuclear assets as well as ‘deterrence’ are complementary. One relates to its credibility and the physical ability to keep them safe and the other relates to: “the will to use the capability to deter and defeat aggression”. The will to use this capability is ‘a function of command decision, of the person in authority’ as demonstrated in 1990, when CIA, Mossad and RAW had planned to attack our nuclear assets. We received very disturbing signals from own sources and friends in the Middle East. The then Prime Minister, Benazir Bhutto – “the person in authority”, called an urgent meeting of the Nuclear Command Authority, and after due deliberations took following decisions:
• Sent the foreign minister to Delhi, with the message, that if attacked, Pakistanwould retaliate against India, no matter, where the attack came from.
(I.A. Gujral, the former Prime Minister of India, mentions in his book “Matters of Discretion” about our Foreign Minister’s visit on 23 January 1990 and the message delivered, but cleverly relates it to the tension on the cease-fire line, whereas, our army had put the Indians on the defensive there. Ask former GOC 12 Division, Major General Safdar, SJ, to know the facts. Later-on, when Benazir Bhutto visited India, Gujral asked her, whether, she had sent Sahibzada Sahib with the message. She replied, ‘No’. That was politics.)
• A squadron of F-16 fully armed with nuclear weapons was ordered to be ready to strike targets deep in the South, at Trombay. These activities were soon picked-up by the American satellites and Robert Gates came rushing to Pakistan to pacify our leaders. President Ghulam Ishaq Khan cooled him down, andnever again the Nexus, attempted to challenge Pakistan.
It is “the man, behind the gun that matters” – Benazir Bhutto was “the person in authority” behind our nuclear capability and had the courage to take such a bold decision to deter aggression. (I hope our man, Zardari is listening). Then, we had only the F-16s and now we have the submarines, missiles and guns, which can deliver conventional as well as nuclear war heads of one KT to twenty KT yield, upto a range of 30 KMs to 3000 KMs.And this capability is all in all, India specific.
On the night of 1/2 May attack in Abbottabad, two of our F-16s scrambled, but chose not to challenge the American aircrafts providing air cover from across the borders. Rightly so. Our superiority is on ground – the men and missiles and the conventional weapons support. Our men belong to one of the best fighting machine of the world, and the hard core freedom fighters come from our border region and remain undefeated.Based on Men and Missile, we do have a ‘war plan’ to deter and defeat aggression. Let there be no ambiguity about it.
Whether Osama was killed in 2009 or 2011, is immaterial. Sure, he is dead, for whom, the Americans invaded Afghanistan. It is no more necessary therefore to “jointly chase the shadows.” Turn the page, and negotiate peace with the Afghans, who are fighting for their freedom for the last thirty years and have suffered over two and a half million dead and colossal destruction. Guarantee for safe exit and lasting peace is possible only if the invaders and the aggressors such as, Russia, America, European Union, India and Pakistan, agree to pay the War Damages and find a place in the hearts of the Afghans, through massive reconstruction and rehabilitation works. That is the stark reality, to determine the correct level of Pak-Afghan-US relationship, particularly now when the US war machine is stuck in the hard-rocky sands of Afghanistan. Admiral Patreaus did cry- out after experiencing this hardness: “The reality about Afghanistan is, it is all hard, at all times.”
Veterans Today | Military Veterans and Foreign Affairs Journal – VA – Veterans Administration
 
.
Sent the foreign minister to Delhi, with the message, that if attacked, Pakistanwould retaliate against India, no matter, where the attack came from.

exactly the sign of a crazy leader , :tdown: Kind of reinforces the view , Pakistan's leaders are its worst enemies .....
 
.
the first part is of a utopian's analysis having unusual solutions & the last part is a retarded persons analysis using nukes wherever possilbe...lol

i like this part

A squadron of F-16 fully armed with nuclear weapons was ordered to be ready to strike targets deep in the South, at Trombay. These activities were soon picked-up by the American satellites and Robert Gates came rushing to Pakistan to pacify our leaders. President Ghulam Ishaq Khan cooled him down, andnever again the Nexus, attempted to challenge Pakistan.
:cheesy:
 
.
Our men belong to one of the best fighting machine of the world, and [B]the hard core freedom fighters come from our border region and remain undefeated[/B].

your veteran general is revealing your secret army..!!
No wonder your best fighting machines can't even control them. damn they are invincible...
 
.
I didn't even bother to read that piece in the OP because it was written by none other than that screwball, Aslam Beg!! :P It's beyond comprehension why our Pakistani friends make it a point to refer us to articles written by such clods as Aslam Beg and that mad hatter Hamid Zaid! They're all over Pak TV too as if there is no one else better in Pakistani think-tanks!!

Beg would be better off as a Mullah in some obscure place in Waziristan. He can teach his hare brained concepts to the newly recruited Taliban there. It will do everyone a favor as his tactics will surely lead them to doom! :cheesy:
 
.
Our Indian guests on this forum are very keen on posting the threats regularly issued to Pakistan by their generals and politicians and their media. For example famous video of 10 steps for the Annihilation of Pakistan by India media or current mustering in their Media. New threat that Indian wouldn't keep quite if another terror attack happens.

First of all, Pakistan has more proof of others involvement in the terror in Pakistan. The terror spread in the region is the making of these terrorists and Pakistan itself is a victim rather than an aggressor, despite the worldwide propaganda by the West.

The General also narrate an incident of 1990, this incident is enough to open the eyes of uninformed, what would be the consequences of India even trying a little misadventure against Pakistan.

I say, wise up and do not listen to the boosting of your media, your politicians and Generals. Time has changed, Pakistan is rapidly increasing its nuclear arsenal and knowhow including newly acquired miniaturisation of Nuclear weapons, not without reasons. These weapons are there to be used at the right time and the right place, if enemies ever try to take any liberty. Otherwise Pakistan wants to live in peace with its neighbors and these weapons would remain as deterrence.

Boasting that would be .
 
.
Time has changed, Pakistan is rapidly increasing its nuclear arsenal and knowhow including newly acquired miniaturisation of Nuclear weapons, not without reasons. These weapons are there to be used at the right time and the right place, if enemies ever try to take any liberty.
Original Post By crankthatskunk.



Here’s something that may deflate your grandiose boast…

Any use of even tactical nukes by Pakistan will invariably result in a massive riposte by India with a counter city strike.

Next. How many big cities are in Pakistan? 9.

Next. How many nuclear establishments in Pakistan? 16

Next. How many nukes does India have? Approx 100.

Now that means 4 nuclear bombs per city and nuclear establishments.

Do you know what happened to Hiroshima, a fairly large Japanese city when struck with a nominal 20kt yield atomic bomb in WWII? Obliterated!

What will happen to a Pakistani city when 4 atomic bombs are dropped on it? Obliteration x 4 = zilch!

Wither Pakistan? Well, you get the point. Therefore even thinking with your swaggering bluster that your tactical nukes would win you the war against India is plain churlish. Nukes are not meant to be used. They are only a deterrent. Period.
 
. .
the first part is of a utopian's analysis having unusual solutions & the last part is a retarded persons analysis using nukes wherever possilbe...lol

i like this part

:cheesy:

Well what he said about 1990 had been collaborated by another General, who is also a nemesis of Indians, General Hamid Gul. Yeah, yeah, I know, you dislike anyone who is in your face so to speak, and show you India's true worth.

As for his analysis, wait and see, the signs are there if you have the understanding, Americans have to go, they know it, if you keep dreaming wouldn't change the facts on the ground.

Once they gone, what would happen to your soldiers,workers and your investment? Your political elites know too. Who is going to protect them? The "Mayor of Kabul" Karzai? He cannot even get out of his own compound without security provided by the Americans.

Post Americans scenario in Afghanistan is known to any reputable analyst. When I say, reputable analyst I do not mean people who have buried their heads in the sand or traitors like Sethi and Yahoodbhai. Read the material of any impartial non-governmental analyst one who has not sold his soul to the devils of mainstream media, or not in bed with the Zionists. All independents write similar analysis.

There were some, who keep asking repeatedly, which two Superpowers are defeated in Afghanistan? All I can say, if one lived in cave for 30 years, only he doesn't know the names of the two superpowers, otherwise every knowledgeable person knows the facts.
 
.
There were some, who keep asking repeatedly, which two Superpowers are defeated in Afghanistan? All I can say, if one lived in cave for 30 years, only he doesn't know the names of the two superpowers, otherwise every knowledgeable person knows the facts.

There were some who said that "Pakistan successfully stopped 2 superpowers, but not sure why they are afraid to name them. May be they're also sleeping in the cave for 30 years.
 
.
There were some, who keep asking repeatedly, which two Superpowers are defeated in Afghanistan? All I can say, if one lived in cave for 30 years, only he doesn't know the names of the two superpowers, otherwise every knowledgeable person knows the facts.
Well said CAVEMAN, bang on target.
 
. .
Original Post By crankthatskunk.



Here’s something that may deflate your grandiose boast…

Any use of even tactical nukes by Pakistan will invariably result in a massive riposte by India with a counter city strike.

Next. How many big cities are in Pakistan? 9.

Next. How many nuclear establishments in Pakistan? 16

Next. How many nukes does India have? Approx 100.

Now that means 4 nuclear bombs per city and nuclear establishments.

Do you know what happened to Hiroshima, a fairly large Japanese city when struck with a nominal 20kt yield atomic bomb in WWII? Obliterated!

What will happen to a Pakistani city when 4 atomic bombs are dropped on it? Obliteration x 4 = zilch!

Wither Pakistan? Well, you get the point. Therefore even thinking with your swaggering bluster that your tactical nukes would win you the war against India is plain churlish. Nukes are not meant to be used. They are only a deterrent. Period.

He he , if ever there was a senseless post this is it.

First of all, please find out how many of your missiles are working. Forget about the 100 nuclear warhead, first see if you can make 100 missiles to work.:lol:

Secondly, your own scientist say, your atomic test was a sham, it failed like so many of your missiles. Therefore, question is are you geniunely a nuclear state? And please don't convince me, convince your own scientists who was involved in the test.

Thirdly, probably it escaped you, would you be allowed to launch 100 missiles? You also only have similar numbers of big cities, therefore, the scenario is more realistic for you, because unlike yours, Pakistani missiles are tested and proven, they are also inducted with Pakistani military. Don't oblige me to produce your own media reports. I am sick and tired of posting them again. But a little homework for you wouldn't go missing.
 
.
He he , if ever there was a senseless post this is it.

First of all, please find out how many of your missiles are working. Forget about the 100 nuclear warhead, first see if you can make 100 missiles to work.:lol:

Secondly, your own scientist say, your atomic test was a sham, it failed like so many of your missiles. Therefore, question is are you geniunely a nuclear state? And please don't convince me, convince your own scientists who was involved in the test.

Thirdly, probably it escaped you, would you be allowed to launch 100 missiles? You also only have similar numbers of big cities, therefore, the scenario is more realistic for you, because unlike yours, Pakistani missiles are tested and proven, they are also inducted with Pakistani military. Don't oblige me to produce your own media reports. I am sick and tired of posting them again. But a little homework for you wouldn't go missing.

The short range Hatf-1 and Hatf-2, which are apparently of Pakistani design and construction, were developed by the Space and Upper Atmosphere Research Commission (SUPARCO). These missiles seem to have proven a disappointment, due probably in no small measure to their modest range, and do not appear to have entered operational service.

The Shaheen series of solid-propellant missiles are imports from China by the Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission (PAEC), which is also responsible for Pakistan's plutonium bomb program. The Chinese M-11 missile was obtained from China in the early 1990s, and tested with considerable publicity in mid-1999. The longer range Shaheen-I and Shaheen-II appear to correspond to the Chinese M-9 and DF-15, respectively, though there is presently no solid evidence that Pakistan has obtained either missile.

More recently, the A.Q. Khan Research Laboratories, which is also responsible for Pakistan's uranium bomb program, has imported and tested the North Korean Nodong missile under the name Ghauri. Imports of the longer range Taepodong missiles may also be under consideration.

The Hatf-2A system represents a substantial divergence away from the Haft-2. It is most likely an imported Chinese M-11 (CSS-7). It has a range of 300 km and can carry a wide range of warheads including nuclear weapons. At present, Haft-2A missiles are deployed throughout the Pakistani-Indian border and are generally hidden in caves or other terrain features that obscure the missile and its mobile launching system from detection.[5] Like the Haft-2A, the Haft-3 (Ghaznavi) is derived from the Chinese M-11. It has a range of 290 km and carries a nuclear or conventional payload. Most effective against large, fixed targets, the Haft-3 easily outdistances most battlefield weapons and is ideal for striking bases, airfields, and cities.[6]
Like its predecessors, the Haft-4 (Shaheen-1) also appears to have been based on Chinese design. It has a range of 750-800 km and is designed to destroy strategic assets with a nuclear or conventional warhead. Although its accuracy is insufficient to destroy a military target, the Haft-4 is easily capable of striking key facilities, such as an airports, oil refineries, shipyards, ports, or factories. If equipped with submunitions, it seems likely that it could be deployed against a military column, though the limited accuracy makes this less practical. The range on the Hatf-4 allows it to reach major targets within India and the mobile launch vehicle gives it a high degree of mobility and flexibility.[7]
Medium-Range Ballistic Missiles
Pakistan’s medium-range arsenal includes the Haft-5 and Haft-6 missiles. The Haft-5 (Ghauri-1) is believed to be based upon technology derived from the North Korean No-dong 1 and 2, although this is denied by North Korea. It also appears that the Hatf-5 might have been developed in conjunction with Iran, as the Iranian Shahab-3 missile appears extremely similar to the Hatf-5 both in appearance and capabilities. It is reliably reported that all three countries cooperated extensively since 1993. The Haft-5 has a range of between 1,300 and 1,800 km and carries a 760 kg payload. Its main drawback is its limited accuracy, which means that the only truly effective use for the Hatf-5 would be striking civilian areas, most likely with a low yield nuclear weapon. A variant, the Haft-5A (Ghauri-2), is a longer ranged version of the Hatf-5, developed by increasing the length of the motor assembly and using improved propellants.



In addition to its nuclear brinksmanship with India, Pakistan engages in dangerous proliferation behavior. First and foremost, Pakistan serves as an intermediary for the larger proliferation of Chinese nuclear and missile technology. In June 2004, for instance, it was revealed that Libya had received the blueprints for a Chinese nuclear warhead via A. Q. Khan’s Pakistani proliferation network.[12] The previous March, it was reported that Pakistan, along with China, had surpassed North Korea as the chief missile proliferators to rogue Middle Eastern nations such as Iran and Syria.[13] Although Pakistan officially claims to adhere to the general principles of nonproliferation, at present it has not yet signed the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR), which prohibits countries from trading in ballistic missile technology, especially those missiles with a range of 350 kilometers or greater.[14]


The difference is we make our missiles and you beg for yours from your chinese masters

MissileThreat :: The Threat From Pakistan
 
.
The short range Hatf-1 and Hatf-2, which are apparently of Pakistani design and construction, were developed by the Space and Upper Atmosphere Research Commission (SUPARCO). These missiles seem to have proven a disappointment, due probably in no small measure to their modest range, and do not appear to have entered operational service.

The Shaheen series of solid-propellant missiles are imports from China by the Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission (PAEC), which is also responsible for Pakistan's plutonium bomb program. The Chinese M-11 missile was obtained from China in the early 1990s, and tested with considerable publicity in mid-1999. The longer range Shaheen-I and Shaheen-II appear to correspond to the Chinese M-9 and DF-15, respectively, though there is presently no solid evidence that Pakistan has obtained either missile.

More recently, the A.Q. Khan Research Laboratories, which is also responsible for Pakistan's uranium bomb program, has imported and tested the North Korean Nodong missile under the name Ghauri. Imports of the longer range Taepodong missiles may also be under consideration.

The Hatf-2A system represents a substantial divergence away from the Haft-2. It is most likely an imported Chinese M-11 (CSS-7). It has a range of 300 km and can carry a wide range of warheads including nuclear weapons. At present, Haft-2A missiles are deployed throughout the Pakistani-Indian border and are generally hidden in caves or other terrain features that obscure the missile and its mobile launching system from detection.[5] Like the Haft-2A, the Haft-3 (Ghaznavi) is derived from the Chinese M-11. It has a range of 290 km and carries a nuclear or conventional payload. Most effective against large, fixed targets, the Haft-3 easily outdistances most battlefield weapons and is ideal for striking bases, airfields, and cities.[6]
Like its predecessors, the Haft-4 (Shaheen-1) also appears to have been based on Chinese design. It has a range of 750-800 km and is designed to destroy strategic assets with a nuclear or conventional warhead. Although its accuracy is insufficient to destroy a military target, the Haft-4 is easily capable of striking key facilities, such as an airports, oil refineries, shipyards, ports, or factories. If equipped with submunitions, it seems likely that it could be deployed against a military column, though the limited accuracy makes this less practical. The range on the Hatf-4 allows it to reach major targets within India and the mobile launch vehicle gives it a high degree of mobility and flexibility.[7]
Medium-Range Ballistic Missiles
Pakistan’s medium-range arsenal includes the Haft-5 and Haft-6 missiles. The Haft-5 (Ghauri-1) is believed to be based upon technology derived from the North Korean No-dong 1 and 2, although this is denied by North Korea. It also appears that the Hatf-5 might have been developed in conjunction with Iran, as the Iranian Shahab-3 missile appears extremely similar to the Hatf-5 both in appearance and capabilities. It is reliably reported that all three countries cooperated extensively since 1993. The Haft-5 has a range of between 1,300 and 1,800 km and carries a 760 kg payload. Its main drawback is its limited accuracy, which means that the only truly effective use for the Hatf-5 would be striking civilian areas, most likely with a low yield nuclear weapon. A variant, the Haft-5A (Ghauri-2), is a longer ranged version of the Hatf-5, developed by increasing the length of the motor assembly and using improved propellants.



In addition to its nuclear brinksmanship with India, Pakistan engages in dangerous proliferation behavior. First and foremost, Pakistan serves as an intermediary for the larger proliferation of Chinese nuclear and missile technology. In June 2004, for instance, it was revealed that Libya had received the blueprints for a Chinese nuclear warhead via A. Q. Khan’s Pakistani proliferation network.[12] The previous March, it was reported that Pakistan, along with China, had surpassed North Korea as the chief missile proliferators to rogue Middle Eastern nations such as Iran and Syria.[13] Although Pakistan officially claims to adhere to the general principles of nonproliferation, at present it has not yet signed the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR), which prohibits countries from trading in ballistic missile technology, especially those missiles with a range of 350 kilometers or greater.[14]


The difference is we make our missiles and you beg for yours from your chinese masters

MissileThreat :: The Threat From Pakistan

And the point is?????????
 
.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom