The economic terrorism policies of Punjab Government

[Dubious]

but the difference between you and me is that you will criticise everything and I will pick n choose different projects of Federal Government. For me it is not N League, it is Federal Government and I reserve the right to support or oppose any decision by the government.

No you wont criticize....I criticize what needs to be criticize...and THAT is PRIORITIES! I have criticized it in every wake from juridical, commerce/ economy to even pathetic development of overspending on a metro station and getting the yields of a cheaper one which would also flood!

Human beigns known as Pakistanis have not been the priority of this govt...

Their only priority has been roads which even a minister of highway can do so why give these people anything above that?

Federal means ALL OF PAKISTAN...they have failed in that field miserably!

Noon League has always been considered pro-business community government that is why they have strong roots in Pakistani politics.

Being considered and reality are 2 different things...

When people have been screaming and shutting their textile business you were silent
When traders got on road coz of withholding tax thing you were supporting the tax though many cant afford it

Jub un par parri thee tub aap ko noon mein koi galti nai nazar ari thee...
Magar ab apne pay hi pari hai ...

You see this is the problem with everyday Pakistani...They enjoy tamasha and dont learn...or even try to see the other side of the coin

However, ONLY when they fall in the tamasha do they find everything else which they were supporting with full heart wrong!

They have taken some great measures such as eliminating taxes from trades across the cities otherwise if you know what used to happen in Pakistan, you might die laughing out loudly. But they certainly did help business communities grow and gain the confidence of traders.

Eliminating taxes? But introducing a new set? How is that something great?

I forgive the £5 you owe me but please pay up £50!

 

[xyxmt]

OK basically I am pi**ed off because of Punjab Government since last 2 years and I would like to discuss the matter with rest of you to see if the similar situation is faced in other provinces.

When I came to Pakistan last year, my uncle was worried about the crazy step of Punjab government after they announced to slash the price of sugar and cooking oil by about 200 rupees and those traders who had bought the containers of oil and sugar were forced to cut the price. It was like you buy for 2600 rupees per bag and sell it for 2400 rupees and he was always worried about the raid of food authority who might seal his business as if he is selling illegal drugs.

Now when I came to Pakistan, my chachu is worried and having sleepless nights after he told me that he purchased or imported Iranian Asphalt from somewhere, paid custom duty, taxes and everything and now the Government has imposed ban on selling Iranian asphalt as they are preferring the asphalt from their local manufacturers which sells for approximately 5000 rupees more expensive per barrel/drum.

Now he is worried that if the government come to know that I still have stocks of Iranian asphalt imported only last week, his entire consignment might be sealed by the government despite the fact that he paid all the legal taxes and transportation charges to bring it over in my city.

Is this a kind of joke by the Federal/Punjab government or they are too fuc**d off to make a proper policy. Why not just raise taxes on Iranian asphalt to such a level where it becomes more expensive than local asphalt so the traders are discouraged to import it from Iran and they can legally consume the existing stockpile of Iranian Asphalt. I know it might encourage smuggling in that case but it is the government's responsibility to cap the smuggling.

Similar is the story for some of the other business I know... To me it sounds like we are selling illegal drugs.

Its part of doing business, you loose some you gain some. Did your uncle ever complained when he bought sugar at 2400/bag and all of sudden price went up to 3200/bag...let me answer it for you, no he didnt even mentions it. Everywhere; but more so in Pakistan due to special interest; govt business policies change time to time.

 

[Faiez]

Its part of doing business, you loose some you gain some. Did your uncle ever complained when he bought sugar at 2400/bag and all of sudden price went up to 3200/bag...let me answer it for you, no he didnt even mentions it. Everywhere; but more so in Pakistan due to special interest; govt business policies change time to time.

the party claims to be capitalist and pro-free market and continuously interferes in the markets.....this is hypocrisy....

 

[Jango]

They can't control the prices, they will suddenly have a dream and slash prices to unbearable level

Janab hamara poora mulk hi aisay chalta hai.

Suddenly have a dream, make a Metro. SUddenly have a dream, make a bridge or flyover or a road or whatever. No prior thought process, no studies, just the will and ego of a single man.

 

[Hyde]

Its part of doing business, you loose some you gain some. Did your uncle ever complained when he bought sugar at 2400/bag and all of sudden price went up to 3200/bag...let me answer it for you, no he didnt even mentions it. Everywhere; but more so in Pakistan due to special interest; govt business policies change time to time.

The sudden rise of price in commodities in a agricultural friendly nation is also a failure of GoP in my opinion. Ok here is the brief procedure of what happens, you will not accept the reality but I know somewhere in your heart you will accept my argument.

Lets suppose a Sugar Factory of Mandi Bhauddin purchases sugarcane from the farmers and their net cost of product is 285 rupees. They make 40 containers of sugar everyday and wants to sell all of them on the same day as they never want to stock it. They sell 40 containers everyday with price of 5 rupees profit per bag. So they basically sell it for 2590 rupees per bag. The distributors will buy from them for that price and bring it over to their warehouses and the transportation charges will cost them another 5 rupees. So their net purchase costs them 2595 rupees and they don't want to stock the sugar either so they will sell it for 2600 rupees with 5 rupees per bag profit including the cost of running the business, labour cost, electricity and everything.

Now all of a sudden The Government will announce that the price of sugar is fixed at 2400 rupees per bag. The manufacturers will cry as the stated price is cheaper than the cost of production, the distributors will cry as the cost of purchase is higher than selling price and if caught they will be fined "lakhs" of rupees and might need to face imprison. The small shopkeepers will also cry as they can't pay from their own pocket... everything will be messed up and there will be public strikes taking place everyday until Government decides to review the case and settle the price to almost no-profit no loss ratio. Sometimes the government will provide subsidy to reduce the price and sometimes they will provide subsidy to their own selected retail stores (cash-n-carry's) but overall everybody will be fearful of potential raid as they simply cannot sell at the asking price set by the government.

What the government should do in my opinion is to control the prices and change the price in gradual steps so the business is not making irregular profit or losses and not fearful of being caught by the food authority. Similar is the case for other commodities I am just giving one example with hypothetical prices

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About Asphalt this is how it goes

January 1: You buy asphalt from Iran
Jan 3: You pay custom and import asphalt - fulfil legal requirement
Jan 4: You receive it
Jan 5: Government bans sale of Iranian asphalt and decides to only sell asphalt produced by local companies (national refinery) that is 5000 rupees more expensive per drum so that local industry or their loved ones might tap the benefit out of it.

So whomsoever is found selling it might be subject to imprisonment or the entire consignment will be sealed and possessed by the government unless you decide to pay bribe to the government officers and make sure they don't come close to you.

What they should do is, impose ban on further imports or raise the taxes to make it economically unwise decision to impose from Iran. It is the worst example of incompetency to ban it over night and whatever stocks these middle class people have are forced to sell like illegal drugs

 

[xyxmt]

The sudden rise of price in commodities in a agricultural friendly nation is also a failure of GoP in my opinion. Ok here is the brief procedure of what happens, you will not accept the reality but I know somewhere in your heart you will accept my argument.

Lets suppose a Sugar Factory of Mandi Bhauddin purchases sugarcane from the farmers and their net cost of product is 285 rupees. They make 40 containers of sugar everyday and wants to sell all of them on the same day as they never want to stock it. They sell 40 containers everyday with price of 5 rupees profit per bag. So they basically sell it for 2590 rupees per bag. The distributors will buy from them for that price and bring it over to their warehouses and the transportation charges will cost them another 5 rupees. So their net purchase costs them 2595 rupees and they don't want to stock the sugar either so they will sell it for 2600 rupees with 5 rupees per bag profit including the cost of running the business, labour cost, electricity and everything.

Now all of a sudden The Government will announce that the price of sugar is fixed at 2400 rupees per bag. The manufacturers will cry as the stated price is cheaper than the cost of production, the distributors will cry as the cost of purchase is higher than selling price and if caught they will be fined "lakhs" of rupees and might need to face imprison. The small shopkeepers will also cry as they can't pay from their own pocket... everything will be messed up and there will be public strikes taking place everyday until Government decides to review the case and settle the price to almost no-profit no loss ratio. Sometimes the government will provide subsidy to reduce the price and sometimes they will provide subsidy to their own selected retail stores (cash-n-carry's) but overall everybody will be fearful of potential raid as they simply cannot sell at the asking price set by the government.

What the government should do in my opinion is to control the prices and change the price in gradual steps so the business is not making irregular profit or losses and not fearful of being caught by the food authority. Similar is the case for other commodities I am just giving one example with hypothetical prices

-----------------------

About Asphalt this is how it goes

January 1: You buy asphalt from Iran
Jan 3: You pay custom and import asphalt - fulfil legal requirement
Jan 4: You receive it
Jan 5: Government bans sale of Iranian asphalt and decides to only sell asphalt produced by local companies (national refinery) that is 5000 rupees more expensive per drum so that local industry or their loved ones might tap the benefit out of it.

So whomsoever is found selling it might be subject to imprisonment or the entire consignment will be sealed and possessed by the government unless you decide to pay bribe to the government officers and make sure they don't come close to you.

What they should do is, impose ban on further imports or raise the taxes to make it economically unwise decision to impose from Iran. It is the worst example of incompetency to ban it over night and whatever stocks these middle class people have are forced to sell like illegal drugs

your traffic is moving in one direction only, All I said is that these stupid policies of govt which are to appease the public before election and later to appease the business community after the election causes prices to move in both directions, sometimes traders/mill owners/small shop owners makes tons sometime they loose tons...but you only hear crying foul when they loose tons, you dont hear a complain when they make tons not because of their hard work but because of govt's policies to appease a section of society.

 

[Hyde]

your traffic is moving in one direction only, All I said is that these stupid policies of govt which are to appease the public before election and later to appease the business community after the election causes prices to move in both directions, sometimes traders/mill owners/small shop owners makes tons sometime they loose tons...but you only hear crying foul when they loose tons, you dont hear a complain when they make tons not because of their hard work but because of govt's policies to appease a section of society.

That's because you have not bothered to read my post.

The question is not about just profit or loss. The question is about the use of unnecessary force, making the right business illegal to support personal or preferential rivals, putting traders under the risk of trial, unnecessary penalties and consequently promoting corruption.

If the business is generating undue profit or loss it is the weak policies of the government. Yes the traders do incur irregular profit at times but does it justify the force by the government to make them sell less than the cost of production? Else they will be imprisoned, penalised or heavily fined. If the matter was about just simple profit or loss, it could have still been unacceptably understood but the matter is dictatorship mindset and haunting the business community with fear of unethical action.

Also each year, the government has to shamefully embarrassed before the traders association after they realise the stupidity of their earlier imposed decision and what do they come up with? More subsidies for factories so that the price could be brought down and fixing the price to slightly above than the cost of production so everybody can take at least something back home. So do this craziness when you know it is impracticable.

 

[xyxmt]

That's because you have not bothered to read my post.

The question is not about just profit or loss. The question is about the use of unnecessary force, making the right business illegal to support personal or preferential rivals, putting traders under the risk of trial, unnecessary penalties and consequently promoting corruption.

If the business is generating undue profit or loss it is the weak policies of the government. Yes the traders do incur irregular profit at times but does it justify the force by the government to make them sell less than the cost of production? Else they will be imprisoned, penalised or heavily fined. If the matter was about just simple profit or loss, it could have still been unacceptably understood but the matter is dictatorship mindset and haunting the business community with fear of unethical action.

Also each year, the government has to shamefully embarrassed before the traders association after they realise the stupidity of their earlier imposed decision and what do they come up with? More subsidies for factories so that the price could be brought down and fixing the price to slightly above than the cost of production so everybody can take at least something back home. So do this craziness when you know it is impracticable.

I read your post and I am in agreement with you on this, problem is you did not get my point.

 

[Hyde]

in another words, a shopkeeper with assets of worth 5 lakh rupees might be forced to buy a tin of oil for 950 rupees and sell at 750 rupees. Why would he do that in the first place? If he doesn't sell it, he saves money but then what would he do to run his household?

If the shopkeeper sells at 955 to earn 5 rupees, he is at the risk of Government sealing his shop and may fine him say 500,000 rupees which he will take ages to pay off.. (fine depends on your financial condition though).

 

[Bouncer]

When I came to Pakistan last year, my uncle was worried about the crazy step of Punjab government after they announced to slash the price of sugar and cooking oil by about 200 rupees and those traders who had bought the containers of oil and sugar were forced to cut the price. It was like you buy for 2600 rupees per bag and sell it for 2400 rupees and he was always worried about the raid of food authority who might seal his business as if he is selling illegal drugs.

My family has an agriculture background. I am sorry but it seems that your uncles are really bad at business. Pakistan's agri market is tightly controlled and these price manipulations are normal. Either your uncle started this business days before this happened or he really doesn't know what is going on in the market. These changes are normally expected in the market and people freeze their stocks days in advance.

Now when I came to Pakistan, my chachu is worried and having sleepless nights after he told me that he purchased or imported Iranian Asphalt from somewhere, paid custom duty, taxes and everything and now the Government has imposed ban on selling Iranian asphalt as they are preferring the asphalt from their local manufacturers which sells for approximately 5000 rupees more expensive per barrel/drum.

I do not know much about asphalt business, but again this is Pakistan we are talking about where anything can be sold anywhere. If you are telling me that a trader is scared that the Government might confiscate his illegal wares, I would congratulate the nation!!

Again, I am not sure but generally these restrictions are implemented via import bans or import duties. So if a product is already in Pakistan, I don't think your uncle should be worried if he has the right paperwork. And since you mentioned "he purchased or imported Iranian Asphalt from somewhere", would you care to elaborate where this somewhere is? Last I checked, most of the Iranian products in Pakistan (oil, tiles, toileteris etc) are smuggled. Your chachu jan might have been duped.

Punjab government is far from perfect. But your complaints are not valid, IMO.

 

[Hyde]

My family has an agriculture background. I am sorry but it seems that your uncles are really bad at business. Pakistan's agri market is tightly controlled and these price manipulations are normal. Either your uncle started this business days before this happened or he really doesn't know what is going on in the market. These changes are normally expected in the market and people freeze their stocks days in advance.

They are in the business since generations, don't worry they are full aware about what they are doing.

I am not sure but generally these restrictions are implemented via import bans or import duties. So if a product is already in Pakistan, I don't think your uncle should be worried if he has the right paperwork.

Exactly this is how it is supposed to be, but I wish the GoP was so straight forward.

And since you mentioned "he purchased or imported Iranian Asphalt from somewhere", would you care to elaborate where this somewhere is? Last I checked, most of the Iranian products in Pakistan (oil, tiles, toileteris etc) are smuggled. Your chachu jan might have been duped.

Punjab government is far from perfect. But your complaints are not valid, IMO.

Somewhere means other big traders who imports in bulk from Iran and sells to distributors in Pakistan (mostly based in Karachi).

Again I would repeat, we are in this business since 1970s and know its fully legal (my dad also used to do the same business but he stopped doing that business to avoid any business clash between the families and so did my chachu stopped doing other business which my dad used to do before retirement). There is no question of getting smuggled, The NHA (National Highway Authority) is fully aware of the whereabouts of this type of asphalt. It is just recently that the GoP imposed a ban to prefer local market so that they can sell it for higher price and make some money.

 

[war&peace]

Punjab and Sindh are the most mismanaged provinces. In Sindh, we have a Pharaoh's classmate as CM while Punjab is being run by serial killers and psychopaths; namely Shahbaz Shareef and Rana Sana-ullah. Both have strong support of Punjabi Talibans, excel in corruption of all sorts, enjoying sucking blood of humans especially children, women and old men. The recent addition to their badges is pedophilia (kasur incident). What else can we expect from these psychopaths?

 

[Viper0011.]

That's because you have not bothered to read my post.

The question is not about just profit or loss. The question is about the use of unnecessary force, making the right business illegal to support personal or preferential rivals, putting traders under the risk of trial, unnecessary penalties and consequently promoting corruption.

If the business is generating undue profit or loss it is the weak policies of the government. Yes the traders do incur irregular profit at times but does it justify the force by the government to make them sell less than the cost of production? Else they will be imprisoned, penalised or heavily fined. If the matter was about just simple profit or loss, it could have still been unacceptably understood but the matter is dictatorship mindset and haunting the business community with fear of unethical action.

Also each year, the government has to shamefully embarrassed before the traders association after they realise the stupidity of their earlier imposed decision and what do they come up with? More subsidies for factories so that the price could be brought down and fixing the price to slightly above than the cost of production so everybody can take at least something back home. So do this craziness when you know it is impracticable.

If you read the first post, the OP is blaming the government for miss-calculations on his family's end. If businessmen without understanding or appropriate research, just throw money into something, what would happen? High risk, chances of failure. I know some investors here, who work with their family members and market dealers to invest into Pakistan and buy and sell commodities, they've done very well, similar to what's reported through Bloomberg, etc.

In business, you win and lose money. I've lost several thousands in the stock market since just last month. Did I see the market going down like this? NO, should I cry about it? Hell No. Like a man, I faced the consequences that shiit, I lost a lot of money. Nothing I can do, hopefully the market will recover soon and I might get some back.

In Pakistan's case, 99% of the businesses and the millionaires have become who they are, by avoiding and pure, stealing taxes. So, I am sorry someone took a loss, it was probably a SMALL fraction of the tax that wasn't paid for decades.

And as of today, with ALL this stuff going on, Pakistanis STILL don't want to pay taxes. They'd rather pay the money in bribes every year, than paying Taxes. Its a fact.

In the US, after everything is said in done, you pay about 40-50% tax if you count everything at the end of the year. In Pakistan, people pay 4-5% Tax and still complain and bit*ch about the government's interference. If everyone paid their fare share of taxes and Pakistan was collecting the revenue close to what they needed to, their won't be a government intervention.

People should pay taxes because it supports their future and their country. These are useless threads without a dollar worth of benefit to the reader. Bottom line is, PLEASE pay your taxes so your country can advance without aid and loans!!

 

[Hyde]

If you read the first post, the OP is blaming the government for miss-calculations on his family's end. If businessmen without understanding or appropriate research, just throw money into something, what would happen? High risk, chances of failure. I know some investors here, who work with their family members and market dealers to invest into Pakistan and buy and sell commodities, they've done very well, similar to what's reported through Bloomberg, etc.

In business, you win and lose money. I've lost several thousands in the stock market since just last month. Did I see the market going down like this? NO, should I cry about it? Hell No. Like a man, I faced the consequences that shiit, I lost a lot of money. Nothing I can do, hopefully the market will recover soon and I might get some back.

In Pakistan's case, 99% of the businesses and the millionaires have become who they are, by avoiding and pure, stealing taxes. So, I am sorry someone took a loss, it was probably a SMALL fraction of the tax that wasn't paid for decades.

And as of today, with ALL this stuff going on, Pakistanis STILL don't want to pay taxes. They'd rather pay the money in bribes every year, than paying Taxes. Its a fact.

In the US, after everything is said in done, you pay about 40-50% tax if you count everything at the end of the year. In Pakistan, people pay 4-5% Tax and still complain and bit*ch about the government's interference. If everyone paid their fare share of taxes and Pakistan was collecting the revenue close to what they needed to, their won't be a government intervention.

People should pay taxes because it supports their future and their country. These are useless threads without a dollar worth of benefit to the reader. Bottom line is, PLEASE pay your taxes so your country can advance without aid and loans!!

No idea how you brought the tax phisolophy and stock trading in simple businessman's life. Now if a simple shop owner who was earning bread and butter by selling commodities on his shop with small profit of 1-5% per item is incurring heavy losses due to bad policies of the government I don't know how it translates to your reply of Stock market crash and people not paying taxes. He is a tax payer, can't say if he pays in full or not but FBR certified tax payer since I have remembered.

The problem is, every business I meet is crying... it is not about selective business. It is due to unfriendly policies leading to loss of business assets which is not beneficial for the government either.