The Eagle and the Dragon - The Roman and Chinese Empire

[Brainsucker]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-villagers-descended-from-Roman-soldiers.html

Cai Junnian's green eyes give a hint he may be a descendant of Roman mercenaries who allegedly fought the Han Chinese 2,000 years ago

If my memory serve right, there were a group of soldiers (maybe a legion or something) that traveled to China after the Rome lost to a Kingdom in a war. I can't remember the name of the kingdom. Is it Parthia? Or maybe something else. The General was able to return to Rome, but his soldiers were not as lucky as him. They were stranded and wander until they arrived in China. But even if it's China, it's still around Xinjiang area, I think.

 

[yantong1980]

If my memory serve right, there were a group of soldiers (maybe a legion or something) that traveled to China after the Rome lost to a Kingdom in a war. I can't remember the name of the kingdom. Is it Parthia? Or maybe something else. The General was able to return to Rome, but his soldiers were not as lucky as him. They were stranded and wander until they arrived in China. But even if it's China, it's still around Xinjiang area, I think.

Roman lost legion of Charrae, commanded by Crassus get defeat by Greco-Iranian kindom of Parthia. Some Chinese record Han army encountered group of 'hun' peoples with 'fish-scale' formation that similar with Roman testudo formation. Long ago I also saw show in Chinese television about small remote village in China that some of their people has 'Caucasian' trace like blond hair, skin etc and they had ancient Roman grave nearby.

 

[MarkusS]

Roman lost legion of Charrae, commanded by Crassus get defeat by Greco-Iranian kindom of Parthia. Some Chinese record Han army encountered group of 'hun' peoples with 'fish-scale' formation that similar with Roman testudo formation. Long ago I also saw show in Chinese television about small remote village in China that some of their people has 'Caucasian' trace like blond hair, skin etc and they had ancient Roman grave nearby.

do you guys know more about that? Because never heared about one of our legions going china? Only know about smaller expedition troops

 

[Brainsucker]

do you guys know more about that? Because never heared about one of our legions going china? Only know about smaller expedition troops

It's still a mystery until now. The speculation come from a Han dynasty record. A writing about the attack of a Han army to a Xiong Nu (Hun?) fortress called Zhizhi city. There they encountered a group of Xiong Nu Soldiers who use a fish scale formation to fight the aggressor. The record said that these group of soldiers fight differently from the other Xiong Nu. As they form a very discipline infantry formation. Unlike the usual Xiong Nu who fight like barbarian, and solely depend on their horse.

There are two version of speculation here.
The first one said that the fish scale formation soldiers were a Roman Mercenary. They were the survivor of the Roman - Parthia war. (maybe captured by Parthia and sent into their east border) And then because something that we don't know involve in the Zhizhi war.

The other said that the fish scale formation soldiers were the descendant of Alexander the Great army who still embrace their old tradition. Thus use their ancestor's art of war to fight against the Han army.

 

[Nilgiri]

I dont know about india. Do you have informations about roman / indian relations?

The links flourished under the Gupta empire (one of golden ages of India) and Roman Empire....and before Gupta empire, the various other kingdoms in India (esp in the South where there was much spices, pearls, diamonds, ivory etc)

In fact valuable trade with Rome financed much of the Gupta empire early expansion in the Indian subcontinent as they moved from the Gangetic plain to the coastal port areas. This of course was when Rome was somewhat past its prime (300 AD onwards)

You can check the underlying sources at wiki (wiki itself has a decent summary):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Roman_trade_relations

 

[faithfulguy]

The links flourished under the Gupta empire (one of golden ages of India) and Roman Empire....and before Gupta empire, the various other kingdoms in India (esp in the South where there was much spices, pearls, diamonds, ivory etc)

In fact valuable trade with Rome financed much of the Gupta empire early expansion in the Indian subcontinent as they moved from the Gangetic plain to the coastal port areas. This of course was when Rome was somewhat past its prime (300 AD onwards)

You can check the underlying sources at wiki (wiki itself has a decent summary):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Roman_trade_relations

The Wikipedia article started out stating... "Roman trade in the Indian Subcontinent "

Everyone agree that India was a geographical expression till the British arrived.

 

[Nilgiri]

The Wikipedia article started out stating... "Roman trade in the Indian Subcontinent "

Everyone agree that India was a geographical expression till the British arrived.

You dont even know where the word Bharat comes from troll....or what the Mauryan empire was.

 

[Shotgunner51]

@Nilgiri @faithfulguy
Both of you are respectable posters, perhaps you can continue to debate in another relevant thread? For the time being let's go back to topic in this thread, thanks!

 

[Gibbs]

I dont know about india. Do you have informations about roman / indian relations?

Speaking about ancient Ceylon (Sri Lanka) was known as Taprobana to the Romans and the first diplomatic relations were started around (41-54 AD) during the reign of Claudius in Rome. Pliny had described the event.. After that the Roman emperor received Bhatika Abhaya (BC 22 to 7 AD) the ambassador of the Sinhalese kings to Rome as a permanent representative

http://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/1999/1999-08-08.html

 

[AndrewJin]

Speaking about ancient Ceylon (Sri Lanka) was known as Taprobana to the Romans and the first diplomatic relations were started around (41-54 AD) during the reign of Claudius in Rome. Pliny had described the event.. After that the Roman emperor received Bhatika Abhaya (BC 22 to 7 AD) the ambassador of the Sinhalese kings to Rome as a permanent representative

http://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/1999/1999-08-08.html

Ceylon is a well-known name here....锡兰（xi lan)

 

[Gibbs]

Ceylon is a well-known name here....锡兰（xi lan)

I bet it derived from that name or vise versa

This is the Ptolemy's world map of Ceylon, first century CE, in a 1535 publication. Notice how detailed it is.. Both Romans and the Greeks had emissaries to the Sinhalese kings and Tabrobana was a important trading partner

 

[AndrewJin]

I bet it derived from that name or vise versa

This is the Ptolemy's world map of Ceylon, first century CE, in a 1535 publication. Notice how detailed it is.. Both Romans and the Greeks had emissaries to the Sinhalese kings and Tabrobana was a important trading partner

@Gibbs @Godman

In the Book of Han ( finished in 111 CE during Eastern Han Dynasty, recording the history of Western Han Dynasty)), SL was called 已程不国 (yi cheng bu guo)

In the Book of Liang (finished in 635 CE during Tang Dynasty, recording the history of Liang Dynasty), SL was called the kingdom of lion 狮子国 （shi zi guo)

In the Song Dynasty, SL was called 细兰 (Xi lan)

Later in Ming, called 锡兰 （xi lan).

Now the tea from SL is commonly called Xi Lan Hong Cha...

 

[Gibbs]

In the Book of Liang (finished in 635 CE during Tang Dynasty, recording the history of Liang Dynasty), SL was called the kingdom of lion 狮子国 （shi zi guo)

Wow thanks for that info brah.. The lion flag is considered one of the oldest in the world along with the Danish and Welsh flags.. It had been the standard of the Sinhala kings since 486 BC .. Thats probably reason the lion have been the symbol of the Sinhalese civilization and now the symbol of modern multi ethnic Sri Lanka


Anuradhapura period

Kandyan period

The flag of the republic

 

[AndrewJin]

Wow thanks for that info brah.. The lion flag is considered one of the oldest in the world along with the Danish and Welsh flags.. It had been the standard of the Sinhala kings since 486 BC .. Thats probably reason the lion have been the symbol of the Sinhalese civilization and now the symbol of modern multi ethnic Sri Lanka


Anuradhapura period

Kandyan period

The flag of the republic

Awesome!

 

[HeinzG]

@Gibbs @Godman

In the Book of Han ( finished in 111 CE during Eastern Han Dynasty, recording the history of Western Han Dynasty)), SL was called 已程不国 (yi cheng bu guo)

In the Book of Liang (finished in 635 CE during Tang Dynasty, recording the history of Liang Dynasty), SL was called the kingdom of lion 狮子国 （shi zi guo)

In the Song Dynasty, SL was called 细兰 (Xi lan)

Later in Ming, called 锡兰 （xi lan).

Now the tea from SL is commonly called Xi Lan Hong Cha...

Actually Portuguese word Ceilao was a corruption of the the Chinese word for Sri Lanka AFAIK.