The delegation of Ulema E Karam calls on PM Imran Khan

[PakAlp]

One problem is that people view it as some last resort career for kids who aren't able to become something like a doctor or engineer. So you end up with a good chunk of people who aren't very passionate about what they are & also they aren't the "best" minds of society.

I'm not saying less brainy people shouldn't aim to become an imam or scholar if they want to devote their lives to Islam. That's still good, that can still produce good natured imams and scholars. But if you're putting people on a conveyor belt to become a leader of society (because essentially that's what imams and scholars are to their local community) and those people just view it as a job to earn some money then that's just not good.

Yea I agree, many people i know who are abit slow in the head, meaning the family knows he wont be a successful businessman or a doctor so they make him a molvi. Now he is loving it .
In Pakistan I know relatives who tried to become molvis because their parent knew they are not much for doctors or engineers.

One problem I see is what is the difference between a molvi and a Alim. For example anybody from PDF can become a molvi in a mosque. You just need a month to learn how to lead a jamaat, how to do Jummah Salah and if your confident and have a good voice you will be employed at any mosque. But an Alim is somebody who has mastered the Islamic sciences although these days becoming Alim has become easy, do a 3 year course and your qualified to give fatwas. A true Islamic scholar should know the Islamic sciences aswell as secular sciences. This would probably take you 10years. This is why the traditional Islam is the correct way as the top scholars have already done the research. Just like scientists done the research. In the modern world we have people starting from scratch and this leads to confusion and chaos.

Look at facebook and YouTube. You have people with million of followers but I can assure you they are not qualified and they make major mistakes. They are only famous because of how they teach and because of their voice and style. People just love them. These are the same people who mock peers or dodgy peers but they themselves are dodgy. This same way our older generation fell for the dodgy peers. We think of them as people who the peers have made fool off but the reality is we are bigger fool than them, we follow the youtube and Facebook molvis, each year a new channel pops up or new facebook page and everytime it's a different attractive style. These people definitely do their market research

 

[Menace2Society]

 

[SQ8]

I see muftis, not ulema.

Fazlur Rehman, Mufti Muneeb, Tariq Jameel, Tahir Ashrafi and many others are the favorites of the ruling elite and provide credence to the establishment and let it continue with its hypocritical rule

So going by your logic if they are responsible for everything then Pakistan made nukes because of them which no other Muslim country has been able to, Pakistan developed various ballistic and cruise missiles so those should also be attributed to them..

Proof for the last paragraph?

 

[war&peace]

I see muftis, not ulema.


Proof for the last paragraph?

The proof lies in the post I replied to. You should read both posts to get the context.

 

[PakAlp]

I can see one Ulema in the photo who called a certain molvi arrested for terrorism as a Shaheed when he died and even called him Tu Zinda hei.

The same person is now sitting with our prime minister. Not saying it is Imran Khans fault but just pointing out that those who support terrorist and read their funeral prayers and call our armed forces as non martyrs are sitting with our ministers and leaders and we all pray that terrorism will be dealt with effectively.

 

[proud.pakistani]

Collectively the "Ulema E Karam" is the face of why Pakistani society is backward, primitive and why we can't make bridges, build motorways, build Su-35s, Hind helicopters, Agosta submarines, etc. China, Russia, America do not have this curse. Neither does Turkey.

Who stopped you from building bridges or exploring new technologies? Your so-called enlightened moderation gave us thousands of dead bodies in Karachi. Who supported MQM? Did Ulmah e Karam kill those innocent people? Who burned the Baldia factory?

Don't forget Pakistan was created in the name of Islam and these Ulmah e Karams are the protectors of the ideological boundaries of this nation.

I don't support Maulana Fazlur Rehman and his recent actions. He may cause a civil war in Pakistan if the state doesn't deal with him with iron hands. But why blame the whole community because of a few bad eggs?

 

[Goenitz]

They need an education first.
The stupidest child is sent the Madrassa and then he teaches us the religion. What can we expect from stupid

bro same is true for any generally any teaching institution.. the one who doesn't get job, becomes a teacher. It takes time and they get refined... plus, scientifically weak student doesn't mean he cannot excel in social sciences/arts/religious studies... the drop out of my era are now CSS officers.. the toppers straight went to job in AWC, KRL etc and lower GPA holders are doing PhDs now in US,UK,China,Italy etc

 

[SQ8]

The proof lies in the post I replied to. You should read both posts to get the context.

a “scientist” who was infected by this quasi religious plague of Mullahism and started looking for ways to create electricity from Jinn is well known.

shaheen missile are useless as long as these individuals exist to ruin scientific and logical thought.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Until the government details what is the acceptable practice of Islam and what is not, you will have absolute anarchy.

Every little uneducated, undisciplined false scholar will make takfir on rival uneducated, undisciplined false scholars.

There is no judge to deal between them, there is control over the spread of false ideas under the guise of Islam.

Those educated, eloquent, and patriotic religious leaders of this country have large followings in this country, but they need government support to replace charlatans.

Investigations should be launched into every masjid, madrassa, organization attached to religion to weed out anti-Pakistan, political agents, and regressive elements.

 

[Menace2Society]

Just remove religion from politics and these narcissists can do whatever they want and nobody will care.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

So much for being accommodating. One rule for people like yourself and another rule for those who you don't like.

Those who are not prepared to even accomdate a milimetre need wiping out like Nazis were wiped out in WW2. They people are the enemies of Muslims.

 

[Numerous]

Yea I agree, many people i know who are abit slow in the head, meaning the family knows he wont be a successful businessman or a doctor so they make him a molvi. Now he is loving it .
In Pakistan I know relatives who tried to become molvis because their parent knew they are not much for doctors or engineers.

One problem I see is what is the difference between a molvi and a Alim. For example anybody from PDF can become a molvi in a mosque. You just need a month to learn how to lead a jamaat, how to do Jummah Salah and if your confident and have a good voice you will be employed at any mosque. But an Alim is somebody who has mastered the Islamic sciences although these days becoming Alim has become easy, do a 3 year course and your qualified to give fatwas. A true Islamic scholar should know the Islamic sciences aswell as secular sciences. This would probably take you 10years. This is why the traditional Islam is the correct way as the top scholars have already done the research. Just like scientists done the research. In the modern world we have people starting from scratch and this leads to confusion and chaos.

Look at facebook and YouTube. You have people with million of followers but I can assure you they are not qualified and they make major mistakes. They are only famous because of how they teach and because of their voice and style. People just love them. These are the same people who mock peers or dodgy peers but they themselves are dodgy. This same way our older generation fell for the dodgy peers. We think of them as people who the peers have made fool off but the reality is we are bigger fool than them, we follow the youtube and Facebook molvis, each year a new channel pops up or new facebook page and everytime it's a different attractive style. These people definitely do their market research

Yeh I agree there is a difference between an molvi or an alim. Yeh I saw a complaint about this before that alim courses in the UK are becoming less and less rigoursless, I don't know the case with Pakistan though tbh since I don't know how long they learn and how/whether the courses are changing slowly.

I don't agree with saying that a true scholar is someone who knows both islamic sciences as well as secular sciences though. I have heard of past scholars who for example learnt medicine but their main area of expertise was the islamic sciences. However I've also heard of past scholars who decided that secular sciences weren't for them and they stuck to just Islamic sciences, I believe Imam Nawawi is one such individual and he is counted as a great amongst the Muslims. So we can't just assume someone who doesn't have a secular degree or something isn't a great scholar. Having a secular degree can benefit them but it's not really a requirement for becoming a great scholar.

Yeh I've seen people being fooled by youtubers or good speakers before.

 

[PakAlp]

No personal attacks please. We should reply by giving our point of views.

 

[Numerous]

No, sorry. You are satan dressed as a Muslim.

Satanic people like you are the cause why I am sat in goraland, full of gay lovers, alocohol on every street and sin on every corner. Was it not for you types I would be living in Pakistan.

No you're sat in england because you choose to sit here.

Bro don't give me that Satan talk. I know who you are and you know nothing about me. You know how the guys on here hate on people who set up dodgy businesses in Pakistan and don't pay taxes, what would they think if they read up about your companies in the UK? There are two whole google pages devoted to news stories about how the UK government keeps having to get involved and fine or ban you or something else. They even called you a dishonest individual. You hide behind a mask on here.

Just like those bad youtube speakers can sometimes get away with things due to their eloquence, you can get away with looking good on here due to fluent english. But I know exactly who you are and you're lucky that for some reason I don't share these articles concerning you but in future I might. So next time, when you choose to take the mick out of someone's social class or religion, think twice.

So don't your pin your position in life on me, you only have yourself to blame for things you don't like. In real life you give us Pakistanis a bad name.

 

[Sabretooth]

Don't gather all the Ulema of Pakistan in one bunch. The Diesel and his kind and many others are the regressive ones but there are still those who understand the importance of modern education and scientific thought. The Ulema in this meeting with IK belongs to Ahle-Sunnah-Wal-Jamat. They were gathered there on the invitation of Dr. Noor-Ul-Haq Qadri who is the Federal Minister of Religious Affairs and Inter-faith Harmony and also an Alim-E-Deen. He belongs to the Ex-Fata Khyber District (Landikotal) and is one of the very few Ph.D. scholars in the National Assembly.