The debris of Kamra Attack dumped on three Junior Officers

[GR!FF!N]

how many saab 2000 awacs are in service?
and how much damage was inflicted on these aircraft?

most likely one damaged and one completely destroyed..

 

[erwineugene]

They are not Taliban , they are the raw agents we sent to destroy ur planes so that we could make up for the past shortcomings that we missed to take down during previous conflicts...

now
can some one summarize the changes that were made following the investigation and trails.
if only one is completely destroyed what is the condition of the remaining two now, are they flying?

 

[Dillinger]

@Oscar Still no clarity on how many AEW&C platforms got knocked over, it was two birds scrapped by your estimate/info, yes?

 

[SQ8]

@Oscar Still no clarity on how many AEW&C platforms got knocked over, it was two birds scrapped by your estimate/info, yes?

Three were hit, one total... two left in bad shape. Possibly only one capable of being airworthy again.

 

[SQ8]

The other possibility is that these army guys may have simply been talking loosely all over the place, and nefarious elements happened to glean useful info from them. But that is very unlikely, because to execute such an audacious attack, they would have needed very specific and detailed information. Inside help seems to be the only way.

Let me put it this way, pre Faisal base.. it was as easy to walk into a PAF base as if it was your maami's house. Even after that, there was little done apart from adding more guards and beefing up main gates. Once Kamra happened the PAF finally woke up to it. Otherwise you could have gotten into bases like PAF Murid by jumping over the fence and walking into the base.

 

[Liquidmetal]

we are going round and round in circles on this issue.

The PAF has no balls to own up to this debacle, so we need honest brokers to reveal the truth.

Why would these officers collude with the TTP or some other group to destroy these assets. The only ones to gain were the Indians but would these men have colluded with RAW? So many mysteries no answers.

 

[janon]

we are going round and round in circles on this issue.

The PAF has no balls to own up to this debacle, so we need honest brokers to reveal the truth.

Why would these officers collude with the TTP or some other group to destroy these assets. The only ones to gain were the Indians but would these men have colluded with RAW? So many mysteries no answers.

India does stand to gain, but India is not the only one that stands to gain.

Who is pakistan presently, actively at war with? They have lots to gain as well, and they are the prime suspects. Whether it was an AEWAC plane or bomber doesn't really matter, the TTP is waging assymetric war - that means degrading the state's military capability in any way possible, by wreaking maximum economic damage. The billions that will have to be spent to buy more AEWACs are billions that cannot be used in the fight against TTP or BLA.

Blowing up a tank or APC might help them win a small battle - but blowing up precious assets hit the enemy (in this case, the pak military machine) much harder. Think from the POV of the conventionally weaker side, and you wil understand that. Not to mention morale, which is extremely important in such conflicts. For both sides.

Sure, it could have been a brilliant operation by RAW - but Occam's Razor demands that we accept the simpler explanation. If what @Oscar says about the state of security in mil bases was true, then the TTP would not even have needed Indian help.

Another point - yes, the Eyries were excellent force multipliers for PAF - but was it enough of a nightmare for India to have launched a covert strike to disable them? It's not like these assets make PAF invincible, the IAF has these toys as well.

 

[EasyNow]

What is the motivation for insiders to divulge info to TTP? Money, or sympathy with the ideology and goals of the TTP?

And is that really true, that these officers have been accused of aiding the enemy? That sounds like medium or high treason, usually punishable by death in military law.

I dont think it is for money, more likely they were threatened and exthorted. Unfortunately in today's world it is very difficult for a junior to escape the Taliban's reach. They are doing an incredibly difficult job and as soon as things go wrong, they are the first ones to be blamed.

 

[SQ8]

Another point - yes, the Eyries were excellent force multipliers for PAF - but was it enough of a nightmare for India to have launched a covert strike to disable them? It's not like these assets make PAF invincible, the IAF has these toys as well.

That being said, both the P-3Cs and the Erieye's are not assets that the TTP would usually target. Their modus operandi has always been more localized and more human cost orientated. So these targets are beyond TTP as such. But the TTP aren't all independent(just as there are handlers to certain sub-outfits in the LeT ,if that helps move balance along) and are willing to take assistance/perform tasks based on financing(which they use to further their own cause). So while Occam's Razor would apply if this was an officers housing or mess.. here it simply doesnt seem to be.. simple.

 

[ali_raza]

Unfortunately there is no accountability in our military, hence they have no need to to disclose to the tax payers, the country what has happened to these national assets. There is a strong whiff of a cover up, to cover the loss of up to three of Erieye systems. Since the attack no one has seen any Erieyes in the air around our bases, many of which are in and around major urban centers, also we have only seen one Erieye in ISPR media packages. Therefore it is entirely feasible to conclude 1 completely destroyed (that is confirmed) 2 badly damaged possibly destroyed too. This is a loss of over 1 billions dollars. Which effing moron puts all eggs in one basket. This is the height of professionalism, laughable, and now low rank officers are on trial, when the heads of many senior officers should have been put on a platter for the nation.

The really sad thing is that we have not learnt, when the Mehran base was attacked we should have recognised that our enemies were targetting our eyes and ears, yet we had the most relaxed base security in the world. lazy and incompetent aholes, Remember how Kamra had been attacked before and so no on thought of checking all the perimeter security. And our base security is still very relaxed, have you seen the images of those helicopters in the FoB sitting as sitting ducks. Wait till they get blown by a 100 dollar rpg round.

very true indeed

 

[ali_raza]

jitny abhi tak taliban se bachy hoy hain

lol bilkul sahi

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

I dont think it is for money, more likely they were threatened and exthorted. Unfortunately in today's world it is very difficult for a junior to escape the Taliban's reach. They are doing an incredibly difficult job and as soon as things go wrong, they are the first ones to be blamed.

[/SIZE]

Or religiously motivated... extremist brainwashed turds... and i personally think we do have such turds in our forces specially the airforce.

And we know how ttp is being used by our enemies to target the state.. financing,training,sheltering ttp to be used to against the Pakistani state> lot of extremist nutjobs to do the job.

 

[janon]

That being said, both the P-3Cs and the Erieye's are not assets that the TTP would usually target. Their modus operandi has always been more localized and more human cost orientated. So these targets are beyond TTP as such. But the TTP aren't all independent(just as there are handlers to certain sub-outfits in the LeT ,if that helps move balance along) and are willing to take assistance/perform tasks based on financing(which they use to further their own cause). So while Occam's Razor would apply if this was an officers housing or mess.. here it simply doesnt seem to be.. simple.

They have attacked a few very high profile targets. The GHQ, the Sri lankan cricket team, the police training center at lahore. Good for moral, more than military value.

But that apart, as I said, it does make sense for them to target high value assets. How many JF-17s would have that money lost paid for, which could have bombed TTP later? Besides, in a war of attrition, bleeding the enemy economically is the only way insurgent/guerilla groups can eventually win. It's not like they can fight pitch battles with the enemy and hope to take over pakistan. If the TTP is serious about taking over pak and overthrowing the constitution, winning by attrition is their only possible way. Taking out an Eyrie does a thousand times more damage to pak than taking out ten or twenty rangers or FC or armymen, callous though it may sound. Life is cheap in the subcontinent - AEWACs aren't.

 

[Viper 94]

jitny abhi tak taliban se bachy hoy hain

how many are they? is you don't know then don't reply what can anyone make of that response

 

[MastanKhan]

Pathetic.

The base commander is DIRECTLY responsible for this debacle. He should be the first one to have his reputation put on the line. Then the DSG Major.

I guess by Junior officials, the news means the sentry who ran away from his post.

Hi,

Who was the air marshall when these attacks happened?