The coronavirus crisis is turning Americans in both parties against China

[Aspen]

The more US hates China, the stronger China will get.

US tried this exact policy with Iran 40 years ago and it has completely backfired because Iran is now more powerful than the rest of the Middle East put together precisely because US isolated Iran from the world and forced Iran to become stronger and more self-sufficient.

Ultimately this will also backfire because trying to contain China is like trying to contain a lion. You can try but you will lose or maybe worse, you'll be eaten. Current US policy is that if US can't beat China, they'll try to damage China's economy instead. However this will never work since US needs China and China needs US. Damaging China's economy will damage US economy too. This is why Obama decided it was a better idea to be friends with China since it actually allows US to have deeper influence and leverage in preventing China from growing too much since US companies would be able to set up in China. If you can't beat them, join them. Open hostility like Trump will let China do whatever it wants and eliminates any influence or leverage US has over China since they have nothing to lose which actually makes China much more dangerous to US. When Trump puts tariffs and starts a trade war, why would Chinese have any interest in listening to anything Trump says. Under Obama, China would have listened to US because at least Obama pretended US was a friend of China. Trump makes it clear that US is enemy of China and China will use that as a perfect cover to replace US influence around the world with Belt and Road. Imran Khan himself said to never corner a tiger because a cornered tiger fights the hardest and right now US is trying to corner the tiger.

 

[tower9]

I can guarantee you, if the CCP does an about face today and allowed George Soros, the Koch Brothers, the Rothschilds and the rest of the financier cabal to establish influence and lobbying committees in Zhongnanhai. By tomorrow, all of the news about "China spreading coronavirus", "China killing and jailing Uighurs", "Chinese eating bats", "China harvesting organs" will disappear. Instead they will be replaced by "Spring has arrived in Beijing", "China joins the liberal world", "China becomes a responsible stakeholder", "The New Chimerica, Falling in Love Again". It is really that simple.

 

[dbc]

Sure but the comparison is not the same. For the Wall Street class, they feel betrayed because they realized that they would never be given any political control over China. Whereas with the Hu Jintao era, they had significant influence over some of the factions in the CCP like the Jiang Zemin clique for example, who were far more eager to orient China towards the West and even allow the entry of the Financier parasite class. I call them parasites because that's what they are, they feed on a host. Look at how they've damaged the standing of the United States over the last 50 years.

Wrong...Wrong ....and Wrong.....'There is no spoon'..

'The Wall Street class' is an animal of many hues and not loyal to any flag.
All this turmoil and friction you see on TV is to keep the masses entertained.

Behind the scenes they work closely together to boost their EPS.
I am entertained ...are you not entertained!!!

@grey boy 2 and another Chinese member @oceanx figured this $hit out years ago..

There is no US and China ...there is US-China Inc...

 

[Viet]

I disagree. The globalist financier class want full control of every society. China was a huge prize to be won. For decades, they hoped that eventually China would liberalize and allow them to expand their influence into China's policy making process which would allow them to gain control of China's political system and expand their dominance.

You are confusing the financier class with American corporations. Even though they are intertwined, they are not necessarily the same. American corporations made huge money in China and continue to do so. They are represented by institutions like the American chamber of commerce. They were made nervous by the Trump tariffs which severely disrupted their business and they are nervous about the decoupling between the US and China.

The financier class, which is the one that holds real power in the US, is another thing altogether.

What financier class?
You mean the Jews?
Come on the Jews will never control China.
China is controlled by a politburo.
Unless the Jews can plant spies in the politburo they can nothing.

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

I can guarantee you, if the CCP does an about face today and allowed George Soros, the Koch Brothers, the Rothschilds and the rest of the financier cabal to establish influence and lobbying committees in Zhongnanhai. By tomorrow, all of the news about "China spreading coronavirus", "China killing and jailing Uighurs", "Chinese eating bats", "China harvesting organs" will disappear. Instead they will be replaced by "Spring has arrived in Beijing", "China joins the liberal world", "China becomes a responsible stakeholder", "The New Chimerica, Falling in Love Again". It is really that simple.

Poetry.

 

[tower9]

The more US hates China, the stronger China will get.

US tried this exact policy with Iran 40 years ago and it has completely backfired because Iran is now more powerful than the rest of the Middle East put together precisely because US isolated Iran from the world and forced Iran to become stronger and more self-sufficient.

Ultimately this will also backfire because trying to contain China is like trying to contain a lion. You can try but you will lose or maybe worse, you'll be eaten. Current US policy is that if US can't beat China, they'll try to damage China's economy instead. However this will never work since US needs China and China needs US. Damaging China's economy will damage US economy too. This is why Obama decided it was a better idea to be friends with China since it actually allows US to have deeper influence and leverage in preventing China from growing too much since US companies would be able to set up in China. If you can't beat them, join them. Open hostility like Trump will let China do whatever it wants and eliminates any influence or leverage US has over China since they have nothing to lose which actually makes China much more dangerous to US. When Trump puts tariffs and starts a trade war, why would Chinese have any interest in listening to anything Trump says. Under Obama, China would have listened to US because at least Obama pretended US was a friend of China. Trump makes it clear that US is enemy of China and China will use that as a perfect cover to replace US influence around the world with Belt and Road. Imran Khan himself said to never corner a tiger because a cornered tiger fights the hardest and right now US is trying to corner the tiger.

The reality is that China is a nationalist state and will aggressively pursue its interests. Some of those do not align with the US and Americans are right that we need to bring manufacturing back. Also Americans are right to want to prevent CCP influence in American political lobbying.

However, the problem is that those who are in control of these lobbies, those in control of Washington, really do not give a **** about what is good for the American people. They have no intention in bringing manufacturing back or reducing the gap between the rich and poor in the US. Americans are expendable to this class. They have no loyalty to country, their loyalty is to their own interests, which is global domination.

Despite some obvious conflicts between the national interests of the US and China, it is still within the mutual interest of both countries to manage these conflicts and generate a working relationship. That way, both countries can benefit from the huge markets and opportunities present in the other country. A path towards war and conflict will damage both countries. It is up in the air who will get damaged more, but the fact is that the US and the American people will also suffer massive damages and it may even accelerate American decline if it leads to the loss of the US dollar as the reserve currency and the petrodollar's dominance. This will prevent the American govt. from using their currency printing machine to fund its massive budgets and not being able to do this will significantly destroy the quality of life of American citizens, especially if we hit another crisis, one where the US dollar is no longer the reserve currency.

What financier class?
You mean the Jews?
Come on the Jews will never control China.
China is controlled by a politburo.
Unless the Jews can plant spies in the politburo they can nothing.

They are made up of a lot of Jews, but they are not all Jews.

You would be surprised. They were actually cementing some influence in the Jiang Zemin and Hu Jintao eras, especially with corrupt Western oriented CCP members. Many of these were flushed out during the Xi era. If you listen to George Soros, he specifically says that his problem with China is with the Xi Jinping administration. Read between the lines, he lost a lot of influence and is furious.

 

[Viet]

You vietnamese won the war with the help and support of China and then you went and sat in the lap of USA. China did not betray you, you betrayed china

China weaponry support does never justify what China did, That was unacceptable. That caused a colossal damage. We liberated Cambodia.

Without Vietnam Cambodia does not exist today. That is an undeniable fact that is seen in the world, even the Chinese don’t deny it.

 

[Aasimkhan]

China weaponry support does never justify what China did, That was unacceptable. That caused a colossal damage. We liberated Cambodia. We did it out of humanity reason.

China helped you when Americans were throwing Agent Orange on you from the air, they were butchering your children and women. You should have shown some respect

 

[Viet]

China helped you when Americans were throwing Agent Orange on you from the air, they were butchering your children and women. You should have shown some respect

Ok China helped. Pls don’t forget USSR helped too. Cuba too. the entire eastern communist bloc. But I don’t see Cuba betrayed Vietnam.

 

[dBSPL]

China helped you when Americans were throwing Agent Orange on you from the air, they were butchering your children and women. You should have shown some respect

Pol Pot liked this msg.

 

[Aasimkhan]

It was impossible for Vietnam to win against USA without China's help. Today same Vietnam is a puppet in the hands of USA.

 

[Crusher]

................

The financier class, which is the one that holds real power in the US, is another thing altogether.

Just call them big banks of wall street, JP Morgan, Citi Group, Wells Fargo, Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley and countless other "wealth and investment" management funds. This way people will understand it better.

 

[vi-va]

Yang is just a marginal player, he's not really important in the big scheme of things.

If you really want to understand why the US has become hysterically anti-China, just understand this, the financier class of Wall Street, the REAL OWNERS of the US, came to the conclusion probably circa 2016-2017 that the administration of Xi Jinping will not allow them any influence or political power in China's government. American corporations were and are welcome to make money in China, but the globalist financier class lost a lot of influence during Xi Jinping's anti-corruption drives and it was clear that China was a nationalist government that will brook no outside influence in its matters. This, coupled with China's clear advancement as a technological innovator as illustrated by the likes of Huawei, Alibaba, Tencent, Baidu, DJI and much more, meant that not only was China far outside the influence of the financier class, but it became clear that China may realistically overtake the current host (USA) that this financier class was feeding on, as the globalist financier class is a social parasite.

Therefore, the conclusion was that "China had betrayed them" by pretending to move towards liberalism but after it had acquired the manufacturing, technological and industrial capabilities from decades of capitalist investment, it still remained an independent and nationalist state.

If you understand this, then all of the anti-China propaganda becomes clear. Guess who controls the Western mainstream media?

I never agree with you comment, this is the first one I agree. At least you are intelligent, not like those anti-China fools using fake propaganda.

You hit the point. The US is there where Vietnam was there long ago. The US feels betrayed by China. They feel bitterness. We feel betrayed, feel the same bitterness when the chinese under Deng attacked Vietnam in an attempt to save their blood Khmer bro’s in Cambodia.

The US relationship now to the chinese is damaged beyond repair.

China never betrayed Vietnam because we don't have any liability to save your country or not. If you do believe we have liability, you are not independent country from the very beginning.

It's Le Duan's misadventure failed Vietnam. He is responsible for his wrong doing and misjudgment. This is off topic.

Sure but the comparison is not the same. For the Wall Street class, they feel betrayed because they realized that they would never be given any political control over China. Whereas with the Hu Jintao era, they had significant influence over some of the factions in the CCP like the Jiang Zemin clique for example, who were far more eager to orient China towards the West and even allow the entry of the Financier parasite class. I call them parasites because that's what they are, they feed on a host. Look at how they've damaged the standing of the United States over the last 50 years.

That's the essence of capitalism.

No I don’t think they want to control China nor want to impose another political system on China. The US money elites only want to make money. The biggest mistake the chinese made is challenge US hegemony. China wants to drive the US out of East Asia. That is something the Washington political elites will never accept. Banning Huawei is just a small piece in the bigger game.

That’s the problem the chinese don’t understand. Demanding the US to leave East Asia is like asking Adolf Hitler to surrender unconditionally. No way, like Hitler, the US will mobilize all resources and fight until the bitter end.

Even though you come from Vietnam which has similar political system, regarding politics you should learn from @tower9 who is an American.

Sure but the comparison is not the same. For the Wall Street class, they feel betrayed because they realized that they would never be given any political control over China. Whereas with the Hu Jintao era, they had significant influence over some of the factions in the CCP like the Jiang Zemin clique for example, who were far more eager to orient China towards the West and even allow the entry of the Financier parasite class. I call them parasites because that's what they are, they feed on a host. Look at how they've damaged the standing of the United States over the last 50 years.

True.

I disagree. The globalist financier class want full control of every society. China was a huge prize to be won. For decades, they hoped that eventually China would liberalize and allow them to expand their influence into China's policy making process which would allow them to gain control of China's political system and expand their dominance.

You are confusing the financier class with American corporations. Even though they are intertwined, they are not necessarily the same. American corporations made huge money in China and continue to do so. They are represented by institutions like the American chamber of commerce. They were made nervous by the Trump tariffs which severely disrupted their business and they are nervous about the decoupling between the US and China.

The financier class, which is the one that holds real power in the US, is another thing altogether.

True.

Operate, sure. They have no control over policy making however. The financier class isn't satisfied with just making money, they want complete control.

China's real threat is not that it's beyond their control but it has the capability to surpass the wealth and power of their current host, the United States, which is being sucked dry.

can't agree more

I can guarantee you, if the CCP does an about face today and allowed George Soros, the Koch Brothers, the Rothschilds and the rest of the financier cabal to establish influence and lobbying committees in Zhongnanhai. By tomorrow, all of the news about "China spreading coronavirus", "China killing and jailing Uighurs", "Chinese eating bats", "China harvesting organs" will disappear. Instead they will be replaced by "Spring has arrived in Beijing", "China joins the liberal world", "China becomes a responsible stakeholder", "The New Chimerica, Falling in Love Again". It is really that simple.

Can't agree more

The reality is that China is a nationalist state and will aggressively pursue its interests. Some of those do not align with the US and Americans are right that we need to bring manufacturing back. Also Americans are right to want to prevent CCP influence in American political lobbying.

However, the problem is that those who are in control of these lobbies, those in control of Washington, really do not give a **** about what is good for the American people. They have no intention in bringing manufacturing back or reducing the gap between the rich and poor in the US. Americans are expendable to this class. They have no loyalty to country, their loyalty is to their own interests, which is global domination.

Despite some obvious conflicts between the national interests of the US and China, it is still within the mutual interest of both countries to manage these conflicts and generate a working relationship. That way, both countries can benefit from the huge markets and opportunities present in the other country. A path towards war and conflict will damage both countries. It is up in the air who will get damaged more, but the fact is that the US and the American people will also suffer massive damages and it may even accelerate American decline if it leads to the loss of the US dollar as the reserve currency and the petrodollar's dominance. This will prevent the American govt. from using their currency printing machine to fund its massive budgets and not being able to do this will significantly destroy the quality of life of American citizens, especially if we hit another crisis, one where the US dollar is no longer the reserve currency.



They are made up of a lot of Jews, but they are not all Jews.

You would be surprised. They were actually cementing some influence in the Jiang Zemin and Hu Jintao eras, especially with corrupt Western oriented CCP members. Many of these were flushed out during the Xi era. If you listen to George Soros, he specifically says that his problem with China is with the Xi Jinping administration. Read between the lines, he lost a lot of influence and is furious.

You are damn smart when you are not anti-China. Actually most of Chinese members here understand those simple facts, majority people brainwashed by western media don't, especially those liberals or pro-democracy.

It's such an illusion and many people simply don't understand that, democracy/freedom of speech/globalization are just tools to control 3rd world. I think the most brainwashed intellectuals should be Indian, I see hundreds of Indian intellectuals are democracy/freedom of speech lover and can NOT understand those simple fact.

You would be surprised. They were actually cementing some influence in the Jiang Zemin and Hu Jintao eras, especially with corrupt Western oriented CCP members. Many of these were flushed out during the Xi era. If you listen to George Soros, he specifically says that his problem with China is with the Xi Jinping administration. Read between the lines, he lost a lot of influence and is furious.

this is called Strategic Fool-you Agency. Because we are smarter than Soros.

China weaponry support does never justify what China did, That was unacceptable. That caused a colossal damage. We liberated Cambodia.

Without Vietnam Cambodia does not exist today. That is an undeniable fact that is seen in the world, even the Chinese don’t deny it.

We don't blame you for countering Khmer Rouge, we simply don't want you to merge Cambodia. Nobody are fools here.

It was impossible for Vietnam to win against USA without China's help. Today same Vietnam is a puppet in the hands of USA.

Economy wise, and political wise, and most important, military wise. Vietnam choose the wrong partner again and again.

Ok China helped. Pls don’t forget USSR helped too. Cuba too. the entire eastern communist bloc. But I don’t see Cuba betrayed Vietnam.

China backed North Vietnam on 17 degrees north, no American s boots dare to cross 17 degrees north just like China backed North Korea on 38 degrees north during Korean War.

Without China, there is no fighting ground for North Vietnam.
Without China, there is no North Korea fighting ground.

Did you ever read real history or just so simply believe what you want to believe?

 

[tower9]

I never agree with you comment, this is the first one I agree. At least you are intelligent, not like those anti-China fools using fake propaganda.


China never betrayed Vietnam because we don't have any liability to save your country or not. If you do believe we have liability, you are not independent country from the very beginning.

It's Le Duan's misadventure failed Vietnam. He is responsible for his wrong doing and misjudgment. This is off topic.


That's the essence of capitalism.


Even though you come from Vietnam which has similar political system, regarding politics you should learn from @tower9 who is an American.


True.


True.


can't agree more


Can't agree more


You are damn smart when you are not anti-China. Actually most of Chinese members here understand those simple facts, majority people brainwashed by western media don't, especially those liberals or pro-democracy.

It's such an illusion and many people simply don't understand that, democracy/freedom of speech/globalization are just tools to control 3rd world. I think the most brainwashed intellectuals should be Indian, I see hundreds of Indian intellectuals are democracy/freedom of speech lover and can NOT understand those simple fact.


this is called Strategic Fool-you Agency. Because we are smarter than Soros.


We don't blame you for countering Khmer Rouge, we simply don't want you to merge Cambodia. Nobody are fools here.


Economy wise, and political wise, and most important, military wise. Vietnam choose the wrong partner again and again.


China backed North Vietnam on 17 degrees north, no American s boots dare to cross 17 degrees north just like China backed North Korea on 38 degrees north during Korean War.

Without China, there is no fighting ground for North Vietnam.
Without China, there is no North Korea fighting ground.

Did you ever read real history or just so simply believe what you want to believe?

I'm not an ideological person and I prefer the truth over nationalism, unlike most people.

My main problems with modern China have more to do with a lot of the cultural norms, values in both society and politics. This doesn't mean I agree with how the Western media depicts China or any other country deemed an "enemy". I'm well aware of the long history of manipulation and duplicity in American foreign policy. That is why the only presidential candidate I supported was Tulsi Gabbard.

Currently, the US deep state and the financier cabal, which are basically one and the same, are desperate and this desperation is frightening because they are pushing the US to ratchet up hostility against China to a fever pitch where a match can light a war. And this is between the two most powerful nations in the world. Very reckless behavior and many innocent people on both sides will suffer, but desperate and entitled narcissists are capable of great havoc.

 

[Viva_Viet]

I


You are damn smart when you are not anti-China. Actually most of Chinese members here understand those simple facts, majority people brainwashed by western media don't, especially those liberals or pro-democracy.

It's such an illusion and many people simply don't understand that, democracy/freedom of speech/globalization are just tools to control 3rd world. I think the most brainwashed intellectuals should be Indian, I see hundreds of Indian intellectuals are democracy/freedom of speech lover and can NOT understand those simple fact.


this is called Strategic Fool-you Agency. Because we are smarter than Soros.


We don't blame you for countering Khmer Rouge, we simply don't want you to merge Cambodia. Nobody are fools here.


Economy wise, and political wise, and most important, military wise. Vietnam choose the wrong partner again and again.


China backed North Vietnam on 17 degrees north, no American s boots dare to cross 17 degrees north just like China backed North Korea on 38 degrees north during Korean War.

Without China, there is no fighting ground for North Vietnam.
Without China, there is no North Korea fighting ground.

Did you ever read real history or just so simply believe what you want to believe?

Dare CN leader like Xi said CN "help-protect" VN agaisnt US ?? No, they dare not ?

Do u know why ? Bcs VN asked help from Soviet and Stalin ordered Mao to support VN. Mao owed big debt from Soviet, so Mao must do what Stalin told him to do.

Thats why, CN willing to bow down to new Masters US and old master Jap in 1978 after Soviet dislike CN for tealing Soviet weapons tech sending to VN.

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Former Chinese leader Deng Xiaoping (