The Concept of the Pan-Malay Union: A discussion

[nufix]

Which makes no sense to me since Malaysia , Indonesia and Brubei are all Muslim majority nations.

It totally makes sense to me, one of the biggest dreams these terrorists have is defeating the power of thogut (or human-god or mortal god like kings, presidents, or ideologies) first before making a nation led by patriarch. Among Malaysia, Indonesia, and Brunei, Indonesia is much less "islamic" than other 2 countries mentioned before, so they need to spread terror in Indonesia first since to them, Indonesia is a home for thogut.

 

[Aepsilons]

Originally it wasn't. Go read "Project IC" in wikipedia. I can't post link. To explain why so many Filipino in Sabah.

Sabah, in 1963

• 32% Kadazandusuns,
• 23% Chinese,
• 15.8% Other Muslims,
• 13.1% Bajaus,
• 5.5% Indonesians
• 4.9% Muruts,
• 1.6% Filipinos and
• 0.4% Malay.

Sabah 2006

• 25% Non-citizens,
• 17.76% Kadazandusuns,
• 14.62% Other Bumiputras,
• 13.4% Bajaus,
• 11.48% Malays,
• 9.6% Chinese,
• 4.8% Others,
• 3.3% Muruts.

Sabah in itself is very diverse! But Sabah was once part of Sulu and Brunei Sultanate. Malays really had no presence there, it was British relegation of Sarawak and Sabah to Kuala Lumpur to make an Eastern Malaysia. I think Philippines still claims Sabah.

 

[powastick]

Malaysian education isn't secular because of the of the compulsory Islam education in primary and secondary school. And every Islam girls need to wear headscarf to school. Not to sure about indonesia education system. And you need to read a lot of Prophet Muhammed and Islam history in secondary school despite you are non muslim. Islam at least 1 full chapter.

Is not the monarch, is the education system.

 

[Nike]

Maye difference is that Malaysia is a monarchy , and tresses their predominant culture of the monarch , religion etc. whereas Indonesia is a Republic. I think there were kings in Indonesia such as Yogyakarta kingdom, but they have no political power. Can you explain for us? @Indos , @madokafc , @Reashot Xigwin , @Brainsucker ?

Yogyakarta Sultanate is a special cases, when the fights against Dutch is still raging in Indonesia, a lot of local kingdom and their kings allied themselves with the Dutch and giving much support for the Dutch in return of power, money and etc. But it was much different with Yogyakarta Sultan at the time, he was giving much of his and his Sultanate support toward the newborn Republic. As a gratitude, Soekarno after the war against Dutch is over giving much credit of Indonesia independence toward Yogyakarta and grants the Sultan and his Sultanate some special and privilege rights (including hereditary title of Governor of Yogyakarta province) meanwhile Soekarno and TNI abolished and purging other local kingdoms who supports the Dutch in our war of independence.

 

[powastick]

Sabah in itself is very diverse! But Sabah was once part of Sulu and Brunei Sultanate. Malays really had no presence there, it was British relegation of Sarawak and Sabah to Kuala Lumpur to make an Eastern Malaysia. I think Philippines still claims Sabah.

Some parts of Sabah belong to Sulu. Most of it Brunei. If Sulu want it back, so can Brunei.

 

[nufix]

Malaysian education isn't secular because of the of the compulsory Islam education in primary and secondary school. And every Islam girls need to wear headscarf to school. Not to sure about indonesia education system.

In Indonesia, in the state schools, religion is also a compulsory subject but it is limited only to the followers as the Christians, the muslims, etc will have their own class when it comes to this subject. The religious teachings are strongly influenced by nationalistic ideals.

Education in Indonesia mostly favors nationalism over religion, but this condition is not so accurate when we talk about private schools and home schooling

 

[Indos]

I invite the Indonesian, Malaysian, Indonesia, Bruneians to this thread. This is a question to all of you , dear ladies and gentlemen, is there a concept of Pan-Malay Union in your societies?

Is there a movement that calls for the union of all Malay nations into one ?

I do know, from my readings of Indonesian history, that there was a concept of 'Melayu Raya', or 'Greater Malaya', which was espoused by early leaders such as Muhammand Yammin during the 1920s. In the Philippines, Dr. Jose Rizal also espoused of a Malay Brotherhood. So there is that historical premise.

Yup, It is called "Nusantara" in which Malaysia should be part of it, but I think this idea is only hold in Soekarno time where he himself tried to "liberate" Malaysia from British influence and as a result we had a war with British/Australia/New Zealand/ Malaysia in Kalimantan (Borneo) during early 1960's. But this move was not supported by our army generals and also all Islamist Movement as it was seen as a part to strengthen communism in Malaysia (Soekarno was close with Communist Party during that time in which our Army Leaders and Muslim leaders don't like).

After Army and Islamist Movement (HMI/ Islamic Student Group ( this group member lead Golkar/Demokrat/PAN Party in Todays politics/ that's why they tend to make a coalition among them that seems to be always against PDI-P which is seen as Soekarno heritage) come up together to throw up Soekarno from power, we reversed our policy regarding Malaysia and even helped Malaysia to fight their communist movement in Sarawak (Malaysia's part of Borneo) after Soeharto took the power. That's why Soeharto is respected so much by Mahathir Mohammad and some analyst said that Soeharto is a role model for Mahathir Mohammad.

Why there is no Malaysian Malay in here ?

 

[powastick]

Indonesia–Malaysia confrontation

During the height of Konfrontasi, Singapore, much to the embarrassment of British officials, was expelled from the Malaysian Federation on 9 August 1965 due to ongoing political deadlock between the warring political parties of the Malaysian government with its respective power bases in Malaya and Singapore. Although Indonesia's Konfrontasi tactics of covert infiltrations had no direct effect on Malaysia's internal stability, the expulsion of Singapore was seized upon by Indonesia as evidence that the Malaysian state was an artificial British construct as Indonesia had consistently claimed.

Probably the last serious bid.

 

[Indos]

@Nihonjin1051

Nusantara today is an Indonesian term for the Indonesian archipelago.[1] It originated in Old Javanese and literally means "archipelago".[2] In Malay, Nusantara bears the meaning of Malay World, and predates the modern state of Indonesia.
The word Nusantara was taken from an oath by Gajah Mada in 1336, as written on an old Javanese manuscript Pararaton and Negarakertagama.[3] Gajah Mada was a powerful military leader and prime minister of the Majapahit Empire who was credited with bringing the empire to its peak of glory. Gajah Mada delivered an oath called Sumpah Palapa, in which he vowed not to eat any food containing spices until he had conquered all of Nusantara under the glory of Majapahit.

Today, Indonesian historian believed that the concept of Nusantara was not an idea coined by Gajah Mada for the first time in 1336. It was coined earlier in 1275 as Cakravala Mandala Dvipantara by Kertanegara, king of Singhasari [4] Dvipantara is a Sanskrit word for the "islands in between", the synonym to Nusantara as both dvipa and nusa in Sanskrit means "island". The term is used to describe the Southeast Asian Archipelago. Kertanegara envisioned the union of Southeast Asian maritime kingdoms under Singhasari against the rising of expansive Mongol Yuan Dynasty in mainland China.

Nusantara - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Aepsilons]

@Nihonjin1051

Nusantara today is an Indonesian term for the Indonesian archipelago.[1] It originated in Old Javanese and literally means "archipelago".[2] In Malay, Nusantara bears the meaning of Malay World, and predates the modern state of Indonesia.
The word Nusantara was taken from an oath by Gajah Mada in 1336, as written on an old Javanese manuscript Pararaton and Negarakertagama.[3] Gajah Mada was a powerful military leader and prime minister of the Majapahit Empire who was credited with bringing the empire to its peak of glory. Gajah Mada delivered an oath called Sumpah Palapa, in which he vowed not to eat any food containing spices until he had conquered all of Nusantara under the glory of Majapahit.

Today, Indonesian historian believed that the concept of Nusantara was not an idea coined by Gajah Mada for the first time in 1336. It was coined earlier in 1275 as Cakravala Mandala Dvipantara by Kertanegara, king of Singhasari [4] Dvipantara is a Sanskrit word for the "islands in between", the synonym to Nusantara as both dvipa and nusa in Sanskrit means "island". The term is used to describe the Southeast Asian Archipelago. Kertanegara envisioned the union of Southeast Asian maritime kingdoms under Singhasari against the rising of expansive Mongol Yuan Dynasty in mainland China.

Nusantara - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So much history ! Thank you for this, bro.

Indonesia–Malaysia confrontation



Probably the last serious bid.

One of the last instances of British divide and conquer strategies in the Malay Archipelago.

 

[powastick]

"One of the last instances of British divide and conquer strategies in the Malay Archipelago".

You got it wrong. Western Colonial system get a foothold by gunboat diplomacy and trickery if you read the history.

Divide and conquer mostly refer to their ruling style. Creating fault lines in the society, and solving it to get merit. It continues till today reflected by US policy in Middle East.

If not for the communist, no way the British and the Dutch would allow independent.

 

[Aepsilons]

You got it wrong. Western Colonial system get a foothold by gunboat diplomacy and trickery if you read the history.

Divide and conquer mostly refer to their ruling style. Creating fault lines in the society, and solving it to get merit. It continues till today reflected by US policy in Middle East.

If not for the communist, no way the British and the Dutch would allow independent.

It seems that you're right, divide and conquer was their ruling style. I concede to your point(s).

 

[Indos]

You got it wrong. Western Colonial system get a foothold by gunboat diplomacy and trickery if you read the history.

Divide and conquer mostly refer to their ruling style. Creating fault lines in the society, and solving it to get merit. It continues till today reflected by US policy in Middle East.

If not for the communist, no way the British and the Dutch would allow independent.

Sorry, not true for Indonesian case, we fought both British and Dutch (British came and fought us because of Dutch request) through military and diplomatic struggle. In other words, we beat them all. Including in the last war in Papua (Irian Jaya) island in 1960's, where our military at that time was much better than Dutch, thanks to USSR help by giving soft loan to get many military armament from them.

 

[powastick]

Sorry, not true for Indonesian case, we fought both British and Dutch (British came and fought us because of Dutch request) through military and diplomatic struggle. In other words, we beat them all. Including in the last war in Papua (Irian Jaya) island in 1960's, where our military at that time was much better than Dutch, thanks to USSR help.

"United States, impressed by Indonesia's ability to defeat the 1948 communist challenge without outside help, threatened to cut-off Marshall Aid funds to Netherlands if military operations in Indonesia continued. "

Malaysian text book did credit communism as a reason not sure about Indonesia.

 

[Developereo]

I invite the Indonesian, Malaysian, Indonesia, Bruneians to this thread. This is a question to all of you , dear ladies and gentlemen, is there a concept of Pan-Malay Union in your societies?

Is there a movement that calls for the union of all Malay nations into one ?

I do know, from my readings of Indonesian history, that there was a concept of 'Melayu Raya', or 'Greater Malaya', which was espoused by early leaders such as Muhammand Yammin during the 1920s. In the Philippines, Dr. Jose Rizal also espoused of a Malay Brotherhood. So there is that historical premise.

There are almost no Malay Malaysians on this forum, so all you will get will be racist attacks by non-Malays onto Malays.

Hardly a fair "debate".

Malay lands and people have been divided by colonialists over the centuries; it is going to be very difficult to undo the damage of the colonial era.