The Cold Start Doctrine Watch.

[Kompromat]

Your reply above highlights the point I want to make.

Everything is based on presupposition. I do not intend to discuss tactics & strategy on the net & least of all here.

I however has go my answer.

Brilliant, thanks for giving us your valuable time so far.

 

[third eye]

Brilliant, thanks for giving us your valuable time so far.

You are welcome.

My views are in post Nos 23 & 25.

Reading vivid PsOV here does help.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

@muse

I know its not related to CSD very much but according to stats, Pakistani civilians own 72 firearms for EVERY Indian soldier in the Indian Army and BSF.

Something like 85 Million firearms. Army will not have much problem with the reinforcements.

With Bhartiz invading Pakistan, it will unite the country. It will be 1965 all over again,instead this time we will be armed with firearms not gandasas and axes.Indians will be turned into a bloody turkeyshoot.

@muse

I didn't mean that China will pose a threat to India if the impliment CSD. Or maybe they will, as they issued ultimatum to India in 1965..it depends on how much strategic interests they have in Pakistan at that time...so we don't know for sure.

Past record tells us that they will exert pressure in India at least.

Funniest post from a mod.
1]If giving a person a rifle made him a soldier there wouldn't be need of the words 'training','discipine'.'organization'.Modern wars are won by electronics and airpower.
2]With nuclear umbrella on both sides,any large scale invasion is impossible so the whole post is moot.
3]China gave ultimatum to india in 1965 and we didn't even bother.
4]Cold start is fake policy for stunt purposes.No iBGs are being formed,what IA is now trying to do is make overall structure less bulky for indivdual formations and compensating for loss of firepower with new elements like Army aviation corps.Cold start was big hoax.IA has already shifted from pak centric to sino centric model.And with militancy nearly dead in kashmir there is no need to cross border anyway.

 

[Kompromat]

Funniest post from a mod.
1]If giving a person a rifle made him a soldier there wouldn't be need of the words 'training','discipine'.'organization'.Modern wars are won by electronics and airpower.
2]With nuclear umbrella on both sides,any large scale invasion is impossible so the whole post is moot.
3]China gave ultimatum to india in 1965 and we didn't even bother.

You need to work on your comprehension skills and polish your sense of humor. The post was adressed at someone who knows what i meant, not at you. Refrain from quoting me again.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Ok ,i took some of them as general observations.

 

[Kompromat]

Ok ,i took some of them as general observations.

For future reference, i was talking about Urban warfare in our streets as well as our ability to provide armed reinforcements to the Army. Giving someone a gun doesn't make him a soldier, but giving him a gun when his home,family,kids,women,property are being threatened by an enemy, he will become a soldier. Its proven by history.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

My point was Why would there be urban warfare in the first place under nuclear overhang?Still got ur point.

 

[Markus]

Please provide a source for this. I have read more material on CSD than you will ever do and i have never come across a backup full scale war plan. Full scale war will turn nuclear, resulting in an unwanted mutual suicide.

Please read the entire document. Pages 4,6 and 7 was what I was referring to.

http://users.ox.ac.uk/~mert1769/Ladwig, Cold Start NPS Paper.pdf

 

[Bang Galore]

They may decide how it starts but the ones deciding how it ends will be us.

Your Generals need to know this.

""No plan survives contact with the enemy: Field Marshall Helmuth von Moltke the Elder"

Do you believe that history will start where you want it to? The Indian army would not be engaging with any doctrine if there isn't a provocation for that doctrine to be put into play. So the ones who would be starting it would be you lot. To believe that you will always be allowed to decide the escalation levels & will have a free run with your other "activities" is silly. Maybe you should apply Moltke's quote to yourselves first.

 

[scorpionx]

Please read the entire document. Pages 4,6 and 7 was what I was referring to.

http://users.ox.ac.uk/~mert1769/Ladwig, Cold Start NPS Paper.pdf

Cold start doctrine is a limited war strategy and the main fundamental concern is that a limited conflict of this kind will lead to a large scale of conflagration.

 

[Markus]

Cold start doctrine is a limited war strategy and the main fundamental concern is that a limited conflict of this kind will lead to a large scale of conflagration.

I dont know why some people feel that CSD is all about limited war.

ITS NOT. Read the link I provided above.

Why are everyone so confused ?

 

[scorpionx]

I dont know why some people feel that CSD is all about limited war.

ITS NOT. Read the link I provided above.

Why are everyone so confused ?

"Cold Start
The Chief of Army Staff unveiled the new Cold Start concept in April 2004. The goal of
this limited war strategy is to launch a retaliatory conventional strike against Pakistan
before the international community could intercede, one that would inflict significant
harm on the Pakistan Army while denying Islamabad a justification to escalate the clash
to the nuclear level."

Ok.Let me just copy paste from the link then.I read the article before you posted here.

 

[muse]

I dont know why some people feel that CSD is all about limited war.

ITS NOT. Read the link I provided above. Why are everyone so confused ?

OK - this from the first line of the link you provided:

In April 2004, the Indian Army announced a new limited war doctrine

 

[Markus]

"Cold Start
The Chief of Army Staff unveiled the new Cold Start concept in April 2004. The goal of
this limited war strategy is to launch a retaliatory conventional strike against Pakistan
before the international community could intercede, one that would inflict significant
harm on the Pakistan Army while denying Islamabad a justification to escalate the clash
to the nuclear level."

Ok.Let me just copy paste from the link then.I read the article before you posted here.

No need to give link. I have read millions of them already.

CSD has been refined to the core since it was conceptualized.

While the intention is to keep the war limited, but in the real sense, CSD is designed to provide time for Indian strike corps to fall into place.

Once CSD is executed, only Pakistan's response will decide if the war will be short or not. Hence, the strike corps deployment will be in effect when CSD is executed.

OK - this from the first line of the link you provided:

Please read #134 of what I am trying to say.

Definition of limited can vary person to person, military to military, country to country and doctrine to doctrine.

 

[muse]

I see - and take your point - awfully optimistic trusting Pakistanis to decide whether you are vaporized or not