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The Clash Within Civilisations: The Sunni-Shiite Divide

True that ; I still remember an incident in Delhi which made me acquainted with their rivalry. And add in the caste warfare (oh yes, there are upper caste and lower caste Muslims too) and its a deadly cocktail. One of our drivers, this guy who is a Sunni, accuses his neighborly Shia of feeding them food off plates that have been polished with their spit, that's how bad they despised each other. Now i wouldn't have given it ear if it was just neighbors dissing each other off, but he said that it was a general behavior among the Shias towards Sunnis. Curiously, i asked him how would they treat a Christian or a Hindu. He says they are treated on a different pedestal, as there would be kept different kitchenware for them.

yes....in UP and all, there are many shias who would say they would rather trust a hindu than a sunni or vice versa....many clashes have occured on muharram when the shia take a procession and the sunni create trouble...
 
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yes....in up and all, there are many shias who would say they would rather trust a hindu than a sunni or vice versa....many clashes have occured on muharram when the shia take a procession and the sunni create trouble...
This Shia family, that i know of, is an Ansari. But they are treated like dirt by these Siddiquis, who think of themselves as Nawabs even though they are as backward as they get in their thinking. Sometimes, i feel that reconciling all these differences amongst their very own Ummah-Chummah brothers is a much harder task than reconciling amongst Hindus and Muslims. This inspite of us, having a Veep called Hamid Ansari. The one who trumpets of this Ummah nonsense has to visit these alleys and bylanes of Azamgarh, Faridabad and Meerut to know the reality of how narrow their mindsets have become.
 
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This Shia family, that i know of, is an Ansari. But they are treated like dirt by these Siddiquis, who think of themselves as Nawabs even though they are as backward as they get in their thinking.

its the the ashraf-ajlaf divide...probably not sectarian in that case...
 
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its the the ashraf-ajlaf divide...probably not sectarian in that case...
Well i sincerely do not know what context that divide has in the modern fabric of our society. But, i do know where does the hatred start for them and where does it translate to. The divisions are economic, social, sectarian, and what not. They may have hatred on account of economic disparities, and then they might show it an sectarian form. As you pointed out, UP and Bihar are teeming grounds of this. And the worrying factor is UP, Bihar and Bengal almost account for 40% of India's population which is uneducated, without economic benefits and rooted in this parochialism the majority whom are Muslims. In come these ba$tards like Raul Vinci and his sycophantics, Maywati, the Yadav a$$hats, and they exploit them and hang them dry. In good hands they are a potent power. In the wrong hands, they are cannon fodder for the exploiters.
 
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You obviously haven't seen zanjeer zani of the crazy folks in Mumbai. youtube is your friend.

mate that is how they mourn the loss of hussain....in our place in my place who give dozens of balis on a single day to deities....just cut, cut, cut the heads of goats, buffaloes as sacrifice....on one single day.....doesnt mean we go about cutting heads of people too on other days....then you have the taliban who would behead soldiers and video record them as some sort of cak e cutting ceremony....I said moderate in the context of their inter-personal relationships with others and also how they interpret the quran..whether they do it almost literally like many sunnis or try to moderate it with evolving times...

anyway that is just my personal opinion and you are free to disagree...

Well i sincerely do not know what context that divide has in the modern fabric of our society. .

ashraj-ajlaf is in simple terms casteism among muslims....those that came along with the invaders or who claim to have come with the invaders like pathans, syeds, siddiquis are considered as ashrafs (upper caste) and the native converts like the ansaris are considered ajlafs (lower caste)...
 
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but i agree....it looks pretty barbaric..seeing little children drenched in blood and all...how would they grow up...:sick:

wy the **** do the police do even give permission for such barbaric rituals is totally beyond me....:tdown:
 
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ashraj-ajlaf is in simple terms casteism among muslims....those that came along with the invaders or who claim to have come with the invaders like pathans, syeds, siddiquis are considered as ashrafs (upper caste) and the native converts like the ansaris are considered ajlafs (lower caste)...
Wikipedia huh ? Well, all i have are first hand experiences. But On Topic of sectarianism, it is infested even in our Society which is as deep as these caste divides.
 
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Wikipedia huh ? Well, all i have are first hand experiences. But On Topic of sectarianism, it is infested even in our Society which is as deep as these caste divides.

not wiki...this topic was broached before on this forum as well when i came to know about this divide....
 
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I See Hindus Discussing this matter more than muslims .:D

Nonetheless The Shia-Sunni Divide is larger today becuase of geo-political issue . Iran is the only Shia Majority Country Left in Gulf Today ( Sorry but I don't See Bahrain as a country and you guys would have guessed why) . Saudi Hates Iran and vice versa .

But when you mix geo-political game with religion you get this venomous concoction wherein common sense takes a flight .

It's easy to blame Israel or U.S. for it but it's not them . It's you guys , your Monarchs , Your Ayotallahs your Imams who are responsible for it .

Muslims in the Arab world and Indian Subcontinent need to learn to Keep Religion between themselves and their god and not involve it every tiny things .

But Nonetheless as Sunni Majority countries are on U.S. Side Shia majority/controlled are being Demonized ( Iran , Syria etc) but this Geo-political roll of dice can change anytime .

In India also zanzir zani ( sorry i dont know the right word) is banned in certain cities and not because of Hindus or anyone else but because their Sunni brothers would start pelting stones and soon the streets would turn to war zone .

Nonetheless Learn to keep religion between yourself and your god and everything would be sunshine and rainbows .
 
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i'll tell you what is keeping the shias and sunnis in india from going at each other;s throats...the need to stand united in face of the hindus...thats it...else you would be seeing the same thing you are seeing in other countries....even in this scenario...in places like up the shia and the sunni dont freely co-exist with each other...the gullies are different, the neighbourhoods are different and the tension is always there in the air....

where is the unity? both stay AWAY from each others places. Shias are seen as more integrated(educated etc etc) people. why hide? Even Hindus join Ashuras in major Indian cities.
but, that doesn't mean Sunnis are hated.

Hindus participate in Muharram - Times Of India
 
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Not all Hindus do that...only a particular group called the husseini brahmins do that...their ancestors are rumored to have fought against yazid along with hussein in karbala...
 
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Please name the external players.

For starters,

by MIKE SHUSTER

The Global Mail
By Stephen Crittenden
[...]
The Lowy Institute

JPost - Opinion - Columnists
By BARRY RUBIN

to name just a few.

The conflict is primarily a politico-ethnic one between Iran and the GCC but various factions, internal and external, want to inflame it into a full fledged sectarian conflict.
 
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