The Clash Within Civilisations: The Sunni-Shiite Divide

[DroneAcharya]

Your History is right , but observation is wrong. muslim kingdom Al Andalusia was strongest kingdom in Europe when Muslims were united. 700 years of unity made it the most prosperous and developed nation on earth. Do a little bit of history research! Secularism took birth here!! Jews flourished under Islamic rule. Only After intra-fighting Isabela managed to win against divided small towns like granada. Columbus had all his geographic knowledge collected by Jews amd muslims in muslim spain prior to his expedition!!

Lol, peddle that nonsense of secularism elsewhere. Dhimmification was rife, and essentially, dhimmis were never given equal rights. And about Columbus, the only thing he learnt from the Moors was navigation using the Moon's phases out in the open ocean. The major part of his success in navigation did not come from the cartographs drawn by Muslims but his knowledge of easterlies and westerlies after years of sailing in the open seas. So again, peddle that nonsense elsewhere.

 

[KS]

Ahmedis and Alawis are progressive. They have no problem with democracy and modern concepts.
Sunni, shias not so much.

Well I would not say that for the Shias too, atleast in the context of India. Yes they have their one day off. But they are far more progressive in their inter-religious relations and also how they interpret Islam than the sunnis.

BTW I agree that Ahmedis and Alawis are much progressive when compared to the others. Maybe because of their small numbers.

 

[kalu_miah]

Alawits are muslim?? Have you read OP of this thread??

I believe Alawites are considered as nominally Muslims, although they have many Shirk practices, so I am not sure. That is why we need a GFC (Global Fiqh Council) to reach a global consensus on such matters. If we start declaring people non-Muslims who consider themselves Muslims, we become Takfiri. But if GFC does that, then it becomes a decision for all Muslims to follow, unless those people change their practices. The Ahmedi question can be addressed by GFC as well.

OT: (rant) From Indians, please do not expect objective answers. Their Islamophobia is so deep rooted that it oozes from every sentence they construct, may be history has something to do with it. For Bangladeshi's they also have a special hatred, because the low life Shudra, Dalit origin Bangladeshi's have now become uppity just because they are Muslims, so that is another factor. That is why you will notice that they will never want to recognize that Bangladeshi's have any significant foreign blood. Because that takes away their feeling of superiority over Shudra-Dalit low life Bangladeshi's. My attempt at uncovering the Indian psyche which shows up in this forum. (/rant)

 

[kobiraaz]

So essentially, Arabs and the recent Islamic converts in Andalusia clashed with each other, due to the racist attitudes of the Arabs. Once Andalusia was conquered, then again began this civil war amongst the governors of the city-states in Andalusia which so weakened their kingdoms that the other kingdoms united under the Roman Church simple swatted them away. So essentially you see, there is nothing called Unity. Powerlust prevails, whether then or now.

i dont know your source but you are wrong. New converts to Islam caused trouble as they sought for preferential treatment over non muslims for converting. That was the official story i found in every documentary including the one made by BBC!

 

[KS]

OT: (rant) From Indians, please do not expect objective answers. Their Islamophobia is so deep rooted that it oozes from every sentence they construct, may be history has something to do with it. For Bangladeshi's they also have a special hatred, because the low life Shudra, Dalit origin Bangladeshi's have now become uppity just because they are Muslims, so that is another factor. That is why you will notice that they will never want to recognize that Bangladeshi's have any significant foreign blood. Because that takes away their feeling of superiority over Shudra-Dalit low life Bangladeshi's. My attempt at uncovering the Indian psyche which shows up in this forum. (/rant)

Never knew having the blood of a foreign invader was considered a certificate of merit or something to be proud of. :/

 

[A.Rafay]

where is the unity? both stay AWAY from each others places. Shias are seen as more integrated(educated etc etc) people. why hide? Even Hindus join Ashuras in major Indian cities.
but, that doesn't mean Sunnis are hated.

LOL how will hindus join the ashura, What do they do, beating the right left chest LOL

 

[kobiraaz]

but I get the OP does not think so. Moreover why Alawites are not Muslims when they themselves are an offshoot of the Twelvers ?

Alawits dont pray 5 times. But 5 times prayer is ordered in Quran. So if anyone disobeys Quran how can he remain muslim?? Also
Muhammad(pbuh) is the last prophet. Anyone who thinks more prophets came after him isnt Muslim, so Ahmadia muslim is an oxymoron!!

 

[KS]

LOL how will hindus join the ashura, What do they do, beating the right left chest LOL

Google Hussainiya Brahmins.

 

[kobiraaz]

Never knew having the blood of a foreign invader was considered a certificate of merit or something to be proud of. :/

If you have time watch it. its available in youtube..... sorry i cant give link as YouTube is banned.

 

[somebozo]

i dont know your source but you are wrong. New converts to Islam caused trouble as they sought for preferential treatment over non muslims for converting. That was the official story i found in every documentary including the one made by BBC!

If was official because that is what the historians were forced to write. BCC will only show what the majority of books said. The fact is that Arab Muslims were given preferential treatment by the Ummyads and the new converts demanded the same. Not having their demands met led to mass scale civil strife. Dont you ever pay attention to the fact that despite being under Islamic rule for several centuries, Spain unlike other Christian and Roman territories of Constantinople, Syria, Jordan, Palestine, etc never became Islamic. Infact Spain has only 2.3% muslim population, an awfully pathetic figure for a country under Islamic rule for several centuries. In the final days if Muslim rule there were massive re-conversions to Christianity.

Same was the schiff faced in Medina where miniority "muhajirins" rules majority "ansars" and racism played a big role in break away of Persia from mainstream Sunni islam. Similar schiff let to break away of Sudan recently.

 

[A.Rafay]

Mine too.. Shia's are the more progressive and liberal ones as compared to the Wahabi Sunnis.. I hope Iranians becomes the leader of the Muslim world instead of the Arabs..

Iranians Cant become leaders of Muslim world, or it wont be called muslim World if they be leaders! of 1.4 billion muslims shias are 200 million or so, how can a Minority lead! Sunnis are true Muslims Leaders!

 

[DroneAcharya]

i dont know your source but you are wrong. New converts to Islam caused trouble as they sought for preferential treatment over non muslims for converting. That was the official story i found in every documentary including the one made by BBC!

The situation between the Berbers(recent converts) and the Arabs was something similar to what Yahya & Bhutto and Mujib underwent, not the exact circumstances but similar. The Arabs will to impose their beliefs upon the local Berbers incensed them so much that they often rose against them, conspiring with Christian kingdoms many a time to overthrow the Umayyads. Just like the Western Pakistanis used to ridicule the Easterners for their language, their food habits and their timidity, similarly the Berbers used to be at the receiving end of the ridicule. It was powerlust in the beginning that united them and later on when the Caliphate expolited them enough, frictions started to arise and to pacify them, the Umayyads started making the Berbers something like Governors of city-states.

 

[notsuperstitious]

Lol, peddle that nonsense of secularism elsewhere. Dhimmification was rife, and essentially, dhimmis were never given equal rights. And about Columbus, the only thing he learnt from the Moors was navigation using the Moon's phases out in the open ocean. The major part of his success in navigation did not come from the cartographs drawn by Muslims but his knowledge of easterlies and westerlies after years of sailing in the open seas. So again, peddle that nonsense elsewhere.

This is from the famous speech before the imperialist conquest - all the sugarcoating, leave it for these brainwashed fanboys to keep parroting forever.

9.You have heard that in this country_
1.»
there are a large number of ravishingly beautiful Greek maidens,

2.»
their graceful forms are draped in sumptuous gowns on which gleam pearls, coral, and purest gold, and they live in the palaces of royal kings

It is obvious all this was for spiritual reasons, to bring light to those in the dark etc etc

 

[KS]

Alawits dont pray 5 times. But 5 times prayer is ordered in Quran. So if anyone disobeys Quran how can he remain muslim?? Also

Many Shia pray just 3 times a day. And no they dont accept that Quran ordered Muslims to pray 5 times a day.

They cite many Hadiths to prove Muhammed just prayed 3 times a day.

 

[KS]

Iranians Cant become leaders of Muslim world, or it wont be called muslim World if they be leaders! of 1.4 billion muslims shias are 200 million or so, how can a Minority lead! Sunnis are true Muslims Leaders!

Exactly. So why this facade of Muslim unity when you dont consider the Shias as equal muslims to you ? And we get labelled as "Islamophobes" when we say the obvious