The Chinese Air Force's Super Weapon: Beware the J-11D Fighter

[gambit]

Nearly three decades later, a more serious attempt at radar "invisibility" was tried with the Horten Ho 229flying wingfighter-bomber, developed in Nazi Germany during the last years of World War II. In addition to the aircraft's shape, the majority of the Ho 229's wooden skin was bonded together using carbon-impregnated plywoodresins designed with the purported intention of absorbing radar waves. Testing performed in early 2009 by the Northrop-Grumman Corporation established that this compound, along with the aircraft's shape, would have rendered the Ho 229 virtually invisible to the top-end HF-band, 20-30 MHz primary signals of Britain's Chain Homeearly warning radar, provided the aircraft was traveling at high speed (approximately 550 mph (890 km/h)) at extremely low altitude - 50–100 feet (15–30 m).[3]

Horten Ho 229 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Ho-229 flying wing design was for long range, not for low radar observability. Everyone knew of the flying wing design, all the way back to the 1920s...

Northrop YB-35 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The B-35 was the brainchild of Jack Northrop, who made the flying wing the focus of his work during the 1930s.

The Horten Brothers certainly knew of radar and its effects on bodies, but what they did not know was how to manipulate those behaviors because in order to manipulate those behaviors, they must have all the computational powers of today's technologies. The use of carbon powder was only an attempt to reduce the effects of those behaviors, again, not because they had any precise knowledge on how to manipulate those behaviors.

 

[xunzi]

The Ho-229 flying wing design was for long range, not for low radar observability. The Horten Brothers certainly knew of radar and its effects on bodies, but what they did not know was how to manipulate those behaviors because in order to manipulate those behaviors, they must have all the computational powers of today's technologies. The use of carbon powder was only an attempt to reduce the effects of those behaviors, again, not because they had any precise knowledge on how to manipulate those behaviors.

Like I said, Nazi Germany was working on stealth aircraft concept before anyone else. The US certainly learn from that, and expand the concept of stealth using available technology at the time to make stealth aircraft.

 

[gambit]

Like I said, Nazi Germany was working on stealth aircraft concept before anyone else. The US certainly learn from that, and expand the concept of stealth using available technology at the time to make stealth aircraft.

And I will say it again...YOU ARE WRONG. Just because the Ho-229 was accidentally 'stealthy' because of the flying wing design, that does not logically compute that the Nazi knew of 'stealth'.

Flying wing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The flying wing configuration was studied extensively in the 1930s and 1940s, notably by Jack Northrop and Cheston L. Eshelman in the United States, and Alexander Lippischand the Horten brothers in Germany.

How many times do you want to be proven wrong ?

 

[xunzi]

And I will say it again...YOU ARE WRONG. Just because the Ho-229 was accidentally 'stealthy' because of the flying wing design, that does not logically compute that the Nazi knew of 'stealth'.

Flying wing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How many times do you want to be proven wrong ?

Accidental stealthy, what a joke! LOL

After the war, Reimar Horten said he mixed charcoal dust in with the wood glue to absorb electromagnetic waves (radar), which he believed could shield the aircraft from detection by British early warning ground-based radar that operated at 20 to 30 MHz (top end of the HF band), known as Chain Home.[9] A jet-powered flying wing design such as the Horten Ho 229 will have a smaller radar cross-section to conventional contemporary twin-engine aircraft. This is because the wings blended into the fuselage and there were no large propeller disks or vertical and horizontal tail surfaces to provide a typical identifiable radar signature.[3][4]

Does this seem like Horten is clueless about stealth? Like I said again, stealth concept was developed by Nazi Germany.

 

[antonius123]

And I will say it again...YOU ARE WRONG. Just because the Ho-229 was accidentally 'stealthy' because of the flying wing design, that does not logically compute that the Nazi knew of 'stealth'.

Flying wing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How many times do you want to be proven wrong ?

Stop being smart asrs .. you fraud expert

Nazi Stealth Aircraft - National Geographic Channel


Hitler's Stealth Fighter" Re-created
Brian Handwerk
for National Geographic News
June 25, 2009
Top stealth-plane experts have re-created a radical, nearly forgotten Nazi aircraft: the Horten 2-29, a retro-futuristic fighter that arrived too late in World War II to make it into mass production. (See Hitler's stealth fighter in pictures.)

The engineers' goal was to determine whether the so-called stealth fighter was truly radar resistant. In the process, they've uncovered new clues to just how close Nazi engineers were to unleashing a jet that some say could have changed the course of the war.



To replicate the Ho 2-29 late last year for a documentary premiering Sunday, a team from the Northrop Grumman defense-contracting corporation used original Nazi blueprints (see re-created blueprints of Hitler's stealth fighter) and the only surviving Ho 2-29, which has been stored in a U.S. government facility for more than 50 years.
"Hitler's Stealth Fighter" Re-created

 

[gambit]

Accidental stealthy, what a joke! LOL

After the war, Reimar Horten said he mixed charcoal dust in with the wood glue to absorb electromagnetic waves (radar), which he believed could shield the aircraft from detection by British early warning ground-based radar that operated at 20 to 30 MHz (top end of the HF band), known as Chain Home.[9] A jet-powered flying wing design such as the Horten Ho 229 will have a smaller radar cross-section to conventional contemporary twin-engine aircraft. This is because the wings blended into the fuselage and there were no large propeller disks or vertical and horizontal tail surfaces to provide a typical identifiable radar signature.[3][4]

Does this seem like Horten is clueless about stealth? Like I said again, stealth concept was developed by Nazi Germany.

Yeah...And everybody put radar absorbent paint on submarine periscopes in order to reduce radar detection. That mean EVERYBODY knew about 'stealth', right ?

Stop being smart asrs .. you fraud expert

What was your 'aviation' experience again ?

Both of you are buffoons. The proper context of 'stealth' is to be DELIBERATIVE, meaning you must have the ability to measure and control effects. No one had that ability back then. Dabbling in carbon powder in the hope that it would reduce radar detection is not 'stealth' but simply hope. The Horten did not have the measurement capabilities like we have today.

Like it or not, kids. The true father of 'stealth' is not Germany or Soviet, but the US.

The sad part for the fools who continues to believe and export the argument that Nazi Germany was the first to create a radar 'stealth' aircraft is that the F-117 looked nothing like the Ho-229. Lockheed knew of the Horten Brothers and their experimentation. If anything, at best partial credit for radar 'stealth' belongs more with Pyotr Ufimtsev than with the Horten Brothers.

 

[graphican]

An Indian loud-mouthing。Again.

Listen dude: it will take India at least another 20 years before it can produce independently a fighter of J-11D's calibre.

So shut up till you Indians can do something similar on your own hook.

Congratulations China.

Why two platforms which are fairly similar ? J-11 and J-16?

 

[chou.wong]

Congratulations China.

Why two platforms which are fairly similar ? J-11 and J-16?

they are from su-27and su-30!and another thing is picture is not j-11d ,the picture is wrong!

 

[antonius123]

Yeah...And everybody put radar absorbent paint on submarine periscopes in order to reduce radar detection. That mean EVERYBODY knew about 'stealth', right ?


What was your 'aviation' experience again ?

Both of you are buffoons. The proper context of 'stealth' is to be DELIBERATIVE, meaning you must have the ability to measure and control effects. No one had that ability back then. Dabbling in carbon powder in the hope that it would reduce radar detection is not 'stealth' but simply hope. The Horten did not have the measurement capabilities like we have today.

Like it or not, kids. The true father of 'stealth' is not Germany or Soviet, but the US.

The sad part for the fools who continues to believe and export the argument that Nazi Germany was the first to create a radar 'stealth' aircraft is that the F-117 looked nothing like the Ho-229. Lockheed knew of the Horten Brothers and their experimentation. If anything, at best partial credit for radar 'stealth' belongs more with Pyotr Ufimtsev than with the Horten Brothers.

LOL you are who the buffoon here judging how ignorant you are after people give you evidence and facts

You should think, if the NAZI has no intention of making it stealth then why would today engineers bother to prove the maker was successful or not in making the plane stealthy? Why would they applied basic shape, paint and laminating adhesive composition if they had no purpose to beat British radar?

The strong evidence has been shown to you by fellow here, but it seems you failed to understand or maybe so ignorant.

Stealth technology


Radar-testing H.IX V3 reproduction at the San Diego Air and Space Museum
After the war, Reimar Horten said he mixed charcoal dust in with the wood glue to absorb electromagnetic waves (radar), which he believed could shield the aircraft from detection by British early warning ground-based radar that operated at 20 to 30 MHz (top end of the HF band), known as Chain Home.[9] A jet-powered flying wing design such as the Horten Ho 229 will have a smaller radar cross-section to conventional contemporary twin-engine aircraft. This is because the wings blended into the fuselage and there were no large propeller disks or vertical and horizontal tail surfaces to provide a typical identifiable radar signature.[3][4]
Why would today engineers try to prove that ho-229 is really stealth if the maker (NAZI) has no claim nor purpose on stealth?
Horten Ho 229 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What a buffoon

 

[Akasa]

beware of a Su-27 clone that's been around for decades?

You mean the "clone" that is newer than the bulk of the United States' fighter designs?

I kinda get your point. Su-27/30/J11 w/e is a formidable platform, but it's cross section is pretty big. I wonder how it would fair against F-35 with Aim-120D/Meteor.

Fighter aircraft employ numerous methods to reduces its observability, including but not limited to increased use of composites (the green hue of the J-11D prototype is implicit of this), radar absorbent materials, and LPI radars (J-11D uses an AESA radar).

The F-35 will also have to contend with the prospect of the J-31 or J-20 entering service.

 

[j20blackdragon]

Congratulations China.

Why two platforms which are fairly similar ? J-11 and J-16?

Ask the USAF why they operate the F-15C and F-15E...

 

[خره مينه لګته وي]

Zachary Keck
April 30, 2015

Can anyone share Real pics of j11-D or conceptual design ?? Some members are saying that this is not J11-D..

 

[wiseone2]

Our Indian friends need to stop getting butthurt, here. LOL Reverse engineer is an art. The US/Soviet reversed Nazi German aircraft technology. In fact, stealth was Nazi Germany invention and the US expand on it. Also, the US reverse engineer Mig-21 during the Korean War because it was so deadly! So I would advice our local Indian friends to stop getting butthurt because India doesn't have that capability to understand how reverse engineer work. Another education for Indian. Reverse engineer is actually not an inferior product. Perhaps, you can say the initial batch might be inferior due to the fact the reverse product initial aim is to understand the original design but not the upgraded version. Upgrade version aim to improve upon the original aircraft potential, otherwise what is the point of reverse engineer?

mig-21 during the korean war ??

 

[gambit]

LOL you are who the buffoon here judging how ignorant you are after people give you evidence and facts

You should think, if the NAZI has no intention of making it stealth then why would today engineers bother to prove the maker was successful or not in making the plane stealthy? Why would they applied basic shape, paint and laminating adhesive composition if they had no purpose to beat British radar?

The strong evidence has been shown to you by fellow here, but it seems you failed to understand or maybe so ignorant.

It is only YOUR distortion of my argument that the Nazi had no intention of making a 'stealth' aircraft. But it takes more than intention, kid.

My rebuttal to yours and the Chinese claim is here...

Fundamentals of Stealth Design & Concepts of RCS Reduction | Page 5

Now what was your 'aviation experience' or 'aviation study' again ?

 

[Koovie]

Our Indian friends need to stop getting butthurt, here. LOL Reverse engineer is an art. The US/Soviet reversed Nazi German aircraft technology. In fact, stealth was Nazi Germany invention and the US expand on it. Also, the US reverse engineer Mig-21 during the Korean War because it was so deadly! So I would advice our local Indian friends to stop getting butthurt because India doesn't have that capability to understand how reverse engineer work. Another education for Indian. Reverse engineer is actually not an inferior product. Perhaps, you can say the initial batch might be inferior due to the fact the reverse product initial aim is to understand the original design but not the upgraded version. Upgrade version aim to improve upon the original aircraft potential, otherwise what is the point of reverse engineer?

There hasnt been a SINGLE Indian comment so far (Till Post #13).... says a lot about your complexes