The character of General Zia-ul-haq

[*Awan*]

2 things



a.) we don't need to threaten israel or even think about them....i dont know why some people on this forum feel the need to want to pick fights with a country that is geographically far away; a country which today does not represent an existential threat to Pakistan. We foiled a nefarious plot of theirs some years ago, but since we went nuclear they haven't overtly been a threat to Pakistan. The fact that the indians feel cozy and want to cuddle with them should raise some eyebrows, but nothing to get paranoid about.

can you write on that particular plot.or at least pm me.thanks in advance.
i don't understand why some of my country men have love for Israel?look at weapons India is getting from them.although it is understandable that they most sophisticated weapons in the world and Indians have money but there is upper limit of every thing.Americans are there for global policing.for example what is the need of introducing AWACS in this region,their input in indian air defense systems and many more.Also their presence in Kashmir,where indians are raising anti terrorist units with their help.
do you really think that Indians are capable of making their place on its own on world stage?
and what do you say about zionism?do you have any idea of it?do you really think that establishment of greater Israel is their ultimate goal?your say...

On soviet eradication from Afghanistan --an Islamic country -- the Mossad was actually on our side, ironically.

they were their to milk money from yanks,later that money was used in building Israeli military complex.what Israel has to do with Soviets?

We quietly allowed them to operate in FATA, under some watchful eye. This is confirmed.

you have half information.why were they here at the very first place?
actually few of them crossed the red line.we put bullets in their heads.and no one knows except 3-4 people where their bodies are buried.

b.) Wahhabism is a 20th Century phenomenon. The Britishers --who were experts at the time at colonizing and screwing much of the developing world - needed Wahhabi movement to pick up pace so as to use them as a Bulwark against the Ottoman Khilafat --which, unfortunately, succeeded. The Brits used emotional and mental games -- promising to give them ''independence'' and an ''end to slavery'' in exchange for their resistance against the ''Osmanlilar''

does not hadith of Rasoolallah is enough on this topic?

Ataturk was very smart, and picked up on this early -- as it is, the Ottomans were on their last legs.

actually things are not as simple as they are seem.in breaking of khilafat their was home work of 50 years.
jews penetrated upper ranks of powers.
we have results in shape of 'young turk" movement.

Though i dont agree with many policies of the General, and while i DO agree that many of the negative after-effects are being felt today --- I stand by General's decision to support the jihad against the soviets.

Not only did the soviets represent an existential threat to Pakistan --in her backyard; the soviets were instrumental in arming the indians. Pakistan was hungry for revenge, and Alhamdolillah, it was attained satisfactorily when the bear-huggers scurried home and the aggressive empire collapsed.

100% agreed.
i wonder why enemy of ZIa forget Soviet role in 71.no doubt revenge was due.

 

[DV RULES]

Thanks to ZIA that we lost more than 10000 citizens in the mess he responsible for.
Thanks to ZIA that AK-47 introduced in every corner of country.
Thanks to ZIA that Pakistan fell into mud of terrorism from we still trying to pull out our self.
Thanks to ZIA he injected word JIHAD in Islamiyat & in ordinary citizen ideology.
Thanks to ZIA people of Rawalpindi suffered from his black marketing blasts in Ojhari camp.

There are many stories about his character but characters respectable by its decision for community, society, country in short and in long run.

 

[Sinnerman108]

Thanks to ZIA that we lost more than 10000 citizens in the mess he responsible for.
Thanks to ZIA that AK-47 introduced in every corner of country.
Thanks to ZIA that Pakistan fell into mud of terrorism from we still trying to pull out our self.
Thanks to ZIA he injected word JIHAD in Islamiyat & in ordinary citizen ideology.
Thanks to ZIA people of Rawalpindi suffered from his black marketing blasts in Ojhari camp.

There are many stories about his character but characters respectable by its decision for community, society, country in short and in long run.

And why has your analysis stopped here ?
carry on please ...

 

[*Awan*]

Thanks to ZIA that we lost more than 10000 citizens in the mess he responsible for.
Thanks to ZIA that AK-47 introduced in every corner of country.
Thanks to ZIA that Pakistan fell into mud of terrorism from we still trying to pull out our self.

Thanks to ZIA people of Rawalpindi suffered from his black marketing blasts in Ojhari camp.

money we don't have,technology we don't have.my dear sir in order balance the equation their must be give and take.
in real world you can't have things 100% to your wish.you have to make some compromise.

please do shed some light on the benefits of khalistan movement,breaking of soviets not just from a Pakistani point of view but from islamic point of view.how much muslims of central asia get benefited from this,how much turks benefited.
his more than unconditional support of AQ khan.
it may be possible that he was planning to use muahideen in kashmir,american get wind of it and in order to preserve the strategic balance they took him out.

Thanks to ZIA he injected word JIHAD in Islamiyat & in ordinary citizen ideology.

does he modified quran and hadith?

 

[GOD OF WAR]

Well, he may have been a fine man in his personal capacity. However as a head of state one has to think & act beyond personal traits.

Only a man of high caliber and good personality must be head of state. Its precisely one's peculiar 'personal traits' that enable him to think beyond. Zia may be guilty of some things but he had the makings of a leader. You think ruling the neighbour country of a global hotspot for 10 years, and getting the 'job' done as Charlie Wilson put it, does not entail leadership traits?

He ' lured' the US into Af as mentioned above - to what avail ? Look what it has done to Pak & the region .

What would you have done? Bearing in mind that USSR had strategic aspirations (and still does) for reaching Pakistan's hot water ports. Plus the fact that a 10 time bigger and highly aggressive enemy is waiting to pounce on you on an opportune moment? The goat fcuk that you see is becoz of two reasons, and they cannot be attributed to Pakistan or Gen Zia. One being that the US were aware of Zia's Islamist aspirations and they feared an Islamist regime (needless to say). Secondly, Zia was controling Afghanistan and the same could fast become very freindly to Pakistan, even part of Pakistan, plus there was a plethora of new muslim countries which could become a huge Islamic block under Zia's influence. Obviously again unsuited to Uncle S(h)AM. There were other reasons as well.


He was very religious - good. But did he have to induce religion into all streams of governence & society ? It was after all the existing system that propelled him to the helm. He ended up undermining the nation & the orgnisation he belonged to.

Islam is a Muslim's lifestyle, and YES it needs to be innoculated in political and governance affairs as well as all echelons of social fabric. The fact that muslims have constrained Islam to the mosques is our biggest blunder. A sytematic study of the political governance paragon of Islam can easily beat democracy hands down, but Islamic political ideology is being replaced by all other idiotic political systems in order to systematically supress the former. Having said that, since you are a non muslim, i donot expect you to understand. No offense.

Rarely do Generals make good admistrators unless they are open minded which in this case he wasnt.

Gengis Khan, Salahuddin Ayubi, Degual, Napoleon.... all generals, all great administrators and all also labeled as myopic and outlandish by some, coin always has two sides dear. And opinions are just like a55hole, everybody'd got one. Just kidding

Not scumbing to 'worldly pleasures' is a personal trait & preference, running a nation and setting it on a course to last for decades is a collective action that needed vision beyond the immediate.

Sucumbing to worldly pleasures is a sign of a weak character and character has great importance in Islahm ans all other religions.That's why the taliban are such a hard adversery to beat as well. And thats why the modern day Arabs are so weak. If you leave character and religion aside, then you are left with either a pimp or a prostitute.
Zia's Vision: Pan Islamism starting with Pakistan's lead role.

 

[GOD OF WAR]

It was cold Cold war Americans and Russian were at war long before The Devil stole power in Pakistan he didn't bring Americans to Afghanistan Americans came there to fight the Russians.

Then what took the yanks 3-4 years to agree to fight the commies? agreed they had their interests but Zia marketted the war to them as THE opportunity to repay Vietnam and break the Russian Bear. The Yanks were in fact very very reluctant at first to contribute or engage themselves in this war.

 

[umair_sindhi]

I hold him in great esteem for his sheer sense of integrity and self-esteem as a Pakistani. I salute him for his forward and aggressive policy against the enemies who posed the existential threat to Pakistan. His reign will be remembered as a golden era of Pakistan's foreign policy.We considered ourselves superior to our regional foes and this was made possible by keeping the enemy at bay and shifting the theater of conflict to the hostile territory. And because of this the USSR imploded and India remained dormant for the most part on our eastern frontiers. He was a right man, at right time for a right job. May his soul rest in peace...

Malik Saheb I respect your opinion , but I would like to ask a simple thing, why he converted the war with Soviets into Jihad? Do you believe that he nurtured the seeds of terrorism that are working their job right now.?

 

[umair_sindhi]

1. Brig Afzal Janjua, the night duty officer at ISI, woke up President Zia at middle of the night in the President's Hse. Janjua informed him that the Soviets were pulling out of Afghanistan. Zia called for his "musallah" and offered two raqats of prayers. Prayers over he looked into Janjua's eyes and the gazed away as in a distance. He said, "Son, today begins the birth of many Pakistans."

2. After two Frankenstein presidents, both of whom were characterless debauch and drunkards, in Zia Pakistan got a disciplined, honest and upright man of character. Zia truly believed in his destiny as a soldier of Islam. As Pakistan's leader he understood Pak Army and Pakistan as a nation were meant to serve Islam. He himself not only projected but sincerely considered himself as a humble servant of Islam.

3. His greatest enemy was WCC which kept quiet as long as the Afghan Jihad was on. Thereafter, they set in motion to eliminate this dangerous hindrance to their plans. Character assassination through rumor mongering, media doctoring, disinformation, etc were all deployed against him. Zia new fully well that WCC was after his life and was v careful in his movements. But WCC accepted own casualty to blow him up.

4. Zia was a great Muslim. He was also a human being not a firista that there would be no frailties. But he was honest, pious, dedicated, without mistresses, and a great patriot. Allah SWT will surely accept his soul in heaven.

If Zia thought that Pakistan, being a nation has to serve for Islam then why he chosen USA to be his Master. Was he not a pawn in the mighty Cold War? If he was the man of a character , why he tried to use religion for doing politics? He made and supported a terrorist organization or not?

I dont know about ALLAH SWT, but people of Pakistan as well the human being on earth always curse him because of the seeds that he sown.

 

[umair_sindhi]

Indians are having cramps because of Khalistan.
Sindhi and ppp supporters don't like him because of Bhutto
shias don't like him because he created "lashker e jangvi" and sipae sahaba who stopped the gift of shiaism during Iranian revolution.
liberals don't like him because of his religious reforms.

well people we understand your pain.

may Allah forgive his sins and raise his darajat in jannah.

It's not the matter of likeness or dislike but its the matter of sufferings that are the product of his sick policies and his own version of Islam. If he were in the favor of Muslims and Islam he has supported Bhutto, Qadafi, Shah Faisal and Ahemd seokarno in making Muslim bloc....
If he has supported Islam then he might had arranged OIC in its inception years.

Well those people who like him I pray for them.

 

[Sinnerman108]

If Zia thought that Pakistan, being a nation has to serve for Islam then why he chosen USA to be his Master. Was he not a pawn in the mighty Cold War? If he was the man of a character , why he tried to use religion for doing politics? He made and supported a terrorist organization or not?

I dont know about ALLAH SWT, but people of Pakistan as well the human being on earth always curse him because of the seeds that he sown.

You will be surprised if a vote was held today, to see more people admire Gen Zia then otherwise.

Being a Muslims, we are bound to run the affairs of life and every thing we are part of, as per principles of Islam.
Thus Gen Zia had every right to run Pakistan by Islam; stop calling it "religion in politics" and "use of religion" etc etc etc.

IT IS A SIN, FOR A MUSLIM RULER NOT TO RUN THE STATE BY ISLAM.

Now, please tell us which terrorist organization did he make ? because we are unaware of this.

Now, when you have done your research, come back and ask questions if you don't understand a particular thing,
else feel free to edit your posts.

---------- Post added at 11:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:26 AM ----------

It's not the matter of likeness or dislike but its the matter of sufferings that are the product of his sick policies and his own version of Islam. If he were in the favor of Muslims and Islam he has supported Bhutto, Qadafi, Shah Faisal and Ahemd seokarno in making Muslim bloc....
If he has supported Islam then he might had arranged OIC in its inception years.

Well those people who like him I pray for them.

Please refer to Gen Zia's deliberations @ OIC !

Why do you make comments without FIRST studying history ?

 

[Aamir Hussain]

Sucumbing to worldly pleasures is a sign of a weak character and character has great importance in Islahm ans all other religions.That's why the taliban are such a hard adversery to beat as well. And thats why the modern day Arabs are so weak. If you leave character and religion aside, then you are left with either a pimp or a prostitute.
Zia's Vision: Pan Islamism starting with Pakistan's lead role.

Interesting where this vision of Pan Islamism got us. We are in a deep do do and no one to pull us out. So much for the Crescent around our friends in the East and taming the Bear.

Countries like Pakistan should stick with getting their house in order first and than think twice before dabbling their fingers in some one else's war. We need to understand that going Nuclear does not necessarily mean we are in the the big league.

 

[GOD OF WAR]

Interesting where this vision of Pan Islamism got us. We are in a deep do do and no one to pull us out. So much for the Crescent around our friends in the East and taming the Bear.

Countries like Pakistan should stick with getting their house in order first and than think twice before dabbling their fingers in some one else's war. We need to understand that going Nuclear does not necessarily mean we are in the the big league.

Some times putting your own house in order involves trimming the 'neighbor's' tree and fixing the gutter 'outside' your house.

---------- Post added at 09:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:57 PM ----------

Well what do you know???!!! I just made Major.

Thanks Mods.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

When the kitchen is on fire one does not go out to clip the hedges of one's neighbour!!!

It is all about setting priorities my friend.

P.S. Congrats on becoming a "Major."

 

[lkozhi]

ZIa was a master in the art of flattery. He used to call up morarji every day and ask about how much urine to have what time is it morning or evenings best etc. In one such call morarji told him about pak nuke program. Thus general got that we had raw spies within pak nuke program and rooted them out.

 

[araz]

Thanks to ZIA that we lost more than 10000 citizens in the mess he responsible for.
Thanks to ZIA that AK-47 introduced in every corner of country.
Thanks to ZIA that Pakistan fell into mud of terrorism from we still trying to pull out our self.
Thanks to ZIA he injected word JIHAD in Islamiyat & in ordinary citizen ideology.
Thanks to ZIA people of Rawalpindi suffered from his black marketing blasts in Ojhari camp.



There are many stories about his character but characters respectable by its decision for community, society, country in short and in long run.

These things would have happened irrespective of whether Zia was in power or not. We had war ongoing in our neighbour hood and a porous border would have meant an influx of weapons and drugs. However I fully agree that his stay was detrimental for Pakistan and the political setup of the country.
Araz
Araz