The Burning South - Live Simulation Thread

[SQ8]

 

[SQ8]

 

[SQ8]

News Flash - WAR has broken out!

The Indian air force launched a large scale attack this morning on multiple Pakistan Air bases.

However, early reports suggest the losses for the IAF have been severe due to Pakistan's AD net.

There have been some PAF airfields put out of commission and a large stock of Pakistan's SAM missiles have been expended. However, the PAF is still generally intact even with sporadic damage across its airbases.

All in all Indian Losses:
LOSSES:

-------------------------------

13x Jaguar IS [Darin 3]
7x LCA Tejas Mk1
1x MiG-21bis UPG Fishbed N [Bison]
4x MiG-29UPG Fulcrum A
7x Mirage 2000-5EDA
8x Mirage 2000H-5
6x Rafale C
6x Su-30MKI Flanker H
9x Su-30MKI Mk2 Flanker H


EXPENDITURES:

------------------

7x Astra
2x AA-12 Adder B [R-77-1, RVV-SD]
2x AA-12 Adder C [R-77M]
1x AN/SSQ-53F DIFAR
1x AN/SSQ-77B VLAD
4x AS-17 Krypton A [Kh-31A, ASM]
28x Rudram-1
16x AS-17 Krypton D [Kh-31PD, ARM]
4x Derby
87x Harop
4x Meteor
11x PJ-10 Brahmos Blk III [Land-Attack]
2x Python 5
26x Standoff Runway Attack Munition (RAM) CB [24 x Runway Penetrators]
25x SA-21b Growler [40N6]
4x SCALP EG
8x SPICE 1000 GPS/EO [Mk83]
10x ALFA Loitering munition
2x SPICE 2000 GPS/EO [Mk84]
32x SPICE 250 GPS/EO
7x LRSAM

Pakistani Losses:
LOSSES:

2x 30mm China LD-2000 [Type 730] [Cargo]
8x 35mm Twin Oerlikon [UAR-1021 Skyguard FCR] [Cargo]
4x A/C Hangar (2x Medium Aircraft)
3x A/C Hardened Aircraft Shelter (1x Medium Aircraft)
2x Al Khalid [MBT-2000] Main Battle Tank [Cargo]
1x Building (Airport Terminal)
2x F-16A Falcon ADF
4x F-16AM Falcon MLU (2x S-400 kill)
1x F-16BM Falcon MLU
1x F-16DJ Blk 52+ Falcon [Peace Drive] (S-400 kill)
1x HQ-16A [LY-80] TEL [Cargo]
1x J-10C Vigorous Dragon
5x JF-17 Thunder Blk 2
6x M113A1 APC [Cargo]
4x Mirage 5D ( lost in HAS)
1x Mirage 5DR(Shot down by Tejas)
1x Radar (AN/TPS-77)
1x Saab 2000 AEW&C [Erieye] (S-400 kill)
1x Vehicle (China HT-233 [HQ-9]) [Cargo]
1x Vehicle (China YLC-2V) [Cargo]
3x Vehicle (UAR-1021 Skyguard) [Cargo]
1x Y-8F-400 Cub [ZDK-03 Karakoram Eagle] (S-400 kill)
3 x 4000m Runway (Rafiqui,Mianwali and Bholari)
2 x 2500m Runway(Rafiqui and Mianwali)



EXPENDITURES:

------------------

5x 23mm Type 23-3 Burst [40 rnds]
4x 30mm China H/PJ-12 [Type 730, 240 rnds]
26x AIM-120C-5 AMRAAM P3I.2
1x AN/SSQ-62D DICASS
2x Aspide 2000
16x Hatf 6 [Conventional, Shaheen 2]
61x HQ-16A [SA-17 Semi-Copy]
17x HQ-16B
3x HQ-17 [SA-15 Copy]
295x HQ-9A
44x HQ-9B
13x PL-12
10x PL-15
6x PL-9
6x RB 70 Bolide

@ghazi52 @araz @The Eagle @The Accountant @That Guy @Irfan Baloch @PanzerKiel @AgNoStiC MuSliM @Imran Khan @PAKISTANFOREVER @waz @Windjammer @KaiserX @niaz @farok84 @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @MastanKhan @krash @FOOLS_NIGHTMARE @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Cookie Monster @Bratva @Foxtrot Alpha @Rafael @Rafi @Trango Towers @TNT @Indus Pakistan @Falcon26 @Norwegian @LeGenD @Iltutmish @notorious_eagle @Akh1112 @mingle @Dazzler @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Tipu7 @Horus @Ark_Angel @SQ8 @Goenitz @messiach @TaimiKhan @SecularNationalist @farok84 @Blacklight @Meengla @Ahmet Pasha @White and Green with M/S @ARMalik @Sainthood 101 @Zibago @Jango @Reichsmarschall @Bleek @Dual Wielder @Smoke @RescueRanger @Trango Towers @Asimzranger @FuturePAF @Imad.Khan @forcetrip @baqai @blain2
@Ghost 125

This is a complex simulation with over 1000 elements in play at one time each with their respective parameters that is stressing the limits of what Command Modern Operations is capable of doing. We havent even reached land engagement point!

What is clear is that both sides need to think of UCAVs in the future as they both possess a strong air defense system. Lets see what happens next!

 

[baqai]

wow Bohlari, i think one of the key points to have another base in southern region was that in comparison to Masroor it was more towards inland and would had been a difficult target to achieve in case of a war

Saab and ZDK being shot down by S400, that's not that surprising as they were/are/will be prime targets but certainly alarming

 

[Cookie Monster]

I understand that this is coming from a simulation...
...and that what I'm about to say is limited by my human brain which is not as capable as this simulator taking into account thousands of variables...
...but based on recent real world examples the results posted above(carrying out of airstrikes) seem a bit unrealistic. Both India and Pakistan don't yet have any extraordinary stealth capabilities. Any large scale intrusion will be detected by both countries since both of them have radars peering well into each other's territory. Even limited intrusions just recently were challenged by both sides relatively quickly. I can see some limited bombing being possible with stand off weapons...possibly using some features like mountainous terrain to mask the approach for as long as possible...
...but this is only possible at small scale. If a simultaneous bombing of forward bases is to be done...that would require deployment of a massive fleet...which would be detected by the other side far too quickly...giving them ample time to get their assets airborne.

In conclusion what I'm getting at...
...it would be more likely to see targets like hardened shelters, runways, forward bases, amunition depots, air defense batteries, radar sites being hit...in a massive air raid
...than fighter jets parked on the ground...
...at least in case of India/Pak IMO.

In any case...this is a fun undertaking...and now I'm wondering why didn't we do this on PDF before.

 

[Raja Porus]

I understand that this is coming from a simulation...
...and that what I'm about to say is limited by my human brain which is not as capable as this simulator taking into account thousands of variables...
...but based on recent real world examples the results posted above(carrying out of airstrikes) seem a bit unrealistic. Both India and Pakistan don't yet have any extraordinary stealth capabilities. Any large scale intrusion will be detected by both countries since both of them have radars peering well into each other's territory. Even limited intrusions just recently were challenged by both sides relatively quickly. I can see some limited bombing being possible with stand off weapons...possibly using some features like mountainous terrain to mask the approach for as long as possible...
...but this is only possible at small scale. If a simultaneous bombing of forward bases is to be done...that would require deployment of a massive fleet...which would be detected by the other side far too quickly...giving them ample time to get their assets airborne.

In conclusion what I'm getting at...
...it would be more likely to see targets like hardened shelters, runways, forward bases, amunition depots, air defense batteries, radar sites being hit...in a massive air raid
...than fighter jets parked on the ground...
...at least in case of India/Pak IMO.

In any case...this is a fun undertaking...and now I'm wondering why didn't we do this on PDF before.

That is exactly what the sim has shown. Once the large IAF force took off, it was detected and PAF put up fighters and AD was alerted. As a result 61 IAF fighters ( of which only one was Mig-21!) were shot down while PAF lost 17. Most of the kills were by ADS. Moreover only a few SOWs were able to make through and caused only some damage to their intended targets.

 

[baqai]

That is exactly what the sim has shown. Once the large IAF force took off, it was detected and PAF put up fighters and AD was alerted. As a result 61 IAF fighters ( of which only one was Mig-21!) were shot down while PAF lost 17. Most of the kills were by ADS. Moreover only a few SOWs were able to make through and caused only some damage to their intended targets.

As per sim India looses 6 Rafale, slightly confused with this and how simulation is calculating and what are the variables, in comparison 1 J-10C is down.

 

[Joe Shearer]

wow Bohlari, i think one of the key points to have another base in southern region was that in comparison to Masroor it was more towards inland and would had been a difficult target to achieve in case of a war

Saab and ZDK being shot down by S400, that's not that surprising as they were/are/will be prime targets but certainly alarming

Yes, but did you notice - was it mentioned? - what a lot of damage the Chinese rip-off of the S/300 did? I think it inflicted the greatest casualties on us.

I understand that this is coming from a simulation...
...and that what I'm about to say is limited by my human brain which is not as capable as this simulator taking into account thousands of variables...
...but based on recent real world examples the results posted above(carrying out of airstrikes) seem a bit unrealistic. Both India and Pakistan don't yet have any extraordinary stealth capabilities. Any large scale intrusion will be detected by both countries since both of them have radars peering well into each other's territory. Even limited intrusions just recently were challenged by both sides relatively quickly. I can see some limited bombing being possible with stand off weapons...possibly using some features like mountainous terrain to mask the approach for as long as possible...
...but this is only possible at small scale. If a simultaneous bombing of forward bases is to be done...that would require deployment of a massive fleet...which would be detected by the other side far too quickly...giving them ample time to get their assets airborne.

In conclusion what I'm getting at...
...it would be more likely to see targets like hardened shelters, runways, forward bases, amunition depots, air defense batteries, radar sites being hit...in a massive air raid
...than fighter jets parked on the ground...
...at least in case of India/Pak IMO.

In any case...this is a fun undertaking...and now I'm wondering why didn't we do this on PDF before.

A lot of people are wondering that.

Incidentally, you and other rat-finks who are deep into your popcorn left all the heavy lifting to be done by 2 or 3 people. If you knew what it cost to feed in the date that both sides submitted, you would be raising a subscription for buying The Man an espresso machine for home.

As per sim India looses 6 Rafale, slightly confused with this and how simulation is calculating and what are the variables, in comparison 1 J-10C is down.

It was based on who was attacking, and what was being attacked. These were not random numbers or aircraft types. Each side had very specific plans.

 

[Prince of the Moon]

Hi,

I have been a lurker at this forum since around 2009-2010. Made an account just to follow the Russian Invasion and this simulation.

I have some amateurish questions. How soon can the runways at the three airfields be repaired, if possible at all? Is it possible to have some Cruise Missiles on standby, targeted at the S400s? Is it possible to suppress the S400 using EW as soon as the mobilisation of 100+ fighter jets is detected using both airborne and ground based assets?

Good to see no JF17 blk 3 has been damaged.

Can we also get details of the complete indian package?

Apologies in advance if these questions are against the rules of this thread (and for being silly too).

 

[Raja Porus]

Hi,

I have been a lurker at this forum since around 2009-2010. Made an account just to follow the Russian Invasion and this simulation.

I have some amateurish questions. How soon can the runways at the three airfields be repaired, if possible at all? Is it possible to have some Cruise Missiles on standby, targeted at the S400s? Is it possible to suppress the S400 using EW as soon as the mobilisation of 100+ fighter jets is detected using both airborne and ground based assets?

Good to see no JF17 blk 3 has been damaged.

Apologies in advance if these questions are against the rules of this thread (and for being silly too).

Will be answered at the end of the sim.

Chinese rip-off of the S/300

Hehe. That thing did frustrate your team

Incidentally, you and other rat-finks who are deep into your popcorn left all the heavy lifting to be done by 2 or 3 people. If you knew what it cost to feed in the date that both sides submitted, you would be raising a subscription for buying The Man an espresso machine for home.

Exactly.

was based on who was attacking, and what was being attacked. These were not random numbers or aircraft types. Each side had very specific plans.

Just before people say it is unrealistic. I want to say that @PanzerKiel is the referee and a very strict one who doesn't allow anything unrealistic. Moreover, the numbers of all the equipment included are even less than the projected.

 

[Asimzranger]

Is naval battles as part of this simulation

 

[JX-1]

How soon can the runways at the three airfields be repaired

Modern American, Pakistani and Indian teams can repair airfields within six hours.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Is naval battles as part of this simulation

Wouldn't you like to know?

Modern American, Pakistani and Indian teams can repair airfields within six hours.

Deleted, because I want them to start looking at their watches in six hours.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Both India and Pakistan don't yet have any extraordinary stealth capabilities.

They don't.

Any large scale intrusion will be detected by both countries since both of them have radars peering well into each other's territory.

They were.

Even limited intrusions just recently were challenged by both sides relatively quickly.

They did.

I can see some limited bombing being possible with stand off weapons...possibly using some features like mountainous terrain to mask the approach for as long as possible...
...but this is only possible at small scale.

No, not so.
We didn't study what the US did, carefully and meticulously, and paid the price. Never again.

If a simultaneous bombing of forward bases is to be done...that would require deployment of a massive fleet...which would be detected by the other side far too quickly...giving them ample time to get their assets airborne.

Again, not so. We should have done it differently. We paid a hefty price for doing it the old-fashioned way.

...it would be more likely to see targets like hardened shelters, runways, forward bases, amunition depots, air defense batteries, radar sites being hit...in a massive air raid
...than fighter jets parked on the ground...
...at least in case of India/Pak IMO.

Mebbe yes, mebbe no.

 

[Joe Shearer]

How soon can the runways at the three airfields be repaired, if possible at all?

Not a fair question, not while the sim is still working on things, not while we are trying to look deep into the eyes of the blokes across the table, and figure out what they're thinking. Anything you ask now is unfair; anything you comment now, is fair, so long as you don't ask for an answer, or a retort.

Is it possible to have some Cruise Missiles on standby, targeted at the S400s?

Have you seen a Christmas Tree, all lit up and begging to be loved and appreciated?
You have?
OK, now you know what an S/400 doesn't look like.
Just kidding. Wait for the end.

Is it possible to suppress the S400 using EW as soon as the mobilisation of 100+ fighter jets is detected using both airborne and ground based assets?

Wot a brilliant idea it ij, sir-jee!

Is it possible to suppress the S400 using EW as soon as the mobilisation of 100+ fighter jets is detected using both airborne and ground based assets?

Next time you might never get a massed raid.

Good to see no JF17 blk 3 has been damaged.

These were never specifically targeted.

Can we also get details of the complete indian package?

We could do a package deal.

We'll give you the next twenty days' plans as well.

What we'd like in exchange is the Karachi Stock Exchange building. Believe it might be had at a discount?

and now I'm wondering why didn't we do this on PDF before.

Because SQ8 and PanzerKiel didn't pull us out of our ruts.