The Battle for Bajaur - PA seizes control

[Spring Onion]

Yes understood, however; we were already warned about this and yet we allowed the people from the friendly country to tavel without a strong security escort

How many times must we fail before the so called security agencies begin assuring us of security

Keeping these things quiet is a major mistake - Pakistanis do not know which side they are on and the incompetence demonstrated does not allow the Pakistani people to be on the side of the government -- Like Osama said, people want toput their bet on the winning horse, thus far it isn't Pakistan.

Sir they were warned and those who had been kidnapped the two were told not to visit the troubled area.

 

[Ali.009]

There is nothing wrong with the army, some people here on forums are too ignorant and fall for the propaganda created against the Pak army, by whole media. Its just all to demoralize the nation and army. Kindly ban all the members spreading hate against army. Such hypocrties shouldnt be allowed here.

 

[muse]

Jana

That's hardly sufficient - the friendly country nationals are guests in Pakistan and the behaviour of the security forces is not up to the standards Pakistanis expect in the treatment of nationals of the friendly country.

It is this easy going attitude that exacerbates an already tense situation.

 

[Spring Onion]

Jana

That's hardly sufficient - the friendly country nationals are guests in Pakistan and the behaviour of the security forces is not up to the standards Pakistanis expect in the treatment of nationals of the friendly country.

It is this easy going attitude that exacerbates an already tense situation.

muse there are hunderds of people from other countries who are working i private firms of their countries here in Pakistan just like people from Pakistani companies are working there in their countries.

So it is not the responsibility of Pakistan Army to give these private employees security.

Had you ever seen that other countries have provided Army security to private companies' employees from other countries????



i am confused over your taking on Pakistan army where it is not even justified after joining the elite group just an observasion

 

[muse]

Jana


You are misunderstanding the point - It is the nations of the friendly country that I am talking about, not every foreigner in Pakistan.

We know that these nationals of the friendly country are targetted - that this is now if I am not mistaken the fouth time this has happened -- that's 4 times too many, or at least 3 times too many - isn't that so?

The State under Musharraf gave the undertaking of the Pak Fauj to protect these nationals because their involvment is of strategic importance - and there is no other way around the fact that we have failed the undertaking.

As for taking on Pak Fauj - That is not what I am doing, on the other hand, if support means acceptance of negligence and dereliction, count me out.

Critical review and criticism is vital - vital - for the refinement of any human processes. Why are there any grounds for criticism? This is the more important question - the Fauj's mian job is the elimination of enemies of Pakistan and if it were doing the job it is supposedly designed for, there would be no grounds for such criticism, isn't that right?

 

[Spring Onion]

Jana


You are misunderstanding the point - It is the nations of the friendly country that I am talking about, not every foreigner in Pakistan.

We know that these nationals of the friendly country are targetted - that this is now if I am not mistaken the fouth time this has happened -- that's 4 times too many, or at least 3 times too many - isn't that so?

The State under Musharraf gave the undertaking of the Pak Fauj to protect these nationals because their involvment is of strategic importance - and there is no other way around the fact that we have failed the undertaking.

As for taking on Pak Fauj - That is not what I am doing, on the other hand, if support means acceptance of negligence and dereliction, count me out.

Critical review and criticism is vital - vital - for the refinement of any human processes. Why are there any grounds for criticism? This is the more important question - the Fauj's mian job is the elimination of enemies of Pakistan and if it were doing the job it is supposedly designed for, there would be no grounds for such criticism, isn't that right?

Sir indeed the people who are working/worked in vital projects like Gomal Zam and other joint ventures between, it is the responsibility of the governement our civil administration to provide them security either by its own or by asigning the task to the army.

When Chiens engineers were kidnapped by Abdullah Mehsud well this charchter was indeed suspiciouse and his release by US from gitmo was and still carries a big question mark.

Plus his presence in Balochistan also proves his links with anti-Pakistan elements.

Besides if you follow the chronology of kidnapping and killing of Chines Engineers here in Pakistan its clear who are behind these.

The Chines were kidnapped/killed in Balochistan area which is considerd the strong hold of BLA elements. BLA operates in that area and we all know who is BLA and who is behind BLA.

The chines citizens who were abducted by Ghazi brothers and their gang, well one wonders why only Chines massage parlor's employees were kidnapped by them why not others.
There are many places were professional prostitution in Islamabad is going on.
Many locals are also part of the business of massag parlors and what not.

Why they target only Chines???

There are reports of links between these idiot ghazi brothers and Mehsud. again its clear some elements want to creat rift between Pakistan and China.

Atleast such incidents if do not creat a big rift but these do affect the policies of China towards Pakistan.

Now again I would say sir this is not the responsibility of Pakistan Army to provide security to people working in private firms even if they are from friendly countries.

 

[muse]

Jana

I was beginning to think there must be a language barrier, but I think it might be something else altogether.

Yes, Obviously an attempt is being made to create a rift between China and Pakistan -- by failing to protect chinese, we have contributed, that is helped those who want to create a rift betwen pakistan and china - you follow??

You think it is not the responsibility of the Fauj to protect this strategic relationship by protecting Chinese in Pakistan -- I disagree - lets leave it at that.

 

[Spring Onion]

Jana

I was beginning to think there must be a language barrier, but I think it might be something else altogether.

Yes, Obviously an attempt is being made to create a rift between China and Pakistan -- by failing to protect chinese, we have contributed, that is helped those who want to create a rift betwen pakistan and china - you follow??

You think it is not the responsibility of the Fauj to protect this strategic relationship by protecting Chinese in Pakistan -- I disagree - lets leave it at that.

Well Sir indeed you are wiser than me no doubt about it and agree that i may be some fool person posting arround in presence of so many wise people on this forum.

But i do understand whatever you are saying, still in the face of so many problems the country is dealing with these days, it is much difficult to police the movement of every Chines keeping in mind security reasons.

 

[muse]

Indeed, as if there were literally millions of Chinese running around?

Please try and understand that protection of people is an ordinary, primary function of government through it's coersive organs.

The chinese who were abducted were not abducted in big cities, they were abducted in remote areas in which an insufficient security was afforded them.

These abduction and in particular the inability of the Pakistani state to afford protection for the citizens of it's ally has caused major disruptions (read $$ lost)

 

[Kasrkin]

Anyway back to the topic, this Bajaur operation...I dont really buy it. The militants will just run away into other agencies and when the army leaves they will come back again and then its business as usual. Only the people will have suffered and maybe the governments PR will take a great beating...other than that I dont think these terrorist will stay for a proper fight. In fact I am pretty sure they must have already left...

I would therefore suggest a change in strategy, we should employ rapid deployment forces !!! Its gonna be risky ofcourse and is gonna need alot of helicopters and all that, but if I was in charge that is what i would do. Not only that but it was to be large scale i.e. operation in 3 to 4 corresponding agencies at once. We can do it, it will be a good test for our military and we will need this sort of test if we are to fight a war against India in the future.

Our military is getting too cumbersome for my liking, when it moves EVERYONE knows about it that there is an imminent operation. Everyone knows that Cobra helicopters are arriving long before they do. Our commandos? Frankly I have no idea what on earth they are up to. But I hope to see a proper special forces operation soon, hopefully one involving Betullah Mehsud.

 

[muse]

60 die in attacks on Qaeda strongholds in Pakistan
The Associated Press
Published: September 23, 2008

KHAAR, Pakistan: Security forces backed by helicopter gunships and artillery killed more than 60 insurgents in northwest Pakistan in offensives aimed at denying haven to militants from Al Qaeda and the Taliban, officials said Tuesday.

The attacks come amid intense U.S. pressure on Pakistan to crack down on militants, who are blamed for attacks both in Pakistan and on coalition forces in Afghanistan.

A truck bombing that killed 53 people over the weekend at a luxury hotel in the capital, Islamabad, underscored the threat extremists pose to Pakistan, a nuclear-armed nation.

More than 50 of the insurgents, along with one soldier, died in clashes since Monday in Kohat, a region that borders Pakistan's semiautonomous tribal areas, said an army spokesman, Major Murad Khan. He added that the military had retaken control of a key mountain tunnel from the insurgents.

In Bajaur, a nearby tribal region, security forces killed at least 10 militants during a continuing offensive there, said a government official, Iqbal Khattak.

That operation, which began in early August, has won praise from U.S. officials worried about rising violence in Pakistan and Afghanistan but has triggered retaliatory suicide bombings elsewhere in Pakistan. Some officials believe that the weekend bombing of the Marriott Hotel may have been a response to the Bajaur operations, which the army says have left more than 700 suspected militants dead.

Washington says the operation in Bajaur, rumored to be the hiding place of Osama bin Laden, the leader of Al Qaeda, appears to have reduced violence across the border in Afghanistan.

A Pakistani Army spokesman, Major General Athar Abbas, has said that Bajaur has been turned into a "mega-sanctuary" for militants and that the military is determined to flush them out.

But a rash of U.S. cross-border operations in neighboring tribal regions, including suspected missile strikes and a ground assault, underscore Washington's concerns that Pakistan is either unwilling or incapable of rooting out extremists on its own.

President Asif Ali Zardari of Pakistan had a meeting scheduled Tuesday with President George W. Bush on the sidelines of the United Nations General Assembly in New York, with the cross-border attacks sure to be a topic.

Zardari told NBC News in a recent interview that he welcomed intelligence help from the United States, but not its troops. "Give us the intelligence and we will do the job," he said. "It's better done by our forces than yours."

Experts and officials say that the Marriott truck bombing bore the hallmarks of Al Qaeda but that the Taliban may have assisted in its execution.

Late Monday, a Dubai-based TV channel, Al Arabiya, said it had received a tape from a shadowy group calling itself Fedayeen al-Islam, or Muslim Commandos, claiming responsibility for the Marriott bombing and calling on Pakistan to end its cooperation with the United States.

Separately, a spokesman for British Airways said Tuesday that it was "indefinitely" suspending its flights to and from Pakistan "in light of the current security situation." And the company that runs four visa application centers for the British Embassy in Pakistan has closed them pending a security review, said an embassy spokesman, Aidan Liddle.

 

[Ali.009]

Government is conducting a full scale opreation. Recently tribals have also joined government to fight these anti pak elements. They will soon be vanished.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Pakistani air strikes on militant tunnels kill 20
​

KHAR: Pakistani warplanes pounded a militant tunnel network in a Bajaur tribal region, killing 20 Taliban insurgents, local security officials said Wednesday.

‘At least 13 people were killed in repeated raids overnight in Rashakai, Khazana and Takhata towns where the militants had underground tunnels,’ a local security official said on condition of anonymity.

‘The bombing was very heavy and planes carried out repeated sorties’ until dawn on Wednesday, residents said.

Local officials said attacks resumed on Wednesday morning in two other towns in Bajaur, killing another seven militants.

The air strikes in Bajaur, a troubled region bordering Afghanistan, comes as part of a major army operation launched in August which has killed more than 800 people —most of them militants — and displaced an estimated 300,000 civilians.

DAWN.COM | NWFP | Pakistani air strikes on militant tunnels kill 20

 

[RabzonKhan]

It seems the “good Afghan-Talibans” have turned their guns on us.


Foreign Taliban lead fight against army in Bajaur

* Afghan commander leading Arab, Chechen, Uzbek, Afghan fighters

By Iqbal Khattak

PESHAWAR: Foreign Al Qaeda and Taliban fighters are ‘infiltrating’ into Bajaur from Afghanistan to join their colleagues in the crucial battle for survival in the face of an all-out military action, highly placed sources said on Tuesday.

“Foreign militants are leading the fight against the army. The army action is beyond the local combatants’ capacity and they need hardened and well-trained foreign militants,” said the sources on condition of anonymity.

They told Daily Times that the foreign Taliban and Al Qaeda – Arabs, Chechens, Uzbeks and Afghans – are being led by an Afghan commander Qari Ziaur Rehman.

“He (Rehman) is leading the fight and he is calling for reinforcement from across the Afghan border,” said the sources. “He is leading the whole show. He carries a lot of clout among foreign militants who mostly engage the Americans inside Afghanistan,” the sources said.

Tunnels: The sources said a network of tunnels was discovered in Tankkhata, Rashakai, Kerala and Loyesam, where the Taliban hold great sway. “They would fire at the forces from some house and then use the tunnel to escape the army’s return fire.

“These foreigners were interested in renting houses by the roadside, and paid Rs 20,000 to Rs 25,000 in rent per month. The purpose of renting houses along the roadside was to attack the forces if they launched action against the militants,” said the sources.

Pakistan Army’s Major Murad Khan confirmed to Daily Times that “We have received information about militants crossing into Bajaur from across the border and they are mostly foreigners.”

When asked whether the Pakistan Army had informed the coalition forces in Afghanistan about stopping militant infiltration from the Afghan side, he said, “I have no information.” The confirmation coincides with reports from Khar that most of the resistance was being offered by foreigners.

The army undertook a leading role in the operation from September 1, after paramilitary forces made a failed attempt to take over Loyesam from the militants on August 6.

Since then, 80 percent areas of Utmankhel, Salarzai and Khar tehsils have been ‘cleared of militants’, the sources said. However, tehsils Nawagai and Mamoond have not yet been secured against the militants. Unofficial reports say the government forces arrested some foreign militants during the action but their nationalities were not disclosed for security reasons.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

^^^ There were some reports today that Qari Ziaur Rehman was injured in combat and his deputy was seriously injured when an artillery shell landed close by.

But yeah, Bajaur has indeed become a litmus test in that it presents perhaps the hardest fight yet against entrenched and hardened fighters, who seem to have a pretty constant source of replenishment from other agencies and Afghanistan.