The Ball is in your Court Sir

[Donatello]

make peace with india...

You have to come in and BS......cannot live a day without trolling on PDF.

 

[Xeric]

May I dare make a counter proposal:

It is the government that should surrender all the rest of the budget to the Army, and let the Army come up with the solutions needed for the power and other ailing sectors.

I am willing to bet that my suggestion will be more effective than yours in dealing with the economic crises we are facing these days.

i guess i have a better argument; you stop the wastage of Rs 300 billion annually by PIA, Railways, Pak Steel etc and this coupled with another 50-60 billion which are returned by the military through its MilBus in shape of taxes, and voila, your military will running, fighting the militants in the northwest and keep india at bay within half the amount it actually require to run!

You guys can then keep your beaks shut and concentrate on more pressing issues affecting the country, no?

 

[Argus Panoptes]

i guess i have a better argument; you stop the wastage of Rs 300 billion annually by PIA, Railways, Pak Steel etc and this coupled with another 50-60 billion which are returned by the military through its MilBus in shape of taxes, and voila, your military will running, fighting the militants in the northwest and keep india at bay within half the amount it actually require to run!

You guys can then keep your beaks shut and concentrate on more pressing issues affecting the country, no?

In the same vein, Sir, the better strategy is to hand over PIA, Railways and Pak Steel to MilBus is totality too, resulting in Fauji Airlines, Fauji Railways and Fauji Folad, and presto, all problems solved with profitability all across the board. These ventures plus control over all the budget will make for a prosperous Pakistan in no time at all, leaving the beaks to chatter all they want.

As I said to FM17, my suggestions above are more likely to be successful than yours, Sir.

 

[EagleEyes]

@WebMaster

Publish on main page.. after edit??

Done. the article is now every where.

 

[Rajput_Pakistani]

All departments are pillars of state. If you try to find solution by cutting down on one department for the sake of other, you will end up damaging both in the long run. If one department is going down due to corruption / mismanagement it doesn't mean that you punish another efficient department which has nothing to do with the problems. I gave you few examples:

Last year in Punjab, PMLN government executed 3 major events. Laptop schemes, Youth festival and Metro bus. You know from where the finances came?

* All primary schools budget was utilized on laptops. Primary schools an already very neglected subject got nothing.
* Punjab was to host national games, the budget allocated for that games was spent on youth festival and the games were cancelled. You all know better then me the status of athletics in our country.

Lots of rumors are about Metro bus finance also, but as no PC1 of this project is present nor any tender and nor ay audit report, so no one actually knows the true stats.

Now for the sake of discussions. lets look at the budget of police of all 4 provinces.

(Note: It does not include Levis, FC and other Civilian forces which come under interior ministry. It also not include AJK and Gilgit Baltistan police. It also does not include pensions for police personals. It is also not my intention to downplay role of police. Its the backbone of our internal security but all of us know the inefficiencies of our police force)


Punjab Police
Strength: 170,000
Budget 2012-13: 62 billion

Sindh Police
Strength: 105,000
Budget 2012-13: 40 billion

KPK Police
Strength: 53000
Budget 2012-13: 24 billion

Balochistan Police
Strength: 32000
Budget 2012-13: 13 billion

Total Police Strength: 360000
Budget 2012-13: 139 billions

Now compare this with Pakistan Army budget. Police does not have to maintain armored corps and other expensive apparatus of army. The salary of policeman is almost double then a soldier. A policeman don't get any kind of benefits like health, education for his children. So where does all this money goes?

Now should i plug the leakages first or put more water in already leaking bucket?

 

[Nishan_101]

All departments are pillars of state. If you try to find solution by cutting down on one department for the sake of other, you will end up damaging both in the long run. If one department is going down due to corruption / mismanagement it doesn't mean that you punish another efficient department which has nothing to do with the problems. I gave you few examples:

Last year in Punjab, PMLN government executed 3 major events. Laptop schemes, Youth festival and Metro bus. You know from where the finances came?

* All primary schools budget was utilized on laptops. Primary schools an already very neglected subject got nothing.
* Punjab was to host national games, the budget allocated for that games was spent on youth festival and the games were cancelled. You all know better then me the status of athletics in our country.

Lots of rumors are about Metro bus finance also, but as no PC1 of this project is present nor any tender and nor ay audit report, so no one actually knows the true stats.

Now for the sake of discussions. lets look at the budget of police of all 4 provinces.

(Note: It does not include Levis, FC and other Civilian forces which come under interior ministry. It also not include AJK and Gilgit Baltistan police. It also does not include pensions for police personals. It is also not my intention to downplay role of police. Its the backbone of our internal security but all of us know the inefficiencies of our police force)


Punjab Police
Strength: 170,000
Budget 2012-13: 62 billion

Sindh Police
Strength: 105,000
Budget 2012-13: 40 billion

KPK Police
Strength: 53000
Budget 2012-13: 24 billion

Balochistan Police
Strength: 32000
Budget 2012-13: 13 billion

Total Police Strength: 360000
Budget 2012-13: 139 billions

Now compare this with Pakistan Army budget. Police does not have to maintain armored corps and other expensive apparatus of army. The salary of policeman is almost double then a soldier. A policeman don't get any kind of benefits like health, education for his children. So where does all this money goes?

Now should i plug the leakages first or put more water in already leaking bucket?

I think the need is to provide the Police men and their families with proper living and other facilities along with increase there numbers by double digit and in Balochistan there should be at least 300,000 men.

 

[fatman17]

Nice piece @fatman17 sir. I'm just wondering what makes you think the Pakistani military would even entertain this notion as for most of its history it has been entirely self-serving. As has been pointed out over the last few days and weeks- the military is having a pretty cushy time of things, they are not experiencing the "loadshedding", they are not having to pay certain bills (railways), they have their own industries (textiles and agro) from which they get additional revenue. Do you really think anyone in the Pakistani military would now consider this request when they have sat by and accepted this state of affairs for how many years now? What has changed? Why now would they stick their necks out? As cliche as it is to say concerning Pakistan- "all countries have armies, but here, an army has a country."


If this was ever read by the PA, I see that your well meaning words would simply fall on deaf ears.

whereas i dont fully agree with your summary, my point was simple - actions speak louder than words when referring to the COAS statement which i have quoted. there is a precedent to this. when the USD800mill was released under CSF funds for military expenses in the WoT by the US, the CoAS deferred the entire amount to the civilian govt. so it can happen...

 

[fatman17]

Pakistan raises annual defence budget by 10 percent

By Agence France-Presse on Thursday, June 13th, 2013



Pakistan’s new government announced Wednesday a 10 percent increase in defence spending a week after taking office, despite a crippling budget deficit of 8.8 percent.

The budget for fiscal year 2013-14, which begins July 1, comes against a backdrop of weak economic growth, high inflation, dwindling foreign exchange reserves and unprecedented power cuts.

But the new budget earmarked 627 billion rupees ($6.3 billion) for defence, a 10 percent increase compared to 570 billion rupees in the outgoing year, ending June 30.

Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif took office last week after winning the May 11 elections, which marked an historic transition of democratic power in a country ruled half its life by the military.

The military is the most powerful institution in Pakistan. Sharif has in the past had troubled relations with the army, which in 1999 deposed him in a bloodless coup.

Finance minister Ishaq Dar told the national assembly that the government would clear $5 billion in circular debt from the energy sector within the next 60 days.

“This will greatly help minimise power cuts in the country,” Dar said, giving no details on how the government would find the money to pay the bills.

Years of mismanagement, under-investment and corruption cause blackouts of up to 20 hours a day in blistering summer heat, when temperatures reach up to 50 degrees Celsius (122 Fahrenheit).

Pakistan is still paying off a $11.3 billion International Monetary Fund loan from 2008. Analysts believe the government must return to the lender to stave off a balance of payments crisis.

“Our government has chalked out a comprehensive reforms programme for economic development, which will control inflation, build the revolutionary change in the country’s infrastructure and provide employment to youth,” Dar said.

Again, he provided no precise details.

He promised that the government would reduce the budget deficit by 2.5 percent in the forthcoming year to 6.3 percent and to four percent within three years.

“The key point of our budget this year is to reduce the fiscal deficit and prevent the national economy from being adversely affected,” the minister said.

On Tuesday, he unveiled figures that showed the outgoing government had fallen below target in virtually every economic indicator.

Dar said GDP in the outgoing fiscal year was 3.6 percent compared to a target four percent.

The government has set a new target growth of 4.4 percent for the coming fiscal year.

 

[Xeric]

whereas i dont fully agree with your summary, my point was simple - actions speak louder than words when referring to the COAS statement which i have quoted. there is a precedent to this. when the USD800mill was released under CSF funds for military expenses in the WoT by the US, the CoAS deferred the entire amount to the civilian govt. so

Just to add some more facts reagrading CSF:

COAS also informed the forum that the often "mis"quoted figure of US $ 13-15 Billion utilised by the Army in last ten years is misplaced. Under the head of Coalition Support Fund (CSF), against a total sum of US $ 13 Billion expected from the US, only US $ 8.6 Billion have been received by the Government of Pakistan. The Government has further made available only US $ 1.4 Billion to the Army over last ten years. A relatively smaller amount has gone to Navy and PAF as well. The rest i.e. approximately US $ 6 Billion, have been utilised by the Government of Pakistan for budgetary support which ultimately means the people of Pakistan (The figures quoted here have been reconciled with the Ministry of Finance).

source:
http://thenews.jang.com.pk/NewsDetail.aspx?ID=16793

:: ISPR :: Inter Services Public Relations - PAKISTAN

http://tribune.com.pk/story/186278/reading-the-militarys-message/

i.e. PakMilitary, in addition to the assistance given by it as mentioned in post# 14, had also provided the National exchequer with another US $ 6 billion out of its share of CSF - monies which it had expended while it was in state of war (ops in FATA), and thus had to be recouped because defence budget can only sustain and maintain the military for 1 (financial) year provided it is not fighting.

So when $6 billion (approx Rs 500 billion) couldnt 'help' Pakistan(i government), i doubt these mere Rs 122 billion would any wonders.


Still, sir Fat, @Argus Panoptes ' idea is not bad either
@Abingdonboy

 

[fatman17]

Just to add some more facts reagrading CSF:




i.e. PakMilitary, in addition to the assistance given by it as mentioned in post# 14, had also provided the National exchequer with another US $ 6 billion out of its share of CSF - monies which it had expended while it was in state of war (ops in FATA), and thus had to be recouped because defence budget can only sustain and maintain the military for 1 (financial) year provided it is not fighting.

So when $6 billion (approx Rs 500 billion) couldnt 'help' Pakistan(i government), i doubt these mere Rs 122 billion would any wonders.


Still, sir Fat, @Argus Panoptes ' idea is not bad either
@Abingdonboy

we are fighting 'wrong perceptions' created by our own media and press - things that the public dosnt want to hear and know...

 

[jaibi]

@fatman17

This seems good in thought but actually I do not think it would help. See, the problem with the Pakistani mindset when it comes to economics is very simple: the government thinks that the stimulation of a selected class a.k.a. the 'business' class would allow for economic growth but that is not so. The only way that a modern economy can grow is if the government secures the conditions that allow for private businesses to grow. For example, the government now taxed basic commodities and given stipends to the business class, yet, I, as an investor would now hesitate to push my money into the system because I must cover my cost of living.

The trends show that almost everyone in this country now wants to have a second source of earning due to the condition of the market now and most of these everyones are middle, lower classes. For that, that capital to be pulled into the system, the cost of living must decrease so that the people do not have to save crazy.

The government or institutional implementation and control of the economic system should be bare minimum and focused on the instrumental ease of economics. That's the only way that economies grow e.g. India, China even. Our old mentality needs to change and thus no matter what resources we have unless we use it right there would be no change and this includes the energy crisis.

 

[datalibdaz]

May I dare make a counter proposal:

It is the government that should surrender all the rest of the budget to the Army, and let the Army come up with the solutions needed for the power and other ailing sectors.

I am willing to bet that my suggestion will be more effective than yours in dealing with the economic crises we are facing these days.

Please do so...Would like to hear from you...You are very right about your proposal...Army are very professional in their work and take it seriously...

 

[Xeric]

@fatman17

Sir just to ask, was your writeup a satire?

 

[somebozo]

All of that money put into our backward can spur great talent and minds to work. Stop buying boxes from abroad.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

@fatman17

Sir just to ask, was your writeup a satire?

Sir @Xeric Does the sun rise in the East?